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Thread: The Box From Hell (BFH) - Part 2

  1. #101
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    I'm only about four memos in, but I'm just blown away by all the shadiness in these notes. Who sold them this policy? It looks like GB and GW may have been planning to either scam the insurance company by killing the person for whom the policy was written, or by giving Anna away in an illegal adoption and then later having her declared dead. Why were they concerned about creditors going after the money? Was this in reference to Anna's mother (for child-support) or were they indebted to someone? The PO Box set up sounds like they were planning to drop off the radar.

    The notes about "not subjecting B to any unpleasantness" and "check sent only to shown address" are really alarming. I'm assuming that GB was the beneficiary? I don't know what the requirements were then, but I do know for sure that in many insurance policies and IRA accounts, SSNs MUST be supplied for your beneficiaries.


    Has this policy application ever been found?

    EDIT: found the Lloyds letter. They cancelled the app when Lloyds wanted to do a credit check
    Last edited by marie-chantal; 05-15-2012 at 05:26 PM.
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  3. #102
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    This is a rather personal question, and I'm really sorry to ask, but was GW trying to argue against paying child support in the year before Anna disappeared? Had he been trying to get out of legal obligations to Anna? In those notes, there's a weird memo about creating a will, leaving $1.00 to ACE. There's also something written about asking an atty if an executor would still be responsible for the debts of the deceased. I wonder if he was thinking of staging his death and leaving the country. It looks like he was really concerned about his debts. This is a theme that keeps coming up in these notes. What were his debts?

    I also keep seeing quotes that GB apparently shared with GW. I can definitely see how GB was acting like some sort of spiritual leader or guru to GW. Creepy.

    EDIT: It also appears that some of these notes contain dialogues that were written out in advance before a meeting. It looks like someone was giving GW instructions on what to say and ask when he spoke with insurance agents and lawyers.
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  5. #103
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    I'm pretty sure that GB never traveled internationally or had any sort of higher education:
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/att...7&d=1219333413

    In this letter, he comments about the postal service and dates. He says something like, "your postcard was marked 10-7, but it reached San Francisco on August 27". Anyone who has traveled or lived abroad would know that 10/7 in other countries is July 7, not October 7. The US is one of the only places in the world where the month is written before the day. His parents may have been immigrants, but they were most likely not educated enough to have been writing dates on documents in the house (or anywhere that a young GB would have seen them).
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  7. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by marie-chantal View Post
    This is a rather personal question, and I'm really sorry to ask, but was GW trying to argue against paying child support in the year before Anna disappeared? Had he been trying to get out of legal obligations to Anna? In those notes, there's a weird memo about creating a will, leaving $1.00 to ACE. There's also something written about asking an atty if an executor would still be responsible for the debts of the deceased. I wonder if he was thinking of staging his death and leaving the country. It looks like he was really concerned about his debts. This is a theme that keeps coming up in these notes. What were his debts?

    I also keep seeing quotes that GB apparently shared with GW. I can definitely see how GB was acting like some sort of spiritual leader or guru to GW. Creepy.

    EDIT: It also appears that some of these notes contain dialogues that were written out in advance before a meeting. It looks like someone was giving GW instructions on what to say and ask when he spoke with insurance agents and lawyers.
    Marie-Chantal, somehow GW had the idea that his child support payments would be increased when Anna reached a certain age, but I have no idea where this idea came from. It certainly was not in any document I had. And of course his support payments were minimal. From what we can gather, GW believed he was going to die and wanted to leave everything to GB. He had many, many life insurance policies with Brody as the beneficiary. I do not know what debts he may have had.

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  9. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annasmom View Post
    Marie-Chantal, somehow GW had the idea that his child support payments would be increased when Anna reached a certain age, but I have no idea where this idea came from. It certainly was not in any document I had. And of course his support payments were minimal. From what we can gather, GW believed he was going to die and wanted to leave everything to GB. He had many, many life insurance policies with Brody as the beneficiary. I do not know what debts he may have had.
    It looks to me like he either planned to kill himself or like he planned to "kill" himself (i.e. make everyone think he was dead, and then flee the country). That's why I am curious about his concern over his debts, and whether or not debtors could got after his estate. I wonder if he realized the insurance scams wouldn't work out, became desperate, and decided to do something to Anna.

    My guess about the belief that his child support obligation would increase as Anna aged came from GB. He probably told GW that as Anna got older, her expenses would increase (clothes, hobbies, etc). GW must have been very, very vulnerable and at a weird point in his life if GB was able to have such a hold on him.

    Do you know of any other GB disciples? It sounds like Seka caught on to him fairly quickly. Were there any others?
    Do you have language questions or letters/documents that you'd like to have examined in order to determine the language background of the writer? I can help!

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  11. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by marie-chantal View Post
    It looks to me like he either planned to kill himself or like he planned to "kill" himself (i.e. make everyone think he was dead, and then flee the country). That's why I am curious about his concern over his debts, and whether or not debtors could got after his estate. I wonder if he realized the insurance scams wouldn't work out, became desperate, and decided to do something to Anna.

    My guess about the belief that his child support obligation would increase as Anna aged came from GB. He probably told GW that as Anna got older, her expenses would increase (clothes, hobbies, etc). GW must have been very, very vulnerable and at a weird point in his life if GB was able to have such a hold on him.

    Do you know of any other GB disciples? It sounds like Seka caught on to him fairly quickly. Were there any others?
    He adored Anna, even though he left when she was a year old and never made contact after that except, toward the last, to type the "Eifee" in her name on the envelopes which contained money orders for support. I don't believe he would ever have harmed her. I think GB, who claimed to have psychic powers, probably convinced him he was going to die...thus the insurance policies. No, the only disciples I know of were Margaret and then GW, though they were constantly trying to "enlist" people, starting with me.

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  13. #107
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    Many of the insurance policies were "Accidental Death" policies, meaning that they would only pay out if the death was an accident, not from natural causes. These policies have a higher-than-normal payout (as compared to standard life insurance) since few people die from accidents versuses natural causes.

    Most of the policies listed Brody as the beneficiary - this is why all of the notes making sure that only Brody would receive the benefits . The one policy listed in "the plan" note for Loyd's of London appears to have required the beneficiary be a family member if any were existing. This is why the note is important: a policy could be created with Anna as beneficiary, then if Anna disappeared, the policy could be changed to Brody as beneficary. This is a possible motive for Anna's disappearance - if the Georges were involved.

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  15. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie View Post
    Many of the insurance policies were "Accidental Death" policies, meaning that they would only pay out if the death was an accident, not from natural causes. These policies have a higher-than-normal payout (as compared to standard life insurance) since few people die from accidents versuses natural causes.

    Most of the policies listed Brody as the beneficiary - this is why all of the notes making sure that only Brody would receive the benefits . The one policy listed in "the plan" note for Loyd's of London appears to have required the beneficiary be a family member if any were existing. This is why the note is important: a policy could be created with Anna as beneficiary, then if Anna disappeared, the policy could be changed to Brody as beneficary. This is a possible motive for Anna's disappearance - if the Georges were involved.
    Thank you, Dr. Doogie. I noticed something in one of the memos about changing beneficiaries, which made me think that it could be connected to Anna's disappearance. I also noticed how the Gs balked at having to provide info on GB, and at the background check that Lloyds wanted to do on GB.

    Were any applications ever found that had GB's info on them? I know that the Gs withdrew the Lloyds application, but I wonder if they had ever started to fill out applications for other policies, withdrew them when they realized that backgrounds would be checked and then filed them away. It would be interesting to see if a SSN was ever listed for GB.
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  17. #109
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    No, there were no actual applications in the BFH. The two Georges went out of their way to not provide any specific info about Brody - they even sent a photo of Brody to an insurance company with the instructions to only pay benefits to the man in the photo. This was likely to avoid Brody having to show an ID to the company.

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  19. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie View Post
    No, there were no actual applications in the BFH. The two Georges went out of their way to not provide any specific info about Brody - they even sent a photo of Brody to an insurance company with the instructions to only pay benefits to the man in the photo. This was likely to avoid Brody having to show an ID to the company.
    It's really laughable that an educated man like GW would think that he could just submit a photo to an insurance company in lieu of concrete identifying info and think that it would suffice.

    I know that life was much different in the early 70s than it is now; however, even back then, I would think that insurance companies would need SSNs or other information for the beneficiaries.

    It also makes me even more convinced that GB was not as educated and sophisticated as he wanted everyone to believe.
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  21. #111
    JR

    The medical slip found in the Box from Hell with JR's name on it keeps haunting me. I can't help but think that we should try to track this man down and ask him if he was indeed at the clinic that day. (ok, I just watched a detective youtube flick) but every time a person's name comes up from the past they contact that person and often receive info from that person. I can't locate the image either, does someone happen to have it? Why does this keep coming at me? Is it because I find it odd it would be in the box. Water's could have put it in as a red herring but I feel we still need to know more about R. As I've mentioned in the past... what if! what if this was a hint to where Anna went?

    Thanks for hearing me out...

    SK
    Last edited by SideKick; 11-08-2012 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Removal of full name. sk
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  23. #112
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    sk i totally agree with you i think someone should find him and contact him asap assuming he is still alive and well.

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  25. #113
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    With all due respect, we can not post full names of living people who have not been named in MSM. I asked the mods to change the full name to initials.

    What we have done in the past to stay within TOS, is to use initials in the threads, and any sleuths wanting the full name to do research can request that info via pm.

    Also, I would not suggest contacting strangers. Research is fine, if anything comes of it, it should be forwarded to the authorities and let them handle how to make contact if the authorities deem it necessary.

    thank you everyone!
    ~JMO~

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  27. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    JR

    The medical slip found in the Box from Hell with JR's name on it keeps haunting me. I can't help but think that we should try to track this man down and ask him if he was indeed at the clinic that day. (ok, I just watched a detective youtube flick) but every time a person's name comes up from the past they contact that person and often receive info from that person. I can't locate the image either, does someone happen to have it? Why does this keep coming at me? Is it because I find it odd it would be in the box. Water's could have put it in as a red herring but I feel we still need to know more about R. As I've mentioned in the past... what if! what if this was a hint to where Anna went?

    Thanks for hearing me out...

    SK
    One problem would be that there are probably a hundred people in the San Francisco telephone book with that name. We have no idea if this person is still alive or lives in the area, whether he has a telephone, used his real name, etc.

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  29. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    With all due respect, we can not post full names of living people who have not been named in MSM. I asked the mods to change the full name to initials.

    What we have done in the past to stay within TOS, is to use initials in the threads, and any sleuths wanting the full name to do research can request that info via pm.

    Also, I would not suggest contacting strangers. Research is fine, if anything comes of it, it should be forwarded to the authorities and let them handle how to make contact if the authorities deem it necessary.

    thank you everyone!
    Hi Cubby,

    Can you pm me the full name. Thanks

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  31. #116
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieMum View Post
    Hi Cubby,

    Can you pm me the full name. Thanks


    I don't remember the first name. Please send SideKick a pm, she has the info with the full name.

    hth!
    Last edited by Cubby; 11-11-2012 at 03:33 PM.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  33. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    JR

    The medical slip found in the Box from Hell with JR's name on it keeps haunting me. I can't help but think that we should try to track this man down and ask him if he was indeed at the clinic that day. (ok, I just watched a detective youtube flick) but every time a person's name comes up from the past they contact that person and often receive info from that person. I can't locate the image either, does someone happen to have it? Why does this keep coming at me? Is it because I find it odd it would be in the box. Water's could have put it in as a red herring but I feel we still need to know more about R. As I've mentioned in the past... what if! what if this was a hint to where Anna went?

    Thanks for hearing me out...

    SK
    Hi SK,

    Thanks for sending me the name. Trying to locate JR to talk to him would probably be futile as he was 51 in 1973 when the tests were done, which would (if he was still alive) make him 91 or 92. The tests he had done would indicate that GW thought he was anemic and the test results indicate he was probably correct, so he may not have been a well man even back then.

    I have done some searching on Ancestry and there are several JR's in the area that could have been this JR.

    I agree with you that this medical slip was left for a reason but what that reason is, is just another mystery surrounding the G's.

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  35. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    JR

    The medical slip found in the Box from Hell with JR's name on it keeps haunting me. I can't help but think that we should try to track this man down and ask him if he was indeed at the clinic that day. (ok, I just watched a detective youtube flick) but every time a person's name comes up from the past they contact that person and often receive info from that person. I can't locate the image either, does someone happen to have it? Why does this keep coming at me? Is it because I find it odd it would be in the box. Water's could have put it in as a red herring but I feel we still need to know more about R. As I've mentioned in the past... what if! what if this was a hint to where Anna went?

    Thanks for hearing me out...

    SK
    Can you refresh my memory? I don't necessarily need the full name, but the initials are not ringing a bell at the moment. Was JR a patient at the clinic, or a doctor that treated GB?

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  37. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odyssey View Post
    Can you refresh my memory? I don't necessarily need the full name, but the initials are not ringing a bell at the moment. Was JR a patient at the clinic, or a doctor that treated GB?
    Hi Odyssey,

    JR was a patient. I found the medical slip earlier but now I am having trouble finding it again. Probably tired. Will look again in the morning and post the link.

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  39. #120
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