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  1. #1
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    The holes in Tracey's theory

    OK, I know it isn't actually "Tracey's" theory, but I mean the Helgoth + Mr X theory.

    At first viewing, this theory was very interesting. However, I've been through the documentary with a fine tooth comb now and I've mulled it over and over ...... and I have some serious questions about it.

    No Helgoth forensics
    The first is that there is no forensic evidence which puts Michael helgoth at the crime scene - no DNA, no fingerprints. All evidence is based upon the testimony of a shady individual called John Kenady AND of course the fact that Michael Helgoth had Hi-Tec boots. So did thousands of others though and the footprint cannot be dated. Add to that the fact that Burke Ramsey said he owned Hi-Tecs and this particular clue becomes weaker still.

    John Kenady
    Kenady is not squeaky clean. He has a long rap sheet and may have been motivated by thoughts of a nice fat reward. However, despite what Candy says about Kenady having had a head injury, he did not come across in the documentary as incompetent in any way. Far from it. Kenady was alert, expressive and he spoke well - which is more than could be said for the other individuals interviewed for the documentary.

    Helgoth's suicide
    The Ramsey investigators think it was murder because:-
    Helgoth was right handed and the shot was fired into his left side. Not only that, but it was fired through a pillow - something which would have meant an even bigger stretch of the arm to achieve. They questioned why a suicide would try to muffle the shot (valid question). They also raised the point that most suicides shoot themselves through the ear or mouth (quick). There were signs that Helgoth didn't die immediately because he had blood on his hand which he transferred to his forehead. The pistol was lying to Helgoth's right, yet he was shot on the left. Finally, there was no suicide note.

    OK, they suspect that Helgoth/Mr X got scared after Alex Hunter's "finger wagging speech" (to quote Kenady) the day before and that maybe Mr X thought Helgoth would spill the beans and so he disposed of him.

    Problems: Why did Mr X not finish Helgoth off? If it was supposed to look like suicide, why did he not shoot him in the head and place the pistol in his hand? Mr X is supposed to be one of a partnership of two who like writing phoney ransom notes. Why didn't he write a phoney suicide note? He could have had Helgoth confess to JonBenet's killing saying he acted alone.

    Also, the friends of Helgoth who were interviewed in the documentary described him as a bold, sadistic type who wrung the necks of little kittens and wanted to crack a human skull. He fired guns at people - missing them by fractions. He dressed in black and stalked people at night, peering in their windows and responding boldly when challenged. His former girlfriend had a restraining order against him.

    Does this sound like someone who would get cold feet?

    Mr X
    This guy is thought to have done some work on the Ramsey house BEFORE the Ramseys moved in. He is described as very scary. he threatened to cut off his girlfriend's ear and he tried to kill his ex-wife. He has convictions for violence, drugs and sexual assault against a child. He sounds like a good suspect for the Ramsey murder.

    However, the Tracey documentary is misleading. It makes the point that this guy has disappeared - the implication being that he killed Helgoth and vanished - yet the documentary goes on to implicate him in a sexual assault on a 12 year old girl which took place 9 months after JonBenet's death. So when exactly did he disappear? Doesn't sound as though he was in a hurry!

    We know that Mr X bred wolf dogs and that there were two different coloured animal hairs found in the basement where JonBenet was found and that these match the colour of his wolf dogs. Now, how would investigators know that if this guy has never been interviewed and has disappeared? Helgoth bought two of these dogs and the documentary showed one of them romping about in a home video. It was a multi coloured dog - browns and blacks and light tan. Good chance of finding some hairs which were similar in colour to the animal hairs on Jonbenet. They would need to do lab tests to verify that these hairs came from the same dog lines.

    The BIGGEST bugaboo with Mr X is his physical appearance. I will attempt to post part of a screen capture of an arrest sheet for this man which describes him as 6'2", 180 lbs with brown hair and brown eyes. He's obviously a big lad. The mother of the 12 year old whom the Ramsey investigators believe was also assaulted by Mr X described the assailant as about 5'7" with blonde hair and a prominent chin. Now, hair can be died/streaked etc, clothes can hide a person's build - but one thing we cannot disguise is height. A person of 6'2" is tall - a man of 5'7" is below average height! The mother also described their intruder as being between 20-30. Mr X was older than this but again, age is something that we are not always good at guessing.

    Hi-Tecs and mould
    The Ramsey investigators also showed us a graphic of the mould on the ramsey basement floor and stated that some debris wedged in Helgoth's boot logo was the same colour.

    Problems: Helgoth had been wearing those boots for 2 months since JonBenet's death. It was winter and there was snow. Snow has a cleaning effect on footwear but apart from that, Helgoth's junkyard was also shown in the documentary and it was very muddy - a reddish coloured mud similar in colour to the debris on the boot. Only lab tests would prove the presence of Ramsey mould. There is no suggestion that Smit, Bennett or the Ramsey investigators have had this done.

    The Ramsey Investigators
    Now this is a bit bizarre. Seemingly, these guys have been working on the case since the beginning. However, the Boulder Police apparently tried to hire PIs Ollie Gray & San Augustin the "day after the murder" in "order to pursue the parents" but the PIs "declined". That strikes me as mighty strange. The day after the murder the PIs would have known nothing at all about the murder so it is very odd that they would turn down work because they wouldn't have had time to form any kind of opinion about the Ramseys or the BPD's behaviour in the Ramsey case! One day after the murder there was NO reason to suspect that the police were unreasonably pursuing the parents - at that stage they would simply have been following normal protocol to start at the centre and work outwards. This small fact alone makes me think "hmmmmm".

    Then there is the "fact" that they have been working for the DA's office on the case - yet they are not bound by any confidentiality?????? The documentary alsoa stated that they are now working on the case as "unpaid volunteers".

    Do these guys have access to the case files? Have they ever had access to the case files?? Do they have any jurisdiction at all?

    I am inclined to think not. I am inclined to think that they were hired by the Ramseys and that the DA's office has hired them to do some specific jobs - follow some specific leads WITHOUT the benefit of seeing the police files themselves. I would imagine that Lou Smit has talked to them at length BEFORE he was rehired by the DA and I'd be very interested to know what Smit & Bennett's thoughts are on Helgoth and Mr X.
    This is only my opinion

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  2. #2
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    This is the image of the document:-

    It says:-

    Height : 6'2" HAIR: Brown
    Weight: 180 EYES: Brown
    RACE/SEX: White male

    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




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  3. #3
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    Jayelles,

    I admittedly don't know a whole lot about DNA but your points on the common sense aspect of this are really well thought out.

    In case you haven't been told, I want you to know that I for one, appreciate all the hard work you put into this case, transcripts and all, explanations, graphics, and everything else.

    Amazing work and I want to thank you for sharing it all with us. Not many of us are willing and/or able to put the efforts you have into it and I don't think you get thanked enough.

    Bravo to you and THANK YOU!

    BTW, I didn't want to post on your DNA thread, so having already stated that my knowledge of DNA, etc. is minimal, could you explain what you think the DNA documents translate to?
    Thanks
    This is my opinion only
    This post may not be copied to any other forum

    God Bless America

  4. #4
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    Thanks Barbara!

    BTW, I didn't want to post on your DNA thread, so having already stated that my knowledge of DNA, etc. is minimal, could you explain what you think the DNA documents translate to?
    Do you mean the document with the blacked out names? That is from the document quoted in Steve Thomas book where they say that if the foreign DNA comes from one person then it doesn't match the following people....

    Was it Cellmark Labs?
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbara
    Jayelles,

    I admittedly don't know a whole lot about DNA but your points on the common sense aspect of this are really well thought out.

    In case you haven't been told, I want you to know that I for one, appreciate all the hard work you put into this case, transcripts and all, explanations, graphics, and everything else.

    Amazing work and I want to thank you for sharing it all with us. Not many of us are willing and/or able to put the efforts you have into it and I don't think you get thanked enough.

    Bravo to you and THANK YOU!

    BTW, I didn't want to post on your DNA thread, so having already stated that my knowledge of DNA, etc. is minimal, could you explain what you think the DNA documents translate to?
    Thanks
    Ditto what Barbara said!!!! I am impressed with your posts....you go girl!
    -
    My opinion and nothing but my opinion.

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    FEMA's link for Emergency Supplies list below or what you need to survive for three days in case help is not immediately available to you.
    http://www.ready.gov/document/family-supply-list

    You can also purchase a weather radio which will inform you of severe weather even if your electricity goes out. Runs on batteries of course.

  6. #6
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    Me Too, I Think Nice Work, Jayelles.

    I'm glad you brought out the part about Helgoth being shot on the wrong side. I'd had it backwards, thought he was left handed and shot on the right. I'm sure your version is the correct one. You worked on it more than I did.

  7. #7
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    Interesting......

    Did they say what kind of work Mr. X did in the house?

    About the shady characters---I wouldn't rule them out---what kind of friends do you think these two hung out with, considering their character?

    You posted:

    "Also, the friends of Helgoth who were interviewed in the documentary described him as a bold, sadistic type who wrung the necks of little kittens and wanted to crack a human skull. He fired guns at people - missing them by fractions. He dressed in black and stalked people at night, peering in their windows and responding boldly when challenged. His former girlfriend had a restraining order against him.

    Does this sound like someone who would get cold feet?"

    I don't know about cold feet---but it sounds like someone that could participate in a scheme like this---and perhaps got cold feet when the plan was unravelling....or when he realized it was really happening.

    Did the documentary say anything about drug use by either one?

    I'm not convinced they have Helgoth's DNA---if he wasn't on the radar screen, his blood samples/tissues may have been discarded---there's a timeframe for keeping them in the Coroner's office---but if it's a suicide, they may not have to keep them very long.

    RE: the wrap sheet--I can make everything out but the last word in the second column--can anyone read it?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai
    Did they say what kind of work Mr. X did in the house?

    About the shady characters---I wouldn't rule them out---what kind of friends do you think these two hung out with, considering their character?
    Not sure that I understand what you mean about ruling them out? Ruling them out of involvement in the murder? I don't think there was any suggestion that they were involved in JonBenet's murder.

    You posted:

    "Also, the friends of Helgoth who were interviewed in the documentary described him as a bold, sadistic type who wrung the necks of little kittens and wanted to crack a human skull. He fired guns at people - missing them by fractions. He dressed in black and stalked people at night, peering in their windows and responding boldly when challenged. His former girlfriend had a restraining order against him.

    Does this sound like someone who would get cold feet?"

    I don't know about cold feet---but it sounds like someone that could participate in a scheme like this---and perhaps got cold feet when the plan was unravelling....or when he realized it was really happening.
    They didn't say what kind of work Mr X "may" have done in the house. Just that he "may" have done some work in the house "before" the Ramseys ever lived there. Much of Tracey's documentary was "may have" and "perhaps".

    Helgoth was portrayed only as a bold, cold and callous character. There was no attempt to portray him as likely to get cold feet. Kenady said he was depressed before his death - but the only reason given for this was because his "killer deal" didn't pay off and he didn't get the money he was expecting.

    Did the documentary say anything about drug use by either one?
    No voice commentary on it, but a camera shot of Mr X's arrest/charge sheet showed he had convictions for drugs.


    I'm not convinced they have Helgoth's DNA---if he wasn't on the radar screen, his blood samples/tissues may have been discarded---there's a timeframe for keeping them in the Coroner's office---but if it's a suicide, they may not have to keep them very long.
    They have Helgoth's DNA according to Tracey. They said that they took DNA samples at his post-mortem.

    RE: the wrap sheet--I can make everything out but the last word in the second column--can anyone read it?
    Maikai - I have typed what it says above the graphic. It says:-

    Height : 6'2" HAIR: Brown
    Weight: 180 EYES: Brown
    RACE/SEX: White male

    The "RACE/SEX : White male" bit is actually underneath the "EYES: BROWN" bit on the sheet, but I couldn't get it to tab over when I posted it.

    What do you think about Mr X and the Dancewest assault (that is what the Ramsey investigators call the attack on the 12 year old)?

    Many people know Mr X's real name. jameson is threatening to expose it. I *really* hope she does. He can't be that hard to find. I wonder what he did with his dogs? Or if he's still breeding them.
    This is only my opinion

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  9. #9
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    Here is why Tracey is an A$$

    Before the documentary aired, I posted a commentary on some of the pre-airing reviews.

    I posted this:-

    They believe that the unnamed person also murdered Michale Helgoth and another young girl.
    This came from one of the reviews that I read. jameson sent it to Michael Tracey who responded with this:-

    WHOSE THE OTHER GIRL? WRONG AGAIN
    The other girl was Alie Berrelez. Here is the quote from the transcript with the accompanying graphic:-

    Narrator Detectives found out something else about Helgoth that caught their attention. It was among his videos. What they contained, they say, is significant. They found not only a lot of violent scenes like this (film clip of lone gunman shooting at crowds of young people), but numerous images of children including this one from the Disney family film ‘The Santa Clause’ showing a little girl being awoken by Father Christmas on Christmas Eve. JonBenét was awoken by someone on Christmas Night.

    John San Augustin In a lot of these types of investigations you see that these criminals hide their activity within media. What they’ll do is, they’ll play a movie and then somewhere in the middle of the movie, they will put their piece of their criminal activity within that video and when you look at the Helgoth video, you know, here you have a movie that’s playing along and then all of a sudden you have news coverage of an unsolved murder here in Colorado

    (News 4 news clip).

    Narrator The news story that Helgoth had kept, told of the abduction and murder of a five year old girl. It occurred near Boulder three years before JonBenét’s killing. It too remains unsolved.

    News Reader A child’s body was found stuffed inside a duffel bag in Deer Creek Canyon yesterday.........

    This is a screen capture of the news clip hidden in Helgoth's video. It is undoubtedly about Alie Berrelez. The news reader is describing how the child's body was found in a duffel bag in Deer Creek Canyon.....


    From the commentary, the clear implication from San Augustin is that they suspect the same people of involvement in Alie's murder as they do JonBenet's. Why else would he make the point about criminals hiding THEIR activity in media?

    This is how the journalist who wrote the review interpreted it and it's how I interpret it. Yet Tracey asked the question "What other girl?". (EH?????????)

    http://www.alie.com/main.htm

    Last edited by Jayelles; 07-02-2004 at 06:29 AM.
    This is only my opinion

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  10. #10
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    On Tracey being an A$$ contd

    Of course we could be arguing semantics here. Tracey is obviously wary of accusing "Mr X" of Alie's murder (as well as JonBenet's and Helgoth's). Remember Mr X is still alive and has been charged with none of these crimes. That is why Mr X isn't being named.

    BUT....... let's think about this. If we are arguing semantics and Tracey is actually accusing only Helgoth of involvment in Alie Berrelez' brutal murder, then that undermines the entire Helgoth/Mr X theory - because it means that Helgoth did it before. In which case, he is even LESS likely to have taken cold feet afterwards. If he murdered Alie three years before JonBenet, then he must have liked it to want to do it again.

    The Tracey theory hinges on the possibility that Helgoth got twitchy and that Mr X killed him to stop him spilling the beans. Yet we are to believe that Helgoth may have already been a cold blooded child killer long before Mr X.....
    This is only my opinion

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  11. #11
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    The further investigation of Michael Helgoth and his alleged accomplice, Mr.X, in the murder of JonBenet is ludicrous.

    John, Patsy, and Burke have been caught in lie after lie in the coverup they've been carrying out since Day One.

    Not in a million years would the Ramsey family lie and cover up for Helgoth or Mr. X. The Ramseys would repeatedly lie, obfuscate, drag their feet, mislead, and refuse to cooperate in the investigation for only ONE person -- a Ramsey.

    JMO

  12. #12
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    helgoth and mr. x

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    The further investigation of Michael Helgoth and his alleged accomplice, Mr.X, in the murder of JonBenet is ludicrous.

    For a change I agree with you on this one. The more conspiratorial is it , the less likely it could have happened. First 2 people, then 1 murder, then another(Helgoth), then maybe yet another?

    People who kill themselves usually have significant mental difficulties. From what has been said about Helgoth, he sounded like an angry man who didn't attempt positive relationships. Many people take their lives because their connections with others and life in general isn't working. He wasn't going to end it 7 weeks after the crime when the BPD had not even contacted him. More likely was that he chose valentine's day because it symbolized love. Its possible he left the boots and stungun out to be seen as a cryptic message, or maybe they provided part of his identity and so were close by.
    This is my opinion, and change is good.

  13. #13
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    Helgoth's suicide

    I'd like to know what brought about a verdict of suicide. If, as Ramsey PIs are saying, the trajectory of the gun would be virtually impossible, would that not raise questions at the time - especially in the light of the lack of suicide note. I know that not all suicides leave notes, but wouldn't that fact alone at least ring warning bells?
    This is only my opinion

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  14. #14
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    Bottom line:

    We cannot in good faith believe anything reported by the Ramsey PIs. It's unfortunate but true.

    At the time of this investigation, Hal Haddon was running the show. Hal Haddon and his law firm are VERY powerful people with connections running far beyond Boulder all the way to the White House (at that time; I don't know about now). Nothing incriminating to the Ramseys was going to be revealed.

    The whole thing is orchestrated and choreographed by Haddon's firm. With that in mind, the whole thing stinks of corruption and cover up.

    If there was anything concrete to the whole Helgoth, etc. theory (or any other for that matter), it would have been front page news many years ago with Hunter making public statements written for him by the Haddon firm. Even the Governor now keeps his mouth shut.

    To believe otherwise is naive.
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  15. #15
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    It happens all the time....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    I'd like to know what brought about a verdict of suicide. If, as Ramsey PIs are saying, the trajectory of the gun would be virtually impossible, would that not raise questions at the time - especially in the light of the lack of suicide note. I know that not all suicides leave notes, but wouldn't that fact alone at least ring warning bells?
    A homicide is made to look like a suicide---good police work will uncover this. No one cared to really investigate Helgoth's suicide as a murder possibility---he was cremated. I wonder about his surviving family members--if they even had an inkling if he could have been involved---if they did, would they want this known? Or buried with Helgoth? The boots and stun gun alone should have raised flags to look further. It's much easier to call it a suicide, and close the case. I think the potential lawsuit the Ramseys could have had against the City of Boulder alone, had some bearing on the investigation. If no one is ever charged the Ramseys could forever be suspects, with no grounds for a lawsuit.

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