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  1. #61

    Mony

    Quote Originally Posted by annemc2 View Post
    Looks like MONY still exists as AXA Equitable.

    And the p with line is medspeak for "after"; the c with line means "with."

    I'm thinking ACE = Anna Christian Eiffee

    The 2 L's - now that has me stumped.
    ~

    2L's = Loans?


    The MONY family of companies, which became wholly owned subsidiaries of AXA Financial, Inc., on July 8, 2004, includes MONY Life Insurance Company and MONY Life Insurance Company of America.
    The links and information below will help you find information and resources formerly available at MONY.com.

    MONY clients can access policy and contract information and execute online transactions by registering and/or logging in using the login box on this page. Those who had already registered on MONY.com's My MONY system can use that ID/password combination here.MONY International

    http://www.axa-equitable.com/axa/mony.html

    ~

    MONY: Toll Free Telephone within the U.S.A. 1-866-631-1975 if anyone wants to give a shot at calling and asking a question or two regarding accounts from the 60'-70's.

    Old accounts could be archived however I've known people who work for companies for years... who knows, the Rep may still be around tho longshot!

    It may take and LE to get information on a missing person's case tho, but...doesn't hurt to ask MONY.
    Anna Christian Waters Web Page
    www.searchingforanna.com

    Anna Christian Water's WS Forum
    www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=104

    Search FB: Anna Christian Waters
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/annachristianwaters/


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    I'm not sure we need a seperate thread for squib notes at this time but we can keep the option open.

    I'm not sure if members realize by clicking on the paper clip icon to the right of the thread title it gives the direct link to attachments.

    Here is the link for the attachments, including the squib notes, from the BFH thread part 1.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/mis...hments&t=50434

    Does this help?
    Wow. Thanks Cubby. I didn't know about that and yes, it does help.


  3. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    FL
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    5,642
    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    ~

    2L's = Loans?


    The MONY family of companies, which became wholly owned subsidiaries of AXA Financial, Inc., on July 8, 2004, includes MONY Life Insurance Company and MONY Life Insurance Company of America.
    The links and information below will help you find information and resources formerly available at MONY.com.

    MONY clients can access policy and contract information and execute online transactions by registering and/or logging in using the login box on this page. Those who had already registered on MONY.com's My MONY system can use that ID/password combination here.MONY International

    http://www.axa-equitable.com/axa/mony.html

    ~

    MONY: Toll Free Telephone within the U.S.A. 1-866-631-1975 if anyone wants to give a shot at calling and asking a question or two regarding accounts from the 60'-70's.

    Old accounts could be archived however I've known people who work for companies for years... who knows, the Rep may still be around tho longshot!

    It may take and LE to get information on a missing person's case tho, but...doesn't hurt to ask MONY.
    I have no problem calling anyone, Annasmom can testify to that! Would some of you just give me some questions that need to be asked? I will call after Memorial Day, June 1st and post how it goes......


  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by annemc2 View Post
    Looks like MONY still exists as AXA Equitable.

    And the p with line is medspeak for "after"; the c with line means "with."

    I'm thinking ACE = Anna Christian Eiffee

    The 2 L's - now that has me stumped.
    There's only one L, but it almost positively means Lloyd's of London, since that's the firm he had the big insurance policy with.


  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    176
    Contact MONY after final arrangements with Lloyds have been made. (Jan 1973)
    (Most likely a reference to making sure Lloyds has accepted and processed the insurance application before applying to Mony. Applying to 2 different companies at the same time could result in one being denied. The contact date planned for Mony as being Jan 1973.)

    Apply for $100,000 ACE with as Beneficiary. ('eneficiary' scratched out)
    (Apply for a $110k insurance policy with Mony with Anna Christian Effie as beneficiary in Jan 1973.)

    3 months later negotiate increase to 5 still with ACE.
    (In April 1973 apply to have the premium increased to $500k, with Anna still as beneficiary)

    3 months later change to B.
    (In July 1973 change the beneficiary.)

    Thoughts-

    This looks like a pretty calculated way to use Anna in order to increase one of their life insurance policies. It doesn't seem like it could be for Anna, since you can't be the beneficiary of your own policy. It is possible that applying for life insurance with a child as beneficiary would be less suspicious than with a beneficiary that is a grown man who is not related to you- but after a couple of months, changing the benefciary would not be questioned.

    Considering how paranoid they were, it's odd that if they had nothing to do with Anna's disappearance they would risk possibly dying between Jan 1973 and July 1973 and having Anna get the money, unless they knew she wouldn't be around to collect it.

    At the same time, based on their use of Anna, and their love of money, if they had planned to kill her, they appear devious enough to have set up some insurance fraud to have collected from life insurance on her. Although I often have wondered if maybe something went wrong in their plan, and something did happen to Anna (which it appears GW might have been able to make 'disappear'), their 'PLAN' did not originally have that in mind.

    LLOYDS, LONDON
    $100,000
    $175
    6/12/1972
    6/12/1973

    AM HOME ASSOC
    $500,000
    7/20/1973

    I'm guessing this is what they did instead? AM Home Assoc instead of Mony?


    Is there any explanation for why (other than travel), insurance was purchased almost monthly for such a long time? What happened to all those policies after each of their deaths? I'm guessing some of GWs were voided by a suicide clause?
    __________________

    I've been lurking here for 3 years- this is my first post.
    Last edited by glorybug; 06-02-2010 at 02:41 AM.


  6. #66
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    I called MONY, and spoke with a representative. She told me that not being family or person involved in the policy I am not going to get that information.

    Annasmom will have to sign the letter, we can write it, but it has to be sign by you. Do we have a policy number? or just notes?

    I would also say, that your new FBI agent could get much farther than us, I would think.

    I can pen the letter or you can have the agent inquire.

    Policy Holders Services
    P.O. Box 4720
    Syracuse N.Y. 13221

    Let me know how to handle this. She said if the policy is still enforced they will have a record, or if it is microfilmed there will be a record. She doesn't know until they get all the names involved, a policy number, dates, things that will aid them in finding the information.


  7. #67
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    May 2005
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    1,701
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    I called MONY, and spoke with a representative. She told me that not being family or person involved in the policy I am not going to get that information.

    Annasmom will have to sign the letter, we can write it, but it has to be sign by you. Do we have a policy number? or just notes?

    I would also say, that your new FBI agent could get much farther than us, I would think.

    I can pen the letter or you can have the agent inquire.

    Policy Holders Services
    P.O. Box 4720
    Syracuse N.Y. 13221

    Let me know how to handle this. She said if the policy is still enforced they will have a record, or if it is microfilmed there will be a record. She doesn't know until they get all the names involved, a policy number, dates, things that will aid them in finding the information.
    SherlockJr has all the insurance policies, so I do not have access to the numbers right now. Of course I'd be glad to sign the letter, but we need the information first.


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  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annasmom View Post
    SherlockJr has all the insurance policies, so I do not have access to the numbers right now. Of course I'd be glad to sign the letter, but we need the information first.
    Wonderful! I didn't know if there were any actual policies or not, but I can get with Sherlock and pen off a letter, and send to you to sign. I don't know what we will get from this, but I feel as if we need to at least try.


  10. #69
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    Jun 2010
    Posts
    176
    Who was paying for rent and bills for Brody when Margaret was ill and in the hospital, and Brody didn't work? Had Brody already managed to get GW to pay for everything? Did he meet GW in time to get him to start paying for everything instead of Margaret? Who was paying his bills before Margaret?

    Any idea whether Margaret had a life insurance policy? If so, was Brody somehow able to collect on it? Since they weren't married, and she supposedly had no family, would there be records from the county showing who handled her estate?

    Does GWs check registry show him directly paying for any/all of Brody's bills/rent? Or is it likely that cash withdrawals were just handed over to Brody?

    Does it appear that Brody never had his own checking account (he had a safe deposit box- can you get those without an account?), or that he had one and GW ust erased all paper trail to it?

    Do docs show that instead of increasing the LL ins to $500k in July, because they wanted Brody identification or proof of credit, he cancelled and got a $500k policy elsewhere? Considering GWs line of work, couldn't he have just stolen the identity of any of the men who died in the hospital for Brody? Use the DC info to request a BC, and then have Brody use that? It was not mandatory back then to have a SS# for anything. He could have used the dead person's BC to open a checking acct, get an ID, etc. It makes no sense to insist that an insurance company use a 'photo' as ID to allow Brody to collect funds. How was he planning to collect the funds? over $500k in unmarked one dollar bills? Makes no sense. How was he going to get that money and then not pay taxes? Or pay taxes with no SS#?

    It seems like the smart thing to do would have been to have just gotten him a new identity.


  11. #70
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    May 2005
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    1,701
    Quote Originally Posted by glorybug View Post
    Who was paying for rent and bills for Brody when Margaret was ill and in the hospital, and Brody didn't work? Had Brody already managed to get GW to pay for everything? Did he meet GW in time to get him to start paying for everything instead of Margaret? Who was paying his bills before Margaret?

    Any idea whether Margaret had a life insurance policy? If so, was Brody somehow able to collect on it? Since they weren't married, and she supposedly had no family, would there be records from the county showing who handled her estate?

    Does GWs check registry show him directly paying for any/all of Brody's bills/rent? Or is it likely that cash withdrawals were just handed over to Brody?

    Does it appear that Brody never had his own checking account (he had a safe deposit box- can you get those without an account?), or that he had one and GW ust erased all paper trail to it?

    Do docs show that instead of increasing the LL ins to $500k in July, because they wanted Brody identification or proof of credit, he cancelled and got a $500k policy elsewhere? Considering GWs line of work, couldn't he have just stolen the identity of any of the men who died in the hospital for Brody? Use the DC info to request a BC, and then have Brody use that? It was not mandatory back then to have a SS# for anything. He could have used the dead person's BC to open a checking acct, get an ID, etc. It makes no sense to insist that an insurance company use a 'photo' as ID to allow Brody to collect funds. How was he planning to collect the funds? over $500k in unmarked one dollar bills? Makes no sense. How was he going to get that money and then not pay taxes? Or pay taxes with no SS#?

    It seems like the smart thing to do would have been to have just gotten him a new identity.
    "Makes no sense" could apply to most of what we know about these people. I wish I could answer some of your questions, but I only know the answer to two. The public guardian was responsible for Margaret, since she was in the state hospital. I think Brody had power of attorney. Waters almost certainly bought clothing and gifts for Brody, but it is difficult to know how the bills were paid.

    I meant to welcome you to Anna's search and to thank you for your questions, but am just now getting to it. Thank you.


  12. #71
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    Jun 2010
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    176
    Random thoughts.

    Several people have brought up the possibility that both M and Brody were gay, and were essentially covering for each other. I'm not sure I buy that. In my experience with both gay men and women does not back this up. My experience is that I've known several gay men who have become fixated on or worshiping of a straight woman, and the same with lesbian women. I've never had a gay male friend with an obsession with a lesbian woman, nor a lesbian woman hugely attached to a gay man. Friends, yes. But not the way the relationship with M and Brody is described.

    The fact that M supposedly does not have children does not mean she never married, (or that she was gay) and it seems likely she might have married, even if briefly. But, if other stories are to be believed about how she got her nursing creds revoked, it seems likely that if she ever did become pregnant, she would certainly know how to 'fix' it. Just saying.

    I have read this thread for about 3 years now without commenting- it's so hard to keep up with all the facts. Such as when GW was told that Anna was missing, and how. Were the 2 Georges reported as not having been at the hotel for a couple of weeks 'after' being told, or before? No helping with the searching?

    I know a lot has been focussed on Brody, and his 'mesmerizing' personality (excuse me while I gag), but isn't it at all possible that GW was actually very bitter towards annasmom because she wanted a divorce? I say this because I wanted a divorce from my ex, he left, and I've now put up with over 4 agonizing years of being taken to court for custody, and every fight you can think of about CS and SS. After stopping paying SS, he stopped paying CS, and I have recently lost the home I paid for. My ex, like GW makes a lot of money- he just doesn't want to pay a penny of it to me. And, though I had sole custody of our children and lived alone with them for 8 years, even while married, the second we started divorce proceedings, he filed for full custody. Which is weird, because it really seems like his reasoning is not that he's mad that we didn't get along or not like each other, or that he missed the kids he never bothered to spend time with- it's that I had the nerve to not want to be married to him any more. And, I have since met a great guy I'm engaged to. My point is, is it not likely that some of the motivation (if the 2 georges actually conspired to abduct Anna) wasn't completely the Brody magic, but partly GW being angry that annasmom wanted a divorce, found some great new guy, and a good way to punish her would be to take away something she loved? It doesn't help solve the case, but doesn't that change the motivation somewhat?

    The 2 Georges could have just lived their lives on their own terms. GW could have just sent the measly CS payments and gotten on with his life, or he could have offered to have the step-dad adopt Anna, in which case he would have had to pay nothing. From what I have read about annasmom, I think she might have agreed. I know that if my ex offered to continue paying nothing, but let my fiance adopt our kids, I'd agree in a heartbeat. My point is, there were other ways to solve the CS issue. Is it not possible that part of GWs motivation was revenge against annasmom? And that Brody helped him acheive that?

    These are just thoughts. Do with them as you will.


  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorybug View Post
    Random thoughts.

    Several people have brought up the possibility that both M and Brody were gay, and were essentially covering for each other. I'm not sure I buy that. In my experience with both gay men and women does not back this up.. ..
    The fact that M supposedly does not have children does not mean she never married, (or that she was gay) and it seems likely she might have married, even if briefly.

    I have read this thread for about 3 years now without commenting- it's so hard to keep up with all the facts. Such as when GW was told that Anna was missing, and how. Were the 2 Georges reported as not having been at the hotel for a couple of weeks 'after' being told, or before? No helping with the searching?

    I know a lot has been focussed on Brody, and his 'mesmerizing' personality (excuse me while I gag), but isn't it at all possible that GW was actually very bitter towards annasmom because she wanted a divorce? ... My point is, is it not likely that some of the motivation (if the 2 georges actually conspired to abduct Anna) wasn't completely the Brody magic, but partly GW being angry that annasmom wanted a divorce, found some great new guy, and a good way to punish her would be to take away something she loved? It doesn't help solve the case, but doesn't that change the motivation somewhat?

    The 2 Georges could have just lived their lives on their own terms. GW could have just sent the measly CS payments and gotten on with his life, or he could have offered to have the step-dad adopt Anna, in which case he would have had to pay nothing. From what I have read about annasmom, I think she might have agreed. I know that if my ex offered to continue paying nothing, but let my fiance adopt our kids, I'd agree in a heartbeat. My point is, there were other ways to solve the CS issue. Is it not possible that part of GWs motivation was revenge against annasmom? And that Brody helped him acheive that?

    These are just thoughts. Do with them as you will.
    Glorybug, thanks for your thoughts. It is difficult for normal people to really fathom the extent of GB and GW's delusional system. It was a guru-disciple relationship--without any overt sexual content, in my opinion--which depended upon GB being right about everything and GW constantly proving that he was worth his status as disciple. Certainly Brody had built up an entire scenario showing that I was not fit to live, much less be a parent (with a subtext that I was "in love" with him--talk about gagging--with all sorts of sermons on the subject.)

    GW asked for and received joint custody of Anna, though he never visited or communicated with her. I don't believe the motivation was revenge. However, since Joe Ford and I were married in September and Anna disappeared the following January, the desire to maintain control might have entered the picture. There was never any question of "allowing" adoption or helping with the search. There was no contact whatsoever. I can't believe child support was an issue. $175 a month? Please.

    The police told GW about Anna's disappearance. A lab slip was found with his papers showing that he was at the Mission Neighborhood Health Center at the time she disappeared. The Sheriff's office nonetheless had him followed for about a week. The two were gone for two weeks some time after Anna's disappearance, but we have this on the word of the hotel desk clerk, and he was not specific about the exact time and did not know where they had gone.

    I'm sorry about your house and the hard things you have gone through. Hopefully things will get better soon. I hope this answers some of your questions. You are right that the Forum contents are so enormous, it's hard to put the story together. Cubby has helped a lot by trying to group things by subject.


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  15. #73
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    I know this is not contributing in any way right now, but omg I can see why this is the BFH. I am going to have to drink some coffee before I come back to tackle this. lol My stars.

    I only got part way through the first thread on this, and saw someone said Margaret was dead (rip) by the time Anna was kidnapped. Then they wondered if her identity were used in some way to conceal Anna. Have you guys looked into that idea? I'm sorry if you have and I missed it. I wonder if there were a numerological examination of a combination of Margaret's and Anna's names.


  16. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    Wonderful! I didn't know if there were any actual policies or not, but I can get with Sherlock and pen off a letter, and send to you to sign. I don't know what we will get from this, but I feel as if we need to at least try.
    Sorry for my absence lately. Been busy spending time with my father who is not well. Preparing for high school graduation of my youngest and on the same night as graduation my oldest daughter had a baby girl.

    Bern, I will pm you the insurance information with policy numbers today! I hope they still have this information available.


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  18. #75
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    "It was a guru-disciple relationship--without any overt sexual content, in my opinion--which depended upon GB being right about everything and GW constantly proving that he was worth his status as disciple."

    Did GW act this way when you were married? Did he show any clue that he would be easily manipulated before he met Brody?

    "(with a subtext that I was "in love" with him--talk about gagging"

    Um, I've seen his pics. In love? Absolute proof that he was 9 kinds of crazy!

    "GW asked for and received joint custody of Anna, though he never visited or communicated with her."

    What do you suppose was the reason for him asking for joint custody, if he never visited or had contact with Anna? Was it simply to reduce the amount of child support to be paid?

    Considering that GW was the father, did not help with searching, and took off fr vacation after her abduction, didn't LE interview him? Are there no records of them talking to him or questioning him about it?

    M got her nursing lic revoked because of performing 'illegal procedures'? Is there documentation of this? Are there any other illegal procedures besides abortions? If Brody was living with her at the time, is there any indication he was involved with that business?

    I've seen Brody's handwriting. You don't need any further proof he was bat***** crazy. But he still had some semblance of rational thinking- the only reason he could have been so paranoid as to not just get another ID (which would have been easy back then) would be if he had done something SO bad that he irrationally thought getting another ID would not fix it. Just my thoughts.

    Thank you for welcoming me, annasmom. Like I said, I have been reading here for about 3 years, but never posted because for some reason when I initially tried to become a member there was a glitch that wouldn't let me. The other day I tried again and it went through.


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