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  1. #1
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    Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - #5

    Please continue here.

    Thread 4


    And a BIG THANK YOU to all you dedicated sleuths working so hard to help find Mariam.

    Salem
    Last edited by KateB; 04-27-2015 at 08:47 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl
    Your son is very smart. Mariam herself would not have the connections or the funds to obtain a forged passport, but if any organization like the Russian Mafia or Georgian ****s are responsible for this abduction, I'm sure they would have no problem obtaining one. But whether here or elsewhere, dead or alive, the question remaining is "WHY?".

    JMO
    Forging documents is one of the specialties of established organized crime groups.

    Speculation here, but I would think the "WHY" could include the same reasons that many other females become victims of human trafficking ... $$, young, pretty, out of her element.

    I believe it was said earlier that the school had a high population of Russian/European students, and i'd be interested in hearing any scuttlebutt re teens being involved in street gangs operating in the area. Low peeps on the totem pole will grab and sell anything (drugs, cars, kids ...) for money or to establish themselves by impressing further up the heirarchy (initiations, code of silence?) Could even be that George unwittingly hooked up with some new friends who saw Mariam as an easy target.

  3. #3
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    http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/newsr...pdfs/18141.pdf


    This capture of organized crime individual from Albania might be of interest.

  4. #4
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    Russia vs. Georgia

    It seems that the conflict between Georgia and Russia is far from over. From a week ago:

    "Russian military intelligence believes Georgia might again attack South Ossetia, the pro-Moscow region over which the two countries fought a war last year, a powerful spy chief said."

    http://www.rferl.org/content/Russia_...r/1870384.html

    Even before reading this, I was once again thinking about the frequent visits Mariam's family made last summer to Earl Bales Park, which is just south of the Toronto neighbourhood that is highly populated by recent Russian immigrants. This is not the closest park to where the family lives.

    "Mariam's family frequented the park often throughout the summer."


    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/mari...baffles-police

    According to weather records, the summer of 2009 was the wettest in history. By the middle of August,

    "Eighteen of the last 25 weekend days have been soakers."

    http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...er-rain-record

    You would think that last summer was not an ideal time for "frequent" trips to a park that wasn't even close to home. Unless there was another reason besides a family outing. If VM and/or LT were involved in some sort of espionage, either back home, in the States, or even in Canada, this park would be an ideal meeting place for covert conferences.

    This theory is also another explanation for the involvement of Interpol in this missing person's case. Cross-border criminal activities fall within their jurisdiction. This is Interpol's public profile on Mariam:

    http://tiny.cc/TcHYT
    http://www.interpol.int/public/Data/...2009_33509.asp

    We know that LE has checked the family computer, but what about their phone records? If meetings took place, it had to be arranged somehow in advance. I really hope that all their incoming and outgoing calls were traced for the duration of their stay since they arrived in Canada.

    JMO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    It seems that the conflict between Georgia and Russia is far from over. From a week ago:

    "Russian military intelligence believes Georgia might again attack South Ossetia, the pro-Moscow region over which the two countries fought a war last year, a powerful spy chief said."

    http://www.rferl.org/content/Russia_...r/1870384.html

    Even before reading this, I was once again thinking about the frequent visits Mariam's family made last summer to Earl Bales Park, which is just south of the Toronto neighbourhood that is highly populated by recent Russian immigrants. This is not the closest park to where the family lives.

    "Mariam's family frequented the park often throughout the summer."


    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/mari...baffles-police

    According to weather records, the summer of 2009 was the wettest in history. By the middle of August,

    "Eighteen of the last 25 weekend days have been soakers."

    http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...er-rain-record

    You would think that last summer was not an ideal time for "frequent" trips to a park that wasn't even close to home. Unless there was another reason besides a family outing. If VM and/or LT were involved in some sort of espionage, either back home, in the States, or even in Canada, this park would be an ideal meeting place for covert conferences.

    This theory is also another explanation for the involvement of Interpol in this missing person's case. Cross-border criminal activities fall within their jurisdiction. This is Interpol's public profile on Mariam:

    http://tiny.cc/TcHYT
    http://www.interpol.int/public/Data/...2009_33509.asp

    We know that LE has checked the family computer, but what about their phone records? If meetings took place, it had to be arranged somehow in advance. I really hope that all their incoming and outgoing calls were traced for the duration of their stay since they arrived in Canada.

    JMO
    AG thank you for this analysis. I was also surprised at the time when I heard that the family frequented Earl Bales Park. I immediately wondered why? It was out of their way and there are other parks closer to their home.

    This brings the spotlight to the family again, don't you think so?


    http://sunsetchaser07.blogspot.com/

    Culture also affects communication by influencing the recipients' assumptions. Our minds try to twist incoming information to make it fit in our worldview. Since different cultures have very different worldviews, cross-cultural communication is especially likely to change meaning between sender and receiver, as the sender may have a very different worldview from the receiver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by outcast View Post
    AG thank you for this analysis. I was also surprised at the time when I heard that the family frequented Earl Bales Park. I immediately wondered why? It was out of their way and there are other parks closer to their home.

    This brings the spotlight to the family again, don't you think so?
    (BBM)

    Yes, the parents' possible political involvement being the catalyst for this abduction has always been my favourite theory. The timing and location of Mariam's disappearance rules out a random abduction, IMO. I really feel that she was specifically targeted and this was the first opportunity that presented itself. And if she was targeted, I can't think of a more logical motive than one of revenge or extortion. Of course I may be wrong, but logically this just sounds more feasible to me than anything else.

    JMO

    (Actually, an entirely new theory occurred to me yesterday that has never been explored. But it's so wild and crazy that I'm hesitant to post it. It doesn't entirely hold water and could make me very unpopular.)
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    (BBM)

    Yes, the parents' possible political involvement being the catalyst for this abduction has always been my favourite theory. The timing and location of Mariam's disappearance rules out a random abduction, IMO. I really feel that she was specifically targeted and this was the first opportunity that presented itself. And if she was targeted, I can't think of a more logical motive than one of revenge or extortion. Of course I may be wrong, but logically this just sounds more feasible to me than anything else.

    JMO

    (Actually, an entirely new theory occurred to me yesterday that has never been explored. But it's so wild and crazy that I'm hesitant to post it. It doesn't entirely hold water and could make me very unpopular.)
    I would love to hear that theory and if it involves M.M playing a more "assertive" political or money laundering type role no one would get angry.I know some kids even spy on their own parents...!On the other hand if you were to say something about a "balloon boy" scenario that might be unpopular and anything involving certain countries.... Your posts are very sensible and so a" crazy " theory from you would be most welcome!

  8. #8
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    I would never get angry at hearing a theory... I would just love something else to try to sleuth in this...

    (And believe me.. my mind has wandered into some pretty weird ones too when thinking about what could possibly be going on here...)
    R.I.P Jenni-Lyn Watson


    "The test of the morality of a society is what it does for its children." ~Dietrich Bonhoeffer
    "From the deepest desires often come the deadliest hate." ~Socrates

  9. #9
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    A new theory

    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    I would love to hear that theory and if it involves M.M playing a more "assertive" political or money laundering type role no one would get angry.I know some kids even spy on their own parents...!On the other hand if you were to say something about a "balloon boy" scenario that might be unpopular and anything involving certain countries.... Your posts are very sensible and so a" crazy " theory from you would be most welcome!
    Thanks, dotr. No money laundering or "balloon boy" scenarios here, but still controversial. I wrote this last night.

    I have to apologize in advance for some of the following content. These opinions aren’t going to put me on anyone’s popularity list, but if we’re going to explore everything, I feel it should be said. But I have to emphasize that I’ve grown to care deeply about Mariam and nothing below is meant as an insult.

    After reading SillyBilly’s post about the “why” of Mariam’s disappearance and the possible human trafficking motive, my mind began to race. SB described Mariam as “pretty”. Well, I hate to say it, but IMO Mariam is average-looking, bordering on plain. In all her pictures, her hair is severely pulled back, she wears no make-up, and dresses conservatively. I realize that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”, but she is not your stereotypical teenaged Lolita in the Britney Spears spectrum. I don’t see her bringing in big bucks in a foreign brothel or commanding a high price from a Middle Eastern sheikh as his 15th wife. If anything, she strikes me as almost masculine.

    And this led me to wonder if she could possibly be gay. We have explored the theory that perhaps a woman could have lured Mariam and how that would help with the trust issue. Well, what if Mariam was befriended by an older, lesbian woman at some point in the two months before her disappearance? Conversations with a female librarian, youth worker, immigration official, etc. would not raise the same red flags of suspicion from any witnesses as it would with a male. Surely if Mariam had been struggling with her sexuality for a while, a bond like this would be both a relief to her and a source of shame to discuss with her family.

    I don’t believe that Mariam would have willingly gone with an older man. I don’t believe that Mariam had the opportunity to meet a young man close to her age, nor would he have the means to support her all this time. But a woman over 30? If she developed a friendship with a fellow lesbian and wanted that lifestyle, I think she might go. A professional woman living on her own could support her financially and keep her hidden successfully.

    The flaw in this theory is that I still don’t believe that Mariam would remain estranged from her family for this length of time, nor give up her academic future willingly. It goes against everything we’ve been told about her. Also, she is now 18 and legally free to do as she wants. There would no longer be any need for her to stay hidden and she could return to school, with or without her parents’ approval of her lifestyle. So, I’m not really buying my own theory; just putting it out there with all the others. Of my three theories, this one would be third down the list.

    I'm hoping that no one gets angry at me for this and am interested in your opinions.

    JMO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

  10. #10
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    Definitely something to consider AG, and I toyed with this theory too.. I just didn't know how we would even begin to try and figure this out. Mariam was a pretty private person to begin with and I am almost certain that her sexuality would be impossible to figure out..
    R.I.P Jenni-Lyn Watson


    "The test of the morality of a society is what it does for its children." ~Dietrich Bonhoeffer
    "From the deepest desires often come the deadliest hate." ~Socrates


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLMcKenna83 View Post
    Definitely something to consider AG, and I toyed with this theory too.. I just didn't know how we would even begin to try and figure this out. Mariam was a pretty private person to begin with and I am almost certain that her sexuality would be impossible to figure out..
    ITA. There is no way for any of us to either confirm or refute this theory. My only hope is that if LE is reading these forums and this has not occurred to them, it will give them another avenue to explore. If their investigation concentrated solely on male suspects, they need to look deeply into every female Mariam had contact with. If LE checked the family's phone records, calls to or from a legitimate contact (say, the YMCA, an immigration official, a lawyer, or a teacher) may not have aroused suspicion. And there are also the tenants of Mariam's apartment building. I know the units were searched, but there are ways around that - especially considering that everyone was given forewarning.

    JMO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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    This article makes quite clear the Georgian attitude to gays... lesbians in particular.


    http://chelseanow.com/articles/2010/...e960483548.txt

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    This article makes quite clear the Georgian attitude to gays... lesbians in particular.


    http://chelseanow.com/articles/2010/...e960483548.txt
    Wow, this is shocking. Just one line from the article:

    "Georgia is one of the most culturally homophobic countries among the former republics of the Soviet Union; four-fifths of its population of some 4.3 million people are faithful to the Georgian Orthodox Church, one of the country’s most influential institutions and one militantly opposed to homosexuality."


    Thank you, dotr, for this eye-opener.
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    Wow, this is shocking. Just one line from the article:

    "Georgia is one of the most culturally homophobic countries among the former republics of the Soviet Union; four-fifths of its population of some 4.3 million people are faithful to the Georgian Orthodox Church, one of the country’s most influential institutions and one militantly opposed to homosexuality."


    Thank you, dotr, for this eye-opener.
    Yes, that line is a beaut !!

    Well AG, your theory is as good as any other we've had, and would certainly dispel the pregnancy theory

    One of the first things that came to mind in considering your theory was George having laughed/scoffed at certain suggestions regarding Mariam's possible involvement in "sales" .. his response somehow smacked to me of scorn or disdain for his sister. Toss in VM's background in religious studies, who knows what stance the males of the family would take if Mariam's sexual orientation was discovered.
    Last edited by sillybilly; 01-28-2010 at 07:23 PM. Reason: wording

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    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    Yes, that line is a beaut !!

    Well AG, your theory is as good as any other we've had, and would certainly dispel the pregnancy theory

    One of the first things that came to mind in considering your theory was George having laughed/scoffed at certain suggestions regarding Mariam's possible involvement in "sales" .. his response somehow smacked to me of scorn or disdain for his sister. Toss in VM's background in religious studies, who knows what stance the males of the family would take if Mariam's sexual orientation was discovered.
    (BBM)

    It's interesting that a few people here took George's attitude that way. I just saw it as a natural reaction to the suggestion that someone as shy and reserved as Mariam would have to interact with the public, especially one with whom she would have a language barrier. A retail job normally requires good social skills and a decent command of English - neither of which Mariam is said to have. I understood George's scorn as not aimed at his sister, but at the mere concept.

    I have a close, lengthy relationship with someone who is very intelligent, but shy and reserved like Mariam, so I understand these types very well. If someone were to suggest to me that he take a job in sales, I'd laugh my head off. He would be totally out of his element and would scoff at the idea as much as I would.

    JMO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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