This thread was a great idea. I think it's time for possible psych insight on TPS.
I think Narcissistic PD (Malignant type) is a good start.
Last edited by DaneBramage; 02-03-2010 at 10:58 PM. Reason: My brain is broked
The above link to cafemom is VERY enlightening! She claims her husband got a doctor to prescribe Prozac to her (there's that blaming again) along with other anti-depressants and an ANTI-PSYCHOTIC.
I can tell you that a physician would NOT prescribe an anti-psychotic medication for ordinary run-of-the-mill depression. Psychosis is very very serious.
Borderlines are known for rejecting the diagnosis and refusing treatment, insisting that it is OTHERS that are messed up, not them. This is looking pretty familiar. If this is a person who SHOULD be on anti-psychotic medication, it certainly could explain some of the delusional behavior we have seen. Just sayin'.....
The "Autobiography" casts a huge light on TPS' perception and from what I read there, paranoia screams out.
Everybody is conspiring against her.
With a definite Cluster B (which envelops the borderline, narcissistic, histrionic and antisocial) as an Axis II diagnosis (dx for short), the paranoia indicates to me a high probability if an Axis I disorder (possibly bi-polar or a psychotic disorder).
I believe that if she keeps talking she will reveal more and more. She can't help herself.
I also believe that Logan has taken the place if her ex-husband in her mind and the attempted "hostile adoption" of Gabriel was a "re-do" of the scenario where she lost her birth children.
I soooo totally see that paranoia in her blog, as in what her husband had done to her (putting her on medication?) and now it is all about what Logan has done to her.
I wish we knew more about her suicide attempt; did her children witness any of that? I believe she stated it was an overdose. What was her status on alcohol/prescription medication abuse, if any?
I wonder if her ex couldn't let her drive because she woudn't have been safe to do so in her disturbed/medicated state, especially with children. I notice at the end of her little blog she states that if anyone wants to know even more details *yikes* she would be happy to tell more (recruiting partisan sympathizers?) This certainly puts a whole new spin on her 'book', doesn't it?
Something tells me that missing year when she "couldn't find" her kids might be a vital piece of this puzzle.
In following these types of crimes, it always seems that, in looking back, there were lots and lots of warning signals that just got overlooked and ignored, those darn 'hiccoughs' that are easy to minimize at the time but are HUGE in retrospect. *sigh*
Also regarding the "autobiography", I think this is her distorted account and designed to present herself in the most positive of light. She is presenting herself as a victim here and IMO the PTSD was self-diagnosed. In her mind PTSD would be seen as a victim's diagnosis therefore more acceptable than the dx the doctor had given..
Don't forget her children in Africa... She is an awesome mom. (In her mind.)
Last edited by DaneBramage; 02-04-2010 at 04:54 AM.
Some patterns of a dominant person:
Dominant individuals are assertive; they are tough, strong-willed, outspoken, competitive, and unsentimental. Their power-oriented tendencies being evident in occasional intransigence, stubbornness, and coercive behaviors.
The most extreme variants of this pattern are aggressive; they are intimidating, domineering, Many insist on being seen as faultless; rarely conceding on any issue—even in the face of evidence negating the validity of their position. they also perceive themselves as powerful;
Use to know someone like this, was what I picked up on, maybe Im wrong, but I do see some of this,
What do you think ?
Remember- the opinions expressed in this thread are merely theoretical in nature and are not in any way to be used as a clinical diagnosis or label.
Since this is not a clinical setting all that can be done here is theorize possible diagnostic indicators found in documented behaviors and historical evidence.
The mods will decide if any lines are crossed here based on this criteria.
Ok now maybe in right forum... this fits tammi I think. Psychopathic narcissism
Intersting article re psychopathic narcissism (hmm)
Charming, seductive and eloquent they are, and they use all those abilities when lying, manipulating and betraying. Psychopaths and narcissists can slash a path of human misery through lives of dozens, or hundreds, and even thousands, of people. They bring pain and suffering to nearly everyone they touch. And yet, somehow, they manage to convince their victims that it is they who are being wronged.
There is a reason for that: they actually do feel that they are victims because somewhere inside, they know that they are not like the majority of the human population, and this knowledge is coupled with a fundamental need to be in control, to be in charge. That they - a minority - cannot be in charge of the majority appears to them as a great injustice, one that they will fight to the death to right!
What you - a normal person - need now more than anything else is knowledge of what you are going through, or have been through, and an understanding of exactly what you are dealing with, in order to make sense of it all.
Psychopathy and narcissism are just two of several related and often overlapping conditions that afflict a portion of the population. These people are, effectively, human beings that are intraspecies predators; they look human, but they operate on a foundation that is more akin to that of an animal than a human.
Since all creatures seek survival, these pseudo-humans learn very early what behaviors get them what they want and need, including pretense to normal human emotions and empathy. Many of them can maintain this pretense - this "Mask of Sanity" - for a very long time; others let the mask slip sooner, or more often.
What they want varies by individual, but the most persistent need seems to be control and those things that give them control. For the brighter members of this taxon (for that is what it surely is), that means power and money; for the lazier and less driven members, it can mean other things: control over a spouse, children, a family, or the maintenance of a parasitic lifestyle at your expense. In extreme cases, this urge for control can be expressed in murder
So do I put this here, correct me if I'm wrong?
I know we're all bugged by how she talks...or how the uncredible satin speaks through her heart....anyway. I am puting together a list of all the strange words/phrases she uses, hoping to find a similarity with any specific religious radical groups/adoption agencies. I just don't know of anyone who talks like her. Where was she really raised? She talks like she was raised in the 1800s. Here's what I have, please add more...
uncredible (these first 2 were more for fun)
that baby (which EJ uses too...the baby)
Heart of hearts (and EJ, In my heart I believe they're good people)
God will give grace for that
Think twice about holding your tongue
hasty (EJseems too young for that word...I made a hasty decision)
The men with the guns
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
― Franklin D. Roosevelt
Gabriel Johnson and Sylar Newton. Come home safely Gabriel Johnson! RIP Sweet Sylar.
After listening very intently to the interview that she did when she got out of jail, I really thing she is taking her won experience (the memory of which is likely messed up in her own head) and tranferring that to EJ and Gabe. She talks about how Logan didn't want Gabriel, he only wanted to hurt her, see her in trouble and I would bet that she said the exact same thing to many people while she was losing custody of her kids.
I also think that is able to make herself believe her own lies, build her own reality. She says in the interview that if Jack took "Her Daughter" and said he wasn't coming back...she seems to forget that we already know that out of the two of them, Jack actually has more claim to H than she does. In her reality, H is her child, the people that created H don't even likely exist in her world. We know that she follows the media, yet she has chosen to say nothing about TW, H's father, because I really believe that in her world, he does not exist. She cut him out, she gave him up for dead, so to her, he may as well be dead.
I think this is also the threat that she's making against Logan at the end of the video. In her world, being cut out is as bad as dying, so to her, if she cuts Logan out of her world, it's the same as killing him.
(I'm sorry if this is in the wrong place, there are so many Tammi threads and I am really trying to post in the right spots.)
Last edited by not_my_kids; 02-04-2010 at 08:30 PM.
JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.
I also have noted her compulsion to exagerate. In her cafemom bio, she says her ex was much much older than her, but from the records I have seen, I believe he was 10 years older. If she was 18, that would make him 28. Am I wrong to think that might be a 'little' older, but doesn't rate the category of "much much" older? She also answered a person on her FB who asked her what the charges are about that they are nothing, its about the Craig Cherry thing that happened LONG before Elizabeth left with Gabriel. REally? How many days was that anyway? LONG before? I see this kind of thing with Tammi alot. I believe she must think people believe whatever spills out of her mouth and she is a compulsive liar. She just can't seem to help herself.
Then she marries Jack who is twenty years her senior.
Can you say "daddy issues"?
Re: the pattern of lying and embellishment. We are continually seeing evidence that the truth is malleable and often inconvenient in her eyes. Everything is presented through her distorted filter and if the truth doesn't fit, it is discarded for information (fabricated) that does fit.
It is clear that TPS dominates JS. She probably delegates decisions that are "boring" to her (which really means incompetent) like financial decisions, etc.
Here in the South we say "she wears the pants in that family".
The threat to Logan was punctuated with an image of Tammi that will stay in my mind for a long time. I saw an emotionless ire that I can only describe as chilling.
In addition to your post Krystalsea, I found this list of indicators of psychopathy in the Wikipedia. The author states that this is not a diagnostic list, but it echoes some of the points in your post.
Beside some of these characteristics I comment in parenthesis.
1. Glibness/superficial charm (as seen on NG and other mass media appearences)
2. Grandiose sense of self-worth (as in the myriad biographical/resume embellishment seen on the net)
3. Pathological lying (evidenced on the internet and in media and to LE)
4. Cunning/manipulative (duh)
5. Lack of remorse or guilt (I broke the law no big deal/ I lied to a Judge whatever)
6. Emotionally shallow (the only honest emotion I've seen is anger)
7. Callous/lack of empathy (look at her treatment of Logan)
8. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions (going to tear LE apart for "trumped up charges")
Socially deviant lifestyle
1. Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
2. Parasitic lifestyle (her marriage to Jack is for her comfort-See the Mansion and Mercedes)
3. Poor behavioral control (inability to not bask in the media spotlight/multiple marriages)
4. Promiscuous sexual behavior (this is unknown)
5. Lack of realistic, long-term goals (this is probable given her tendency to embellish the past- the unfinished book dreams of fame and fortune)
6. Impulsiveness (searching the internet to "get a baby")
7. Irresponsibility (unlicensed medical practices in Tennessee)
8. Juvenile delinquency (would love to see those records)
9. Early behavioral problems (unknowable- bed wetting, animal cruelty and fire starting are typical)
10. Revocation of conditional release (reneging on a deal with authority, LE should be warned here)
I wonder if there were any catastrophic fires in her childhood...
Last edited by DaneBramage; 02-05-2010 at 01:28 AM. Reason: forgot a word...
I'm putting in my vote for histrionic personality disorder.... whadya think?
"Until you do right by me, everything you think about is gonna crumble... until you do right by me, everything you think about is gonna fail."
Here is the link taken from the DSM-IV TR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona...c_disorders.29
What is your take on Tammi's statement right after she was released from jail on bond?
She makes this "I know you are but what am I " kind of juvenile statement -- getting in another bash at Logan -- in this tape she asks why Logan waited until now to trace Elizabeth's travels when he could have done so right after she told Logan that Elizabeth will not bring him back until he signs the papers (blackmail)
How can she not see what she is saying?
The statement is made at :57
Has she no grasp of reality?
IMO this statement speaks volumes about both her state of mind and involvement in this case
Shallowness of emotion: She says it's so sad for all those people still stuck in jail. She says it because expressing sympathy is regarded as good, but she does not feel it in her bones... she doesn't say "I am sad..." or elaborate. IMO, that's because she has nothing to draw from.
Grandiose sense of self: I am giving this info to law enforcement, Yes, Logan I will help you find your son, I have worked so hard to build a successful business (that was illegal in the state it started off in and is very low rated by reviewers.)
Emotional immaturity: Her momentary shift to venom from relieved at her last big presser event. Also indicates mood swings.
Odd movements of the body: When you watch her on the release tape, she bounces around very loosely when she is trashing Logan, almost like a teenager would do. She also has the tendency to always hold her head cocked as if the light bothers her when she in the sun or bright spotlight. Indicative of brain injury or processing issue???
Vanity: Very interested in appearances. Even when not physically present, this is still present in a kind of "what would the neighbors think" sort of way.
Lying: A very large amount of the things that come out of Tammi's mouth are lies, we know this. I am not ready to say it is pathological yet, as most of them have been to cover her butt or make her look better...or to try to keep herself from being arrested.
Completely MOO and just things that I have observed.
JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.
I see TPS as a narcissist and I also see her as someone with Oppositional defiance disorder, in adults it is known as antisocial personality disorder, I know that she does not seem to be very "antisocial" however look at the defintion of ODD, after the age of 18 it is known as antisocial personality disorder.
1. A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are present:
Note: Consider a criterion met only if the behavior occurs more frequently than is typically observed in individuals of comparable age and developmental level.
1. often loses temper
2. often argues with adults
3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
4. often deliberately annoys people
5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
7. is often angry and resentful
8. is often spiteful or vindictive
2. The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.
3. The behaviors do not occur exclusively during the course of a psychotic or mood disorder.
4. Criteria are not met for conduct disorder, and, if the individual is age 18 years or older, criteria are not met for antisocial personality disorder.
If the child meets at least four of these criteria, and they are interfering with the child’s ability to function, then he or she technically meets the definition of oppositionally defiant.
She has already cooked up a defense for these charges and because they make so much sense to her, of course they will not stick.
She and JS both tipped their hands as to this defense. Her cryptic comment regarding the paternity question they raised (I won't say it here in the media but it will come out in court) implied that it would be bad news for LM.
Whoever said in another thread that TPS was going to say LM raped EJ was right on the money. She will try to justify her actions to the judge by saying she was coming to the aid of EJ who told her that she was raped by LM or someone in Arkansas. Not the truth. Not that she had to have Gabriel at any cost. Not that she took a gamble and lost.
Remember this is the third time she has been arrested for forgery. God only knows how many forged documents are out there. She is a serial forger. Any type of repeated criminal behavior indicates both Anti-Social PD and psychopathy.
That's a lot of "false witnesses".
Another interesting thing I heard was TPS' relief that JS is no longer a POI in this case and he can testify in her defense. They may want to claim spousal privilege on this one. I have a hunch that LE has a ton of evidence that JS won't want to talk about in front of a Judge.
Another mis-statement TPS made that morning is this quote:
"TS: Um, yeah, there were some things that they did release. Um, they released a paper full of, um, full of things that I don’t, I can’t even describe. It was ridiculous. Um, it’s basically like cutting and pasting little pieces of things together. But forgetting, this and this and this, to prove my innocence. It was unbelievably ludicrous. And it’s okay, cause we have all of those pieces to fit back in there that creates all of our innocence."
This gives me insight into TPS thought processes. Proof (reality) and creation are synonymous. She creates the proof she needs in any circumstance.
It's curious how she had all those marriages (couldn't sustain a relationship), but has managed to sustain a relationship with Jack for what, 10 or 12 years? What's different about him? Birds of a feather?
ETA: Not trying to go off topic to Jack. Rather thinking from the standpoint of her psychology - what is it about her that she is able to sustain a longterm relationship with Jack vs others.
Last edited by BeanE; 02-05-2010 at 09:23 AM.