The Park

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cluehunter

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I'm a long time reader but rarely have time to post, but wanted to make a few comments about the park EJ allegedly visited. I just moved from San Antonio after living there for 13 years.

Raymond Russell park is very near the area of both the motel and the bus station. It is also directly next to a cemetary, only separated by a short chain length fence. It also back to an embankment. It's very wooded just past the playground area. I hope the police thoroughly searched that area as well as considered the dumpster from the park as a possible place. I hate to think the worst, but I was always a little creeped out with the cemetary right there while I was picnicking with my kids and I find it peculiar she selected this park to mention. It's off the freeway on the way out of town. You don't just happen upon this park.
 
cluehunter said:
I'm a long time reader but rarely have time to post, but wanted to make a few comments about the park EJ allegedly visited. I just moved from San Antonio after living there for 13 years.

Raymond Russell park is very near the area of both the motel and the bus station. It is also directly next to a cemetary, only separated by a short chain length fence. It also back to an embankment. It's very wooded just past the playground area. I hope the police thoroughly searched that area as well as considered the dumpster from the park as a possible place. I hate to think the worst, but I was always a little creeped out with the cemetary right there while I was picnicking with my kids and I find it peculiar she selected this park to mention. It's off the freeway on the way out of town. You don't just happen upon this park.
Click to expand...

Thanks, cluehunter. Just wanted to note that it hasn't been verified that Eliz mentioned this specific park. That came from Yami the reporter.

Maybe we could expand this thread to note other parks near the hotel too. I had looked them up a while back and there are several.

I tend to think that there's a reason why people say certain things, and this park is a good example of what I mean by that. Regardless of what Eliz did with Gabe, I think there's a reason a park was on her mind.

She may have said it in a deliberate attempt to distract from something else, or she may have said because it was preying on her mind so much, that she couldn't keep herself from mentioning it in some context.

Thanks for starting this thread!
 
For some reason, I am beginning to feel this case is simpler than we all thought. She may of met the couple there...Or more likely the initial meeting place. Remember EJ tells half truths....As for the male and couple in her accompanyment....Maybe she made the couple think he was the father and said the child looked like her, which G totally does. I have seen many biracial children that do come out more white looking. EJ is pretty and I am sure she could find someone to go along with her plan.

But most likely set up by TS or JM.
 
It totally makes sense for Elizabeth to meet a couple at a park (SixFlaggs perhaps)
In one of the last photos she took of Gabriel he is wearing a knitted hat, perhaps she was getting him ready to go outside <to the park?>
Somewhere she said she gave Gabriel to 'a couple in the park because they seemed nice'. It is possible this was a set-up to meet prospective parents for Gabriel.

I don't believe she met a couple at Raymond Russell Park but rather SixFlaggs. Has it been confirmed that there is video footage of her and Gabriel from SixFlaggs? I'd like to see the link if anyone has it. TIA !
 
Does anyone know if the pictures from the hotel room were time stamped or has any thing in the media mentioned about what time the pictures were taken? I went and looked and couldn't find a time anywhere. Six Flgs opened at 3 PM that day, the 26th. It would be interesting to see if the pictures were taken before the surveilence of EJ and Gabriel at Six Flags. That would give me alot of hope that he is still alive.

Good point on the hat. I never put a hat on my baby unless I'm about to take him outside. When he was younger I would but not at 9 months.
 
I believe it was said that the pictures were timestamped dec 26. I'll look for a link
 
~PrinceSSa~ said:
I believe it was said that the pictures were timestamped dec 26. I'll look for a link
Click to expand...

I know it was the 26th but do you know what time? I'm hoping it's before 3 when the parked opened.
 
TXHOPE said:
Does anyone know if the pictures from the hotel room were time stamped or has any thing in the media mentioned about what time the pictures were taken? I went and looked and couldn't find a time anywhere. Six Flgs opened at 3 PM that day, the 26th. It would be interesting to see if the pictures were taken before the surveilence of EJ and Gabriel at Six Flags. That would give me alot of hope that he is still alive.

Good point on the hat. I never put a hat on my baby unless I'm about to take him outside. When he was younger I would but not at 9 months.
Click to expand...

We know the pictures were date stamped, I would assume there is a time stamp too. I was really curious when those pictures came out why the reports were saying they were date stamped, but none of the released pictures showed the stamp. Through my questioning and other people's posts, my theory is that the date stamps were retrieved electronically through a computer. Meaning that EJ didn't have the date/time stamp turned on, but when LE pulled up the files from the camera/cellphone, they got a date stamp that way. If that theory is correct, these files also have a time stamp. But I have not seen any reports that give exact dates or times for any of the pictures.
 
I'm with some others, I believe when EJ said 'park,' she meant Six Flags Amusement "Park."

I think the 'hispanic' man she met one day alone was most likely when the babysitter was watching Gabriel. EJ went to sign the adoption papers and 'hear' about the adoptive parents.

On the 26th, she met them and the 'hispanic' man at Six Flags and turned over Gabriel.

1. EJ knows the couple is WONDERFUL because the 'hispanic' man told her.
2. EJ didn't want to know the couple's name, because she wanted this to be the 'beginning of her new life.'

There was no backing down once she turned Gabriel over. She didn't know those people's name and they didn't know hers.

JMHO
fran

PS...........I think the flurry of phone calls that happened the day of the babysitter with TS & EJ and EJ & the adoption outfit in Tn was because EJ thought it would work, giving Gabriel up in Texas and that's why TS had her friend call EJ, to tell her changing jurisdicition didn't make it ok.
 
It was said that SixFlaggs opened at 3pm on dec 26. This does not mean that Elizabeth went to SixFlaggs at/or after 3pm that day. She could have been at the park <outside> before 3pm. UNLESS LE has video of her and Gabriel surrounded by other people going into/or leaving the park.
I still believe Elizabeth took Gabriel to the park AFTER she took a picture of him at the hotel wearing a knitted hat. I also don't think it matters much if she went to the park at 1pm or 5pm.
As for the couple she gave Gabriel to: I don't believe she knew the couple but may have been introduced to them by the hispanic man. Hence, '3 ppl out of the country'

Quite possible TPS has no idea who this couple is or where Gabriel may be because she would not have set up to give Gabriel to another couple when she wanted 'that baby' all to herself.

I can't remember how Victoria got into play or how far Victoria is from SA or Mexico or why the cellphone pinged there. Somehow this all fits together.
Got my thinking cap on!
 
~PrinceSSa~ said:
It was said that SixFlaggs opened at 3pm on dec 26. This does not mean that Elizabeth went to SixFlaggs at/or after 3pm that day. She could have been at the park <outside> before 3pm. UNLESS LE has video of her and Gabriel surrounded by other people going into/or leaving the park.
I still believe Elizabeth took Gabriel to the park AFTER she took a picture of him at the hotel wearing a knitted hat. I also don't think it matters much if she went to the park at 1pm or 5pm.
As for the couple she gave Gabriel to: I don't believe she knew the couple but may have been introduced to them by the hispanic man. Hence, '3 ppl out of the country'

Quite possible TPS has no idea who this couple is or where Gabriel may be because she would not have set up to give Gabriel to another couple when she wanted 'that baby' all to herself.

I can't remember how Victoria got into play or how far Victoria is from SA or Mexico or why the cellphone pinged there. Somehow this all fits together.
Got my thinking cap on!
Click to expand...

It is possible TPS has no idea, but is it possible she does and she truly loved Gabriel (in her mind) and believed LM was abusing him? Could she have rationalized that it was ok to help Elizabeth adopt him out through her contacts to keep him away from LM?
 
Concernedmomarizona said:
It is possible TPS has no idea, but is it possible she does and she truly loved Gabriel (in her mind) and believed LM was abusing him? Could she have rationalized that it was ok to help Elizabeth adopt him out through her contacts to keep him away from LM?
Click to expand...

I still believe that everything that TPS did was in order to get Gabriel for herself. I don't believe for a second that she would do anything to help Gabriel go to another couple. I believe that even after EJ was arrested she still hoped to somehow get Gabriel, especially if she called the judge on Jan 4 as it seems to imply on the charging documents. I'm leaning on San Antonio being all EJ's idea.
 
DairyGirl said:
I still believe that everything that TPS did was in order to get Gabriel for herself. I don't believe for a second that she would do anything to help Gabriel go to another couple. I believe that even after EJ was arrested she still hoped to somehow get Gabriel, especially if she called the judge on Jan 4 as it seems to imply on the charging documents. I'm leaning on San Antonio being all EJ's idea.
Click to expand...

Good points. As someone else posted, they really should find her laptop. I wonder if LE can subpoena her ISP and ask them what websites she visited? Not sure how long that data is kept...

The other possibilities are:

1.) TS did know...thought she would change jurisdiction to help them terminate LM rights, found out that wouldn't work, asked EJ to come back, EJ used the same contacts that were going to facilitate the adoption with TS to go rogue....asked them to find another couple...she just wanted to be free.

2.) TS did know about another couple with an agreement she would get Gabriel back when things died down. I think this is a very low probability....unless she didn't anticipate it to get this big.
 
Concernedmomarizona said:
Good points. As someone else posted, they really should find her laptop. I wonder if LE can subpoena her ISP and ask them what websites she visited? Not sure how long that data is kept...

The other possibilities are:

1.) TS did know...thought she would change jurisdiction to help them terminate LM rights, found out that wouldn't work, asked EJ to come back, EJ used the same contacts that were going to facilitate the adoption with TS to go rogue....asked them to find another couple...she just wanted to be free.

2.) TS did know about another couple with an agreement she would get Gabriel back when things died down. I think this is a very low probability....unless she didn't anticipate it to get this big.
Click to expand...

The only thing that makes me think TPS could have sent EJ to San Antonio is because of the laws making it easier to terminate a fathers rights. I could possibly see TPS sending EJ to TX to "change jurisdiction" in favor of eventually being able to adopt Gabriel.
 
Concernedmomarizona said:
Good points. As someone else posted, they really should find her laptop. I wonder if LE can subpoena her ISP and ask them what websites she visited? Not sure how long that data is kept...

The other possibilities are:

1.) TS did know...thought she would change jurisdiction to help them terminate LM rights, found out that wouldn't work, asked EJ to come back, EJ used the same contacts that were going to facilitate the adoption with TS to go rogue....asked them to find another couple...she just wanted to be free.

2.) TS did know about another couple with an agreement she would get Gabriel back when things died down. I think this is a very low probability....unless she didn't anticipate it to get this big.
Click to expand...


I believe the 2nd one happened.
 
I believe Janet Morris hooked her with the couple and hispanic guy (baby broker or atty) she met at the Six Flags park.

"I called (Elizabeth) and said 'look, you've got to call this girl Janet,' and so Janet basically, she called her and as far as I know, Janet told her the same thing that we've been telling her and begged her to come back. 'And if you don't come back, you could be facing these charges and these charges,'" said Tammi Smith.

I think TS told Janet that Logan was abusive and they were trying to adopt Gabriel to "save" him from this awful situation and asked her to help. Janet calls Elizabeth and EJ says there's no way it's going to happen with the Smiths because Logan already knows them...and then she gives Janet another sob story and asks her to help. Janet then sets her up with one of her San Antonio connections and it happens very fast.
 
TXHOPE said:
I believe Janet Morris hooked her with the couple and hispanic guy (baby broker or atty) she met at the Six Flags park.

"I called (Elizabeth) and said 'look, you've got to call this girl Janet,' and so Janet basically, she called her and as far as I know, Janet told her the same thing that we've been telling her and begged her to come back. 'And if you don't come back, you could be facing these charges and these charges,'" said Tammi Smith.

I think TS told Janet that Logan was abusive and they were trying to adopt Gabriel to "save" him from this awful situation and asked her to help. Janet calls Elizabeth and EJ says there's no way it's going to happen with the Smiths because Logan already knows them...and then she gives Janet another sob story and asks her to help. Janet then sets her up with one of her San Antonio connections and it happens very fast.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. TS can't come forward with everything she knows then because it would implicate her (interfering with LM's rights), implicate JM. Would explain an inconclusive lie detector test. If this happened she wouldn't know where he is, but she knows a lot of other stuff.
 
If they have EJ with Gabriel on video on the 26th outside of the Six Flags park, did they go inside the park? Is that why there isn't footage of the couple she could of met? I think if LE had footage of the couple then we would of heard about a description. I would be interested to hear more about the footage-did she wait outside and then leave alone or go inside the park??? She had to of gone there to meet someone. Why would you bring a 9 month old to Six Flags and she isn't exactly the type of mother to just take Gabriel out to do stuff for fun. hmmmm.
 
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