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  1. #1

    The Domestic Violence Shelter

    Tammi has stated that Elizabeth told her she was going to a domestic violence shelter. Tammi has indicated two different dates on which this conversation could have occurred: December 23 or December 26.

    Why December 23?

    On December 23, Tammi posts on her FaceBook that Elizabeth and Gabriel were on the road, that Elizabeth found 'an underground help' in TX. She writes that the 'help' had given Elizabeth formula, diapers, etc, and all the legal 'formalities'.


    Why December 26?

    Tammi stated on another Nancy Grace show the conversation took place on this specific day.


    When Elizabeth Went Missing

    Tammi made an unrelated reference to Sunday, December 27 as the day she considers Elizabeth to have gone missing:

    TAMMI SMITH: And from what Yami says, her cell phone was — had a signal in Victoria, Texas, and that was the day that she went missing. And that was the day that she actually got on the bus.

    CASAREZ: And what day was the cell phone significance from Victoria, Texas? What day was that?

    TAMMI SMITH: Sunday the 27th.


    Nancy Grace Show Excerpt

    Smiths Take Polygraphs in Missing Baby Gabriel Case - Aired January 8, 2010
    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../08/ng.01.html

    CASAREZ: OK. I`ve got to ask you about a FaceBook entry. I want to show everybody that this is a FaceBook industry, and it is from a Tammi Peters Smith, which would be you…

    … and it is from December 23rd, 2009. And it says in part, quote, “Please keep praying for Gabriel and his Mommy`s safety on the road. She found an underground help in Texas that has given her formula, diapers, et cetera, and all the legal formalities. Keep praying for his safety.” Did you write that, Tammi?

    TAMMI: Yes, I wrote that.

    CASAREZ: What do you mean by it?

    TAMMI: OK. What I meant by that is — OK, I was being — I don`t want to — I don`t want to — I don`t want to talk bad about Logan, OK? But I was somewhat threatened by Logan, and I wanted to make sure he understood because we talked back and forth — wanted to make sure he understood that — and in the beginning of that, you`ll see that we`re going to — you know, we`re going to do our, you know, classes to be foster parents and all that.

    So I wanted to make sure he knew that we are not interested in his son anymore. And secondly, before Elizabeth went missing, she let us know that she was going to a domestic violence shelter that was going to take care of her, the baby, and everything that they needed. And so I wanted to make sure that he knew that we`re out of it. We don`t want any part of her or the baby or you. And that was my way because the last time me and Logan spoke, he hung up on me, and I couldn`t tell him that. So that was me publicly letting him know. And I think anybody would want to pray for them, too, on the road.

    CASAREZ: But you said she found an underground, “underground help.” That denotes something illegal, something not aboveboard.

    TAMMI: OK. Well, she had mentioned to me the word “underground,” and she mentioned that — at first, she mentioned that it was a domestic violence shelter. And she had used the word “underground” maybe once in the conversation. And instead of saying “domestic violence,” I didn`t want that to make Logan think that I was trying to say he was violent towards her… … because as far as I know, he was not.

    CASAREZ: … she told you she found a domestic violence shelter in San Antonio?

    TAMMI: She didn`t say it was in San Antonio, but yes.

    CASAREZ: But I want to go back to Tammi Smith. Right before the commercial break, you told us that Elizabeth had told you, and referred to it as an “underground help” at least once — that she had gone to. When did she tell you this?

    TAMMI: She told me, I believe it was the day before that Sunday that she had found a domestic violence — she didn`t tell me a name. She just said that that was her plan to go there and they would take care of everything because that was our last plea to come back. I had a friend in Nashville that works with attorneys call her and plea to her to come back here to Arizona to court on Monday. I had my attorney call her and plea to her to come back here and go to court on that Monday, so — yes.

    CASAREZ: So you say that she said to you the Saturday before the Sunday — so you`re saying — the Sunday of the 27th, she left… … San Antonio. So she was in San Antonio when she told you she had found an underground domestic violence shelter, a place to go?

    TAMMI: Right. And my guess is, I believe when she got to Miami, I believe that`s kind of the place that she went to, some kind of teen hostel place, and maybe that`s what she was talking about. And maybe she was partially telling me the truth, but it wasn`t really going to be her and Gabriel, it was going to be her.

  2. #2
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    snipped


    “Please keep praying for Gabriel and his Mommy`s safety on the road. She found an underground help in Texas that has given her formula, diapers, et cetera, and all the legal formalities. Keep praying for his safety.” Did you write that, Tammi?
    Since Tammi only started talking to EJ the day before 12/22 and there was no contact per Tammi since leaving 12/18 but Tammi only considers her missing on 12/27 ... Which is odd I consider EJ missing 12/18

    The wording "an underground help" instead of just underground help make me feel she knows more...more familiar knowledge about this help that just a vague noun....and considered her on the road and not missing at this point.

    And secondly, before Elizabeth went missing, she let us know that she was going to a domestic violence shelter that was going to take care of her, the baby, and everything that they needed
    .

    Tammi says that EJ is saying this 12/26 the day before she went missing...
    Notice TS separates Elizabeth from the baby at this point...

    Maybe I reading too much into this or is Tammi saying more between the lines....

  3. #3
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    What I find interesting is the statement Tammi makes that EJ used "underground" "maybe once". In other words, "I'm backing away slowly, and distancing myself from that statement."

    I would also like to point out that there is a good underground and a bad underground. A good underground agency will insist in the terms of their agreement that any and all court dates must be kept. They work with prosecutors and child welfare agencies to ensure that a woman is not running from a criminal or civil case of any kind. They do fact check, backwards and forward thirty different times.

    If EJ hooked up with the underground it wasn't the legitimate no-other-option underground, it was the illegal kind.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    What I find interesting is the statement Tammi makes that EJ used "underground" "maybe once". In other words, "I'm backing away slowly, and distancing myself from that statement."

    I would also like to point out that there is a good underground and a bad underground. A good underground agency will insist in the terms of their agreement that any and all court dates must be kept. They work with prosecutors and child welfare agencies to ensure that a woman is not running from a criminal or civil case of any kind. They do fact check, backwards and forward thirty different times.

    If EJ hooked up with the underground it wasn't the legitimate no-other-option underground, it was the illegal kind.
    Ok
    If Elizabeth had help....and this was planned by/with underground help

    EJ skips out the day when Gabriel is to have visitation with Logan
    She rents trailer
    She gathers funds by selling assets
    She disposes of Laptop-
    She takes no phone-
    She travels to another state- not a friends home etc- she wants to be hidden
    she get another ID
    She get a phone- so far she is really hidden...
    what happens next....she goes on the internet see Tammi's message
    Then she calls Tammi... WTH she just broke Rule #1 in Hiding Out.....
    Then Tammi gives Logan the number....He tracks it back to San Antonio
    She's no longer hidden....If underground help was there helping why not trash the phone on 12/23/09 when contact was made with Logan and move her again...
    Elizabeth is a smart person and if she asked the underground for help and to hide you... why would you break the rules and communciate with the people you are hiding from? Hmmmmmmm

  5. #5
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    Children of the Underground-Faye Yager

    While I'm aware of the mention of Faye Yeager and The Children of the Underground in other threads pertaining to Gabriel's case, I thought a tread to gather as much information as possible about the network would be a good idea.
    Mods if you feel the thread is unnecessary then please let me know. TIA

    Faye Yager, the woman who hides the children. Referred to in this article as the "nemesis of the FBI and the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, the darling of the Coalition Against Domestic Violence and Mothers Against Sexual Abuse, star of features in Life, People, U.S. News & World Report, Redbook, and all the talk shows."


    Faye Yager quote:
    "I got a woman comin' in from Indiana, and I got another comin' in tomorrow night," she says. "And then, there's Tessy Kittle, who couldn't go underground with her little girl because of her diabetes. They're gonna arrest her for not tellin' where the child is! She doesn't know where she is, and they're gonna throw her in jail anyway.


    Here's a good start on information

    http://dartcenter.org/content/children-underground-0

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=861&dat=19920525&
    id=qYI1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=glkEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7029,5169022

    http://underwatch.wordpress.com/
    Last edited by momtective; 06-28-2010 at 12:58 PM.

  6. #6
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    Rita Mazzie entered the underground through the doors of a women's shelter.

    But does that mean America's growing network of domestic violence shelters has become an arm of the underground?

    "Actually, yes," says one lawyer who has extensive underground contacts and asked not to be identified. "There is a federally funded underground in this country - women's shelters. A woman and children will go in, she'll say she's been abused, and if they think she's being stalked, they'll call up another shelter and send her there. And that's often the start of a life on the run."

    Sometimes, shelter officials go a step further, hooking women up with networks that have "safe houses" and can provide false identity papers, like the one run by Atlanta's Faye Yager, who acknowledges she gets many of her referrals from shelters.


    http://dartcenter.org/content/children-underground-10

  7. #7
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    Great article on Yager -- thanks momtective!

    While I think Yager believes what she is doing is protecting these children, she is blind to the reality that she (and others who do this) are very likely hiding children who have merely become pawns pitted against their other parent - most likely Dad. I would love to find out the percentage of women who have convinced an "underground" of abuse when they actually were lying just to punish the father. Plus, Mom gets to start a new life, too. It's a win-win situation for these vengeful and deceitful parents!

    It's crazy to me this happens way more than we realize and that it could be happening right in our own neighborhoods!

    If EJ was able to get Gabe into hiding through an underground, I highly doubt he will EVER be found. I pray they are able to get some info from her and that all involved in setting this up are prosecuted to the fullest extent!

    If TS is involved, after reading this article, her self-righteous attitude makes so much more sense.

    >>>> Praying for Gabriel <<<<
    100 years from now, it won't matter what kind of car you drove or how big your house was. What will matter is that you were important in the eyes of a child.


  8. #8
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    The Alleged Leaders – Protective Parent Group

    http://underwatch.wordpress.com/the-leaders/

  9. #9
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    Momtective - thats a frightening long list of people who are commited to and succeed in hiding children. And that's whos KNOWN! Would be interesting to find if there's any link between TS and any of these people/organizations.

    I honestly think if Gabe was put into hiding through the underground, he will never be found. Even if EJ cracks and gives up some info, she won't know where he is and I guarantee the ones who do would go to jail before saying anything. They'd love the chance to be shown as "martyrs" in the media.
    100 years from now, it won't matter what kind of car you drove or how big your house was. What will matter is that you were important in the eyes of a child.


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowSubmarine View Post
    Momtective - thats a frightening long list of people who are commited to and succeed in hiding children. And that's whos KNOWN! Would be interesting to find if there's any link between TS and any of these people/organizations.

    I honestly think if Gabe was put into hiding through the underground, he will never be found. Even if EJ cracks and gives up some info, she won't know where he is and I guarantee the ones who do would go to jail before saying anything. They'd love the chance to be shown as "martyrs" in the media.
    Yes indeed, this is scary as HE double toothpicks...the more I find and read the scarier it gets. I agree, if EJ did indeed find "Underground Help" as stated by TPS, then he will never be found and that acknowledgment just breaks my heart. Just makes me want to dedicate my every waking moment for the rest of my life to sleuthing every one of these people to find every single connection possible.


  11. #11
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    Great thread momtective

  12. #12
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    where is gabriel??

    I don't have anything new to add, just wanting to know where is Gabriel? Poor baby.

  13. #13
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    Heartbreaking case. If Gabriel has, indeed, slipped down the hell-hole called the "underground", I take comfort in knowing that kharma is a beotch and all unrepenting conspirators will pay a thousand, no, a million-fold. The fire of all fires awaits someone as they draw their last breath. And you can bet their disturbed sleep is just a small taste of what eternity has waiting.

    My personal experience with the "underground": I had a good friend, our children were friends and playmates. One winter day, with snow and ice on the ground, she disappeared enroute to care for her teminally ill mother. Two days of road and helicopter searches turned up nothing. The third day, they prepared to drag water bodies. We were practically spoon-feeding her husband, who was sick with fear that his young daughters and wife had frozen to death injured roadside somewhere. Then the phone rang. His wife, who had seen her bolo on television, was calling to say that the ceiling light in her car was really a tracking device and Tom Brokaw was trying to kill her and he had been sending her secret messages through the ceiling fan, so she ran for her life with the kids, obviously VERY mentally ill, probably precipitated by the stress of her mother's illness. Before he could get a word in, she hung up. The FBI got involved, a warrant for her arrest was issued so she would be taken into custody if stopped on a traffic violation, and the kids became milk carton and poster kids. Her husband lost years from his lifespan, worried about whether his kids were even still alive or not. Six months later, she was taken into custody in Hawaii as she got off a flight from New Zealand. She simply had told a shelter she was abused and was shuttled from shelter to shelter for the whole six months, including Great Britain, China, and New Zealand. Outrageous.

    Her children remain good friends of my kids, all grown now; I love them dearly. Their mother still lives in this community, and 20+ years later, still struggles with mental illness. I feel sure some of these shelters saw signs of her mental illness and chose to pass her "along the underground" rather than getting her help or checking her background. I'm betting once she was "in", outting her would have put themselves too much at risk. I also feel VERY sure there are many people working these "underground" shelters that are merely *projecting* their own mental issues and past situations and are simply not reachable via rational thought processes. I suspect some have even lost custsody of their own children when courts have decided the children's best interests were NOT with them. I suspect there is alot of anger, rage, and self-righteousness within alot of them. Remind you of anyone close to Gabriel's case??

    How dare these people screw up innocent lives! WHY are there not life terms for this kind of human trafficking? If our justice system can not mete out punishment serious enough to provide a deterrent to others, what is to be done, and by whom, to stop this heart-rending abomination against God and mankind?

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    Amen OneLove..Amen.

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    For those of you who know my posts, I just don't buy the underground theory.Maybe I just don't want to accfept that that is the case. A shelter I can buy...but I honestly don't think that is where little GB is...call me crazy..I still feel in my heart he is with someone that TPS and Jackie Cool know, or someone they know, knows someone...to me it is just as easy or not easier to hide him...not shelter him..

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