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Thread: Accused: Guy Heinze, Jr - Multiple Killings Reported in GA Trailer Park, Aug 2009 #2

  1. #151
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    Well, I guess we will just have to wait and see what they've got. We could all probably guess until doomsday and still get it wrong. I will be following this case very closely, that's for sure. It will be fascinating to see how this plays out in court.

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  3. #152
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    http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content...AeQ.cspx?rss=1

    Then came August 30, 2009. "I lost my brother, my sister. Guy was raised as my brother. I lost two nieces, Michelle and Chrissy. I lost my two nephews, Michael and Junior."

    Seven members of Cross's family and a family friend, were found dead inside a Brunswick mobile home. They're accused killer, another family member, Guy Heinze, Jr.

    Cross remembers Heinze as a little boy, not the violent adult police say he became. They say he alone beat his family to death.

    "So, if everybody was asleep and he went in there with determination and bam, bam, bam, they wouldn't have even had time to scream," said Cross.

    imo
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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  5. #153
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    Just thinking: My first impulse if I were Guy's lawyer would be to ask for a change of venue. To get a fair trial and less biased jury pool the trial could be moved to any other Georgia town or city.

    I hear about this being done in my State and California.

    I haven't heard a word that it was asked for and that would be public record.

    Is that a State law (that changes of venue are possible if the Judge grants that motion) ?

    This case received national publicity one year ago for about one day. I think more folks in Brunswick have opinions and preconceived notions than elsewhere in Georgia.

    Any thoughts?

    Greg
    "I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability"

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  7. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregH View Post
    Just thinking: My first impulse if I were Guy's lawyer would be to ask for a change of venue. To get a fair trial and less biased jury pool the trial could be moved to any other Georgia town or city.

    I hear about this being done in my State and California.

    I haven't heard a word that it was asked for and that would be public record.

    Is that a State law (that changes of venue are possible if the Judge grants that motion) ?

    This case received national publicity one year ago for about one day. I think more folks in Brunswick have opinions and preconceived notions than elsewhere in Georgia.

    Any thoughts?

    Greg
    We do often have change of venues here in cases. For example, Lynn Turner, the black widow poisoner, who just died in prison, had one of her murder cases moved.

    However a lot of information was known before those trials were held.

    Change of Venue doesn't happen now but much closer to trial time.

    With all the parties involved not releasing any information about the evidence it is going to be a hard go for his attorney to be granted a COV imo.

    Had there been loads of pretrial publicity with the parties or family members often appearing on shows like NG or JVM or many long interviews by the area media after the arrest, then they may have had a chance, but that didn't happen in this case.

    Once he was arrested 8 days later pretty much everything went quiet.

    I think those in Brunswick commenting on the internet either know Jr or his family or knows someone who knew them. I think that is why most seem to believe he is guilty but I am sure there are countless people living there that dont even keep up with the case, and can be fair if they become a juror and didnt know the family or defendant.

    JMO though
    Last edited by oceanblueeyes; 09-01-2010 at 04:34 PM.
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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  9. #155
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    I think they need to move it as if what OBE says about what most people she talk to there is true then that county has already deemed him quilty.

    Why risk it ? Just move it and you dont even have to consider that being a facter later. 9 people who had friends and the friends of there friends. There could be 10,000 people who have some sort of connection to this family in the 3rd degree of seperation.

    How large is the jury pool there?

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  11. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
    I think they need to move it as if what OBE says about what most people she talk to there is true then that county has already deemed him guilty.

    Why risk it ? Just move it and you don't even have to consider that being a factor later. 9 people who had friends and the friends of there friends. There could be 10,000 people who have some sort of connection to this family in the 3rd degree of separation.

    How large is the jury pool there?
    I think the city of Brunswick has about 18-20 thousand people. I don't know how many live out in the county. I would think quite a lot. More people are moving out into the rural areas.

    A person doesn't have to be oblivious about a case or not know absolutely anything about it in today's time. With the media accessible through so many outlets, I would think someone would have to live in a cave or under a rock to not have heard about this case that lives in Georgia. That still doesn't mean they cant judge the case fairly.

    In voir dire what could they really say they know when asked? All that has been released is they have charged Jr with the crime and the victims were bludgeoned to death. Much more info has been known before trial in other cases and the defendant still got a fair trial in the jurisdiction it happened in.

    No one that knew the families, including Guy Jr, or some of the living family members will be allowed on the jury. They will be asked that right up front.

    The economy across the country is in dire straights. It is very costly to move the trial to another county and death penalty cases already cost and exorbitant amount for the taxpayers that funds the state and the capital defense lawyers.

    I just see no justification for filing one. COVs are done when there has been too much pretrial publicity, and we know that hasn't happened, since we have all been complaining for a year that we cant get any new info on this case. lol

    I think jurors will be called in from that county and if the Judge feels they are unable to pick 12 jurors and alternates then she will consider a COV.

    The defense attorney must prove cause to get the case moved. I dont see anything he can use to get one.

    IMO
    Last edited by oceanblueeyes; 09-01-2010 at 10:55 PM.
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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  13. #157
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    Another question I have about this case is I wonder how long Guy was questioned by LE without an attorney? How many times? For how long? Innocent people ( which I believe he is) would have a tendency (it would be mine anyway) to tell the police everything I could knowing I was innocent and wanting the killers caught asap.
    LE are very skillful and some would say inappropriately manipulative in their questioning. I'm sure it was taped.
    One more thing I know nothing about. Money or no Guy could invoke his Miranda rights at any time and ask for a court appointed lawyer before any questioning. Of course if he did that (which almost all lawyers tell you do) he ( and me ) would feel it made him look guilty. Damned if you do damned if you don't. The same can be said of the junk science of "lie detectors"

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  15. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregH View Post
    Another question I have about this case is I wonder how long Guy was questioned by LE without an attorney? How many times? For how long? Innocent people ( which I believe he is) would have a tendency (it would be mine anyway) to tell the police everything I could knowing I was innocent and wanting the killers caught asap.
    LE are very skillful and some would say inappropriately manipulative in their questioning. I'm sure it was taped.
    One more thing I know nothing about. Money or no Guy could invoke his Miranda rights at any time and ask for a court appointed lawyer before any questioning. Of course if he did that (which almost all lawyers tell you do) he ( and me ) would feel it made him look guilty. Damned if you do damned if you don't. The same can be said of the junk science of "lie detectors"
    I wish we did know. I have no doubt the interview or interviews were taped and most likely will be entered into the actual trial.

    I imagine like a lot of people before they became suspects he was very talkative. We see that unfold in so many other cases where the suspect's police interviews are shown in court.

    Even though it is well known that it is best to say nothing and ask for an attorney, I am still amazed that so many don't adhere to it. Why? I really don't know because most of the time it comes back to bite them in the butt because they now have given a story that they are locked into.

    I imagine though when they told him they were going to arrest him for the other charges he did ask for an attorney. Until then......maybe he thought they fully thought he was just the family member that found his family.

    It will be interesting to see the taped interview and if they were satisfied at that time with what he was telling them or did they tell him somethings just weren't adding up?

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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  17. #159
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    May 26, 2010 From Jacksonville .com

    Williams denied a blanket motion from Vigneri and Nester, who sought to close all pretrial hearings, seal all court filings and impose a gag order on the police, lawyers, court personnel and potential witnesses.

    Vigneri asserted such secrecy was needed to prevent negative and prejudicial pretrial publicity and ensure Heinze receives a fair trial.

    Williams reserved the right to close some hearings, but emphasized her court is, and will be, open to the public.

    “I do not believe in private trials. … This is not a star chamber. The right of the public and press to have access to the courtroom is of the highest value,” Williams said.

    She declined to impose a gag order, but instructed the lawyers not to discuss the facts of the case in the news media or community. Williams asked Assistant District Attorneys Todd Naugle and Greg Perry to urge police officials not to discuss the case in the news media or community.

    Williams told the lawyers they could request a change of venue if they believe Heinze cannot receive a fair trial in Glynn County.

    She said she won't arraign Heinze for at least three months. That interval will allow the prosecution and defense to examine the potential evidence and file pretrial motions.

    Vigneri said he and Nester likely would need more time because they have only one investigator.

    “Then I suggest you tell the Capital Defender’s Office to get you another one,” said Williams, noting she will issue a court order mandating another investigator.

    Although it might be years before Heinze stands trial, Williams told the lawyers to proceed with all due diligence to prepare the case.

    “It needs to be tried when it’s ready, but also, it doesn’t need to be withering on the vine,” Williams said.


    I should have gone back and read this earlier. It's still up on the Jacksonville site and answers several of my questions. - Greg

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  19. #160
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    15 months ago but not forgotten: The tapes gain. Every time I hear them I notice something different. When asked how many people there were in the trailer, Guy responded "like six". He sounds very genuine to me.

    http://www.zimbio.com/Guy+Heinze+Jr....Video+Playlist

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  21. #161
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    Since there is absolutely no information coming out about this case I really have nothing to add.

    Hopefully by the end of next year the trial will be held.

    Sure wish there was something new to discuss.

    I miss posting with all of you on this case.

    Maybe there will be another pre-trial hearing at the first of the year that will give us a glimpse at possible new information.

    God bless all the victims and may justice be done.
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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  23. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    Since there is absolutely no information coming out about this case I really have nothing to add.

    Hopefully by the end of next year the trial will be held.

    Sure wish there was something new to discuss.

    I miss posting with all of you on this case.

    Maybe there will be another pre-trial hearing at the first of the year that will give us a glimpse at possible new information.

    God bless all the victims and may justice be done.
    I thought the pre-trial was on for May 25th 2011.

    I actually want to go for that but I dont want to travel for just that so I am hoping for a reason to HAVE to go into the state anyway.

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  25. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
    I thought the pre-trial was on for May 25th 2011.

    I actually want to go for that but I don't want to travel for just that so I am hoping for a reason to HAVE to go into the state anyway.
    OMG! That far away huh?

    Well maybe they are having it later in the year because the Judge will learn how close they are to trial time.

    She may set a trial date in the May hearing.

    I think you will really like Brunswick if you come down for the trial, Soul. It really is a quaint historic town. Jekyll Island is close by too, in case you have never been there.

    It would be great if you could attend. You could give us a daily recap on what was learned.

    Thanks for the hearing info.

    See I did learn something new after all. lol
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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  27. #164
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    I just looked up the Christopher Barrios case which was also in Brunswick, Georgia. I am using this case because of location and also because it also was a death penalty case.

    Christopher was raped and murdered in March 2007 and the first trial for one of the suspects was held in April 2009.

    So I am guessing that this trial will be held somewhere around September of 2011.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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  29. #165
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    I have thought about attending the trial myself. I don't know how realistic that is. The Court room is only so large. Do people line up to go to an open criminal trial. There is also the issue of how many days it is likely to last. Just a thought right now - Greg
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
    I thought the pre-trial was on for May 25th 2011.

    I actually want to go for that but I dont want to travel for just that so I am hoping for a reason to HAVE to go into the state anyway.
    "I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability"

  30. #166
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    I think I have the date wrong as I went looking for a link but I am not sure it is wrong yet. He had a court date may 25 of this year. I will keep looking as I marked it as a pretrial date. I had to get it from somewhere.

    Greg I agree with you. I thought about that too I dont know if people line up or not but my sister is taking some pre law classes so I have her talked into going we just need a firm dates.
    I know there is a huge chance that I couldnt get in or they could close to the public and it could last days I think it to be worth it as long as the other reasons firms up.

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  32. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
    I think I have the date wrong as I went looking for a link but I am not sure it is wrong yet. He had a court date may 25 of this year. I will keep looking as I marked it as a pretrial date. I had to get it from somewhere.

    Greg I agree with you. I thought about that too I don't know if people line up or not but my sister is taking some pre law classes so I have her talked into going we just need a firm dates.
    I know there is a huge chance that I couldn't get in or they could close to the public and it could last days I think it to be worth it as long as the other reasons firms up.
    Mark my word. lol The Judge is never going to close the courtroom from the public or the media. For that to be done the defense attorney would have to come up with a valid reason why allowing the public in would constitute Jr not getting a fair trial. Imo, she is a firm believer in open trials.

    Usually Georgia cases do not take that long. Well not as long as others that I have seen in other states.

    I would say maybe 2 weeks for the guilt/ innocence phase. I have seen murder trials in Georgia tried in three days but most of them weren't death penalty cases, which tend to take longer.

    Maybe someone could research the old articles concerning the Barrios case. It was high profile and the reporters should have written in their articles somewhere if there was a packed courtroom or not during the trial.

    I am just not sure that this case will draw as many as we think into the courtroom. Sadly, sometimes if the victims' aren't pillars of the community everyone else goes on about their business when the trial commences...unless if involves the murder of a young child.

    I really wish this trial would be televised by IS or at least one of the major Jacksonville Florida news sites would carry it live on line.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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  34. #168
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    Overcrowding in the court system is a real problem in Glynn County.

    "Fast tracking the non violent"

    http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2...k-glynn-county

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  36. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregH View Post
    Overcrowding in the court system is a real problem in Glynn County.

    "Fast tracking the non violent"

    http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2...k-glynn-county
    Not only overcrowding but the lack of funds to take care of so many in jail awaiting trial that cant make bond or no bond was set.

    I have always thought it was really advantageous to the state and to the defendant to do plea deals.... if the defendant is accepting guilt, of course.

    The system doesn't make sense sometimes. They will keep the non violent offenders in prison yet let some of the murderers, rapists and pedophiles back out on the street. California not too long ago was planning to dump pedophiles and rapists back out on the street due to overcrowding.

    Maybe with the DA willing to plea non violent cases down it will mean he can concentrate on the serious crimes in his community......such as this one, and get it to trial sooner.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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  38. #170
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    Hi,

    It's been a while. I haven't lost interest and have been following a few threads here and elsewhere, but it's tough with so little news to make an intelligent comment. I'm only a couple of hours from Brunswick and unemployed so I might be able to commute for a trial. I'm thinking about it. I don't have any connection to tourism, but May is beautiful in the SC, GA border area along the coast so if your tempted to come down, do it!

    Alright, I'm actually retired.

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  40. #171
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    Glad you posted anyway. I'm retired as well and caught up enough in this case to perhaps attend. I sent away to the Board of Tourism and got some good information. It looks like a beautiful place. High end and low end places to stay. The Courthouse seems to be just a few blocks from the Glynn County Detention Center.
    Nothing about the case in the papers, Jacksonville.com ( the most consistent source of information) or anywhere on line. Just Silence.
    Quote Originally Posted by sigsky View Post
    Hi,

    It's been a while. I haven't lost interest and have been following a few threads here and elsewhere, but it's tough with so little news to make an intelligent comment. I'm only a couple of hours from Brunswick and unemployed so I might be able to commute for a trial. I'm thinking about it. I don't have any connection to tourism, but May is beautiful in the SC, GA border area along the coast so if your tempted to come down, do it!

    Alright, I'm actually retired.

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  42. #172
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    Heinze Jr. opposes defense lawyer's withdrawal

    http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2...ithdrawal-case

    At last, some news!

    I'm not sure how smart it is for Heinze to be trying to hold on to counsel who wishes not to represent him. Seems like it might foster some resentment and he apparently has adequate other representation.

    This was filed in court papers. I have to wonder who helped Heinze with the filing, surely not the remaining legal team. Of course there are lots of jailhouse "lawyers" so it may be one of those things. Wonder when next hearing is.

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  44. #173
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    The lead attorney in this case is being re-assigned to their Atlanta office. Guy Heinze (rightly) is objecting. It sounds like the judge will have a hearing on it early in 2011

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  46. #174
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    Attorney leaving the Guy Heinze case ?
    Story:

    http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2...ithdrawal-case

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  48. #175
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    It seems unfair to transfer the Lead attorney to another of the same office? He has been preparing for a year.

    y Teresa Stepzinski

    BRUNSWICK - Guy Heinze Jr., who faces the death penalty if convicted of murdering his father and seven others last year, is asking a judge to force his lead defense lawyer to stay on his case.

    Joseph W. Vigneri of the Georgia Capital Defender's Office has asked Chief Superior Court Judge Amanda F. Williams to allow him to withdraw from Heinze's legal team - triggering an objection from Heinze, court documents filed Monday show.

    A senior staff trial lawyer, Vigneri said in his motion asking to withdraw that he no longer is able to represent Heinze because he was reassigned to capital defender's central office in Atlanta effective Nov. 1.

    Vigneri had been working in the defender's Brunswick regional office when he was assigned Heinze's case last year.

    The reassignment, Vigneri said, "was based solely on geographic/travel considerations ... and was in no way related to my job performance, either generally or specifically with respect to Mr. Heinze's case."

    If Williams grants his withdrawal, then Vigneri's co-counsel, Charles M.J. Nester, who is the supervising attorney for the Brunswick office, will become Heinze's lead lawyer. The defense team also will include H. Burton Baker and Newell M. Hamilton, both senior staff trial lawyers, Vigneri said in his motion.

    The change won't disrupt Heinze's defense because he's still represented by the defender's office, Vigneri said in a letter notifying Heinze.

    Heinze has objected and has asked Williams to hold a hearing on the matter. Neither Heinze nor Vigneri specified Heinze's objections in the court documents filed Monday.

    Vigneri asserts the law requires Williams to listen to Heinze's objections in a hearing closed to prosecutors, the public and news media before ruling.

    Williams had not set a hearing date as of Wednesday.

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