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Thread: MN - St. Paul, WhtFem (UP 4804), 16-30, Found in Mississippi River, Jul'77

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    MN - St. Paul, WhtFem (UP 4804), 16-30, Found in Mississippi River, Jul'77

    I've been working on Doe HotCases without pictures to see if I can find any matches on demographics alone. Here is an interesting possibility. Maybe a long-shot because of the distance, but nearly everything else falls right into place.

    The Doe Network:
    Hot Case 1409 http://doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase1409.html
    NamUs UP 4804 https://identifyus.org/en/cases/4804

    Unidentified White Female

    * The victim was discovered on July 20, 1977 in St. Paul, Ramsey County, Minnesota

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 16-30 years old
    * Approximate Height and Weight: 5'8"; 130 lbs.
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Medium length, brown hair; green eyes. Multiple abdominal stria.
    * Clothing: Green, red, blue vertically striped shirt with thinner lateral stripes; high waisted blue jeans; brown knee-high stockings; size 5 underwear. Approximate size 8 to 9 shoes.
    * Dentals: Available. Multiple dental fillings, silver and gold. Chipped teeth.

    Case History
    The victim was located in the In mississippi River, between Childs and Warner Road in St. Paul, Minnesota on July 20, 1977.

    Investigators
    If you have any information about this case please contact:
    Hennepin County ME
    Roberta Geiselhart
    612-215-6300

    __________________________________________________ ___

    Could this be Cheryl Ann Moser-Iacovone?

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ne_cheryl.html



    • Date of Last Contact: 12-Jul-77 - 8 Days before UID found.
    • Age: 17 - Within Range
    • Race: Caucasion - Match
    • Height: 5'8" - Match
    • Eyes: Green - Match
    • Hair Color: Listed as blonde, but based on photo, could be light brown - UID listed as Brown.
    • Hair Length: Medium - Match
    • Weight: 120 lbs - 10 lbs below estimate
    The only problem is the distance. 1,150 miles. Since there is very little information about her disappearance, any scenario is possible, including being kidnapped by a trucker or a Christopher Wilder cross-country psycho type.

    Also, the UID is listed as having chipped teeth, which aren't apparent in CAMI's photos.

    Is this worth a shot?
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-26-2013 at 04:50 PM.

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    I did a search on "abdominal striae" and the term appears to be another term for stretch marks. I've heard some girls can develop stretch marks simply from rapid growth and the UID report doesn't specifically state the woman was thought to have carried a child to term or near term.

    It should be an easy rule-out if there are dentals for Iacovone since the UID had gold and silver fillings.

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    I submitted this possible to Butch Huston of the Ramsey County MN coroner's office. Here is my e-mail to him:

    Mr Huston:

    As discussed in our recent telephone conversation:

    I have been reviewing missing persons cold cases to determine if I can match any of them to unidentified decedent (UID) cold cases. I found this possible match.

    Unidentified White Female
    discovered on July 20, 1977 in St. Paul, Ramsey County, Minnesota. Case #39918.

    http://doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase1409.html

    Cheryl Ann Moser-Iacovone

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ne_cheryl.html

    The following details suggest to me that this could be a match.

    • Date of Last Contact: 12-Jul-77 - 8 Days before UID found.
    • Age: 17 - Within Range
    • Race: Caucasion - Match
    • Height: 5'8" - Match
    • Eyes: Green - Match
    • Hair Color: Listed as blonde, but based on photo, could be light brown – UID’s hair listed as Brown.
    • Hair Length: Medium - Match
    • Weight: 120 lbs - 10 lbs below estimate

    The only problem that I can see is the distance (i.e., 1,150 miles between Secane PA and St. Paul MN); but since there is very little information about her disappearance, any scenario is possible (e.g., kidnapped by a trucker or a traveling serial killer).

    I ask that you look into this possible match, and let me know what you find.

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    carbuff is offline ebook Bad Fairies available from Torridbooks.com, Amazon, B&N
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    Nice work. It looks like an entirely possible match.

    If the UID were from the immediate Minnesota area, they probably would have identified her.

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    I did a zoom-in on Cheryl Iacovone's teeth. It's not conclusive whether they are chipped, but her left lateral incisor (i.e., #10) and her left canine (#11) look like they might be chipped.



    Agreed?
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 06:37 PM.

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    Agreed. I actually thought that before I saw the enlargement and think so even more having seen it. Great work Carl.

    Sure, to actually solve the case you'd have to explain how she ended up over 1,000 miles from home - but then you'd also have to explain why no one identified the body.

    There's nothing to suggest a rule out except a very slight discrepancy in hair color and plenty that's unusual - the height, the eye color, the closely matched time frame for starters.

    Of course without DNA and/or dentals there's no way to be sure but it's no stretch at all to consider these two as possible matches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    I did a zoom-in on Cheryl Iacovone's teeth. It's not conclusive whether they are chipped, but her left lateral incisor (i.e., #10) and her left canine (#11) look like they might be chipped.



    Agreed?
    I just found the NamUs case file on this UID.

    https://identifyus.org/cases/4804

    It indicates that the chipped teeth are #9 (upper left front), #10 (upper left lateral incisor) , and #23 (lower left lateral incisor):

    TOOTH 9 - CHIP ON DI ANGLE
    TOOTH 10 - CHIP ON I EDGE
    TOOTH 23 - CHIP ON MI EDGE
    ...
    GENERAL GINGIVAL RECESSION
    I had previously noted that the possible chipped teeth are #10 and #11 (left upper canine), but based on the zoom in of the teeth, #9 could possibly be chipped, and #10 definitely looks chipped. The #11 tooth is normally comma-shaped, so Cheryl Iacovone's #11 might be in its natural condition, and #23 is not visible in the photo.

    The description of "gingival recession" (i.e., receding gums) also appears to be applicable to CAMI's photo.

    It also says that there is no DNA sample, so they won't be telling me that it is a CODIS exclusion by default.

    This is looking more and more to me like it could be a good match.

    I have a dental appointment scheduled for Tuesday to get a gold crown. When I last visited my dentist, I was telling her about my involvement with UID cases, she was very interested. So much so, that she asked me to write down the URL's for Charley, DoeNet, and Websleuths. I will show this to her on Tuesday to see if she agrees with my assessment.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 06:38 PM.

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    Carl,

    You bring a great deal of insight, knowledge and logic to these cases, as well as an excellent memory for details. May I ask what it is you do (or did) professionally and what your background is? Is there any law enforcement in there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cymro View Post
    Carl,
    May I ask what it is you do (or did) professionally and what your background is? Is there any law enforcement in there?
    I am an unemployed CPA. I have no law enforcement background, although I worked the first five years of my professional career as an internal investigator at the Los Angeles County Court system investigating employee corruption. Since then, I worked as an accountant for 5 years at Princess Cruises and a year and a half at Disney.

    I have taken a few college courses in human anatomy, biology, and arson investigation (I initially wanted to be a firefighter), so I have a basic knowledge of those types of topics.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 02-14-2010 at 11:32 AM.

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    It was that year at Disney! I've been a cast member, I know...

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    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Carl, I think you are right on the money with the analysis of the tooth chips. Also, FWIW, and since you will be seeing your dentist tomorrow, there are times the teeth have a crack and they don't actually break until later for some reason, including having dental work done. I went to have a root canal, and the tooth was cracked so they couldn't complete the root canal just had to pull the tooth. It could be the jane doe had cracks at the time of death and the tooth actually broke at the crack later.

    Good luck! The miles don't look like a big deal during the summer months. It's the rough winter months they would become more of a concern.

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    Just showed this to my dentist. Of the NamUs notations, she said the following:

    TOOTH 9 - CHIP ON DI ANGLE - (DI stands for Distal Incisal, meaning the biting edge of the tooth towards the rear of the mouth)
    TOOTH 10 - CHIP ON I EDGE - (I - Incisal, or biting edge)
    TOOTH 23 - CHIP ON MI EDGE - (MI stands for Mesial Incisal, meaning the biting edge of the tooth towards the front of the mouth)

    She said that the photo is too fuzzy, and the incisal edges of the teeth are too close to her lower lip to see whether they are chipped or not. But she did say that there were clear gaps ("Diastema") in her teeth that she would have expected to have been noted.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 02-17-2010 at 02:42 AM.

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    carbuff is offline ebook Bad Fairies available from Torridbooks.com, Amazon, B&N
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    Wow, Carl, thanks for that info. VERY interesting and useful.

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    I called Butch Huston of the St. Paul Medical Examiner's office to follow-up on this case. He says that they left a call with the Secane PA LE authorities to see if he could get any identifiers for Cheryl Ann Moser-Iacovone. They responded that they have DNA on CAMI, but St. Paul never obtained a DNA sample on the decedent. Secane LE is still trying to obtain dental records but have not yet gotten back to him on that. Even if they can get dental records, the ID would be tentative, since they don't have photos or dental x-rays. They only have a written description of the UID's teeth. At that time, all of the photo evidence was in the possession of LE, and over the years, those records were lost or destroyed.

    The victim's body was buried, however, and if they could make a tentative match on the dental descriptors, they would be able to exhume the body to make a positive ID on dental or DNA.

    I also brought up that there is no mention of gaps in the teeth (i.e. "diastema") on the UID. He said that this does not necessarily mean that the victim did not have diastema. Back then, the dental descriptions were not as thorough as they could have been.

    He did say that he would contact me if he gets any additional info on this case, but that I could contact him periodically for any updates if I wanted to.

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    I just spoke with Butch Huston again. He says that he has not heard anything new from Secane PA LE, but maybe he should contact them again to see if they could get any dental info on Cheryl Ann Moser Iacovone. If that fails, there are few other options.

    He says that there are no longer even any photos of this woman's body. At the time, LE had Polaroids, but they had no good way of archiving them. Since then, with periodic record purges, they have long since disappeared.

    I also asked if there is any possibility of having the body exhumed so that a DNA profile could be extracted and placed in CODIS (not just for CAMI, but for anyone else in the system). He says that there is little likelihood of getting approval and funding to do that.

    It's a shame that somewhere, the family of a young woman still has no closure, and that after a certain amount of time, it's pretty difficult to get anyone interested in anything more than routine effort.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 04-12-2010 at 03:16 PM.

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    You're right. The real crime is giving billons of dollars to companies who can lose track of about 80% of the mony they recieve and no one bats an eye. But when LE DNA is back logged no one has the money or resources to donate or help.

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    Given the impasse on getting dental records, I tried a different tack.

    I located Cheryl's step-brother on Facebook and sent him a message.

    He replied with the following additional info.

    Cheryl's mother was married at the time to this man's father (whose surname was Iacovone). Mr. Iacovone had never adopted Cheryl, and therefore, Cheryl's surname was never Moser-Iacovone. She always went by Cheryl Ann Moser.

    He believes that Cheryl's mother lives in Media PA, and Cheryl had a half-sister that lives in Glen Mills.

    I replied to ask for their names.

    ETA - He replied with the half-sister's full name and the mother's first name. (Which I will not post here due to privacy concerns).

    I then located the half-sister in Facebook and sent her a message. Let's see where that takes me.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 04-22-2010 at 05:51 PM.

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    I just received a reply from Cheryl's half-sister.

    Yes Cheryl is my sister. Yesterday would have been her 50th birthday. We have the same mother but different fathers. Let me know how I can help.
    Here is my follow-up.

    Thanks for the reply.

    As I mentioned in my earlier message. An unidentified decedent was found floating in the Mississippi River on July 20, 1977 (8 days after Cheryl's disappearance). Very little information on this person is available, but we know that like Cheryl, she was a 5'8" Caucasian female between the age of 16 and 30, weighing approximately 130 lbs, had green eyes, and medium length brown hair (Cheryl's hair is listed as blonde, but based on the B&W photo, could be light brown). Out of a listing of 10,000 missing persons, nobody's case fits as closely to this case as Cheryl's does.

    The decedent is also listed as having three chipped teeth. Although Cheryl's teeth are shown in the B&W photo, It is possible, but unclear, that they are chipped.

    As for possible inconsistencies, it is indicated that the deceased woman had abdominal stretch marks, although I have no reason to believe that Cheryl ever had a late-term pregnancy. It did not indicate whether the decedent was thought to have carried a pregnancy to full-term (which would normally be detectable and noted if it was the case), and although pregnancy is normally the source of stretch marks, they can be caused by factors other than pregnancy.

    I have been in contact with Butch Huston of the St. Paul Medical Examiner's office regarding this possible match, and he has contacted the Ridley Township Police Department.

    The problem is this: St. Paul authorities no longer have photos of this decedent or even dental x-rays. Nor do they have a DNA sample to submit into the national DNA database (CODIS) to be compared to the DNA profiles of missing persons. Although Cheryl's DNA profile is in the CODIS database (which is not helpful in this case), they are unable to locate her dental records (which would be helpful). Given the heavy workload of law enforcement agencies, they are often unmotivated to do any extraordinary leg-work to solve a 33-year old cold case.

    The St. Paul Medical Examiner does have a written description of the decedent's dental characteristics, including which teeth are chipped, which ones include fillings, and which ones are missing. If they could make a tentative match of Cheryl's dental characteristics to those of the decedent, then they would have reasonable justification to exhume the body for a positive identification based on DNA and Dentals.

    Here is where you can be of assistance. If you are still able to obtain dental x-rays (or even any other dental records) for Cheryl, this possible match could be resolved. Please let me know if you can, and I can facilitate getting them in the hands of the St. Paul Medical Examiner's office.

    You can also be helpful in another way. Very little information is available on Cheryl's disappearance. I only know that she was last seen walking to a friend's house on July 12, 1977 and was never seen again. This is not sufficient information to decide whether it would make sense for her end up in Minnesota (1100 miles from Secane) eight days after her disappearance (although I am aware of cases in which similar things have occurred).

    If you have any other details of the circumstances of her disappearance, or a description of the clothing that she was wearing on the day she disappeared, or any additional photos of Cheryl, it would be very helpful if you would provide the information and digital copies of the photos to Meaghan Good of the Charley Project, or Helene Walstrom of the Doe Network. Let me know if you do, and I can facilitate that process as well.

    If you want to read the full details of how I came to this point, I have logged my efforts on the Websleuths.com online forum (See Link below).

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...52#post5096952

    I look forward to hearing from you, and my condolences to you and your mother for the pain and uncertainty that the last 33 years certainly have brought.

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    Cheryl's sister sent me a clarification that Cheryl did go by the last name Iacovone. Cheryl's sister is in a much better position to know than my previous source.

    She said that her mother is going through her notes, and she will have more information by Friday.

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    I just received another message from Cheryl's sister. She reiterated that she will meet with her mother on Friday, but she provided the following little bit of info:

    ... I do know that Cheryl was on her way home from someone named [XXXX XXXXX]'s house and she disappeared at a time when the Pagans and Warlocks were hanging out at the MacDade Mall and we lived really close to that mall. I don't know if the motorcycle gangs had anything to do with it or not. There was an article in The Daily Times newspaper about Cheryl in 1983. I don't know the month right now because I am not home.
    This is interesting in the context of the St. Paul case because it is not inconsistent with a person ending up far from the location of her disappearance. Motorcycle gangs do travel around the country quite a bit, although it seems a little logistically complicated to shuttle a kidnap victim 1,100 miles on the back of a motorcycle before killing her.

    But then again, just because one is a member of a "motorcycle" gang doesn't mean that he doesn't have access to an automobile.

    She mentioned the Daily Times. I am guessing that Daily Times is (or was) a local Philadelphia paper. There is a website called www.thedailytimes.com, but I am not sure if it is the same operation. And their online archive appears to go back only to 1997.

    I am hoping that her mother has a copy of the article.
    Last edited by Cubby; 05-02-2010 at 12:34 AM. Reason: adjust comment.

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    I just received a message from the sister indicating that the mother doesn't feel comfortable about discussing details of Cheryl's case with a stranger.

    She did say that she has already provided dentals to the Major Crimes Unit and the CID.

    This is very understandable, and I am thankful to have received what information that I have.

    I asked if she would provide copies of the 1983 newspaper article to Charley Project and DoeNet. She hasn't responded back, but if she doesn't, I will leave them alone and leave it at that.

    I do know for sure that they have dentals. They just have to find them. So I will contact Butch Huston on Monday and pursue it from that angle and leave the family out of it.

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    Good job Carl! Maybe the sister will join us here, that would be great!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    I asked if she would provide copies of the 1983 newspaper article to Charley Project and DoeNet. She hasn't responded back, but if she doesn't, I will leave them alone and leave it at that.
    She replied back, asking for an address or fax # where she can send the article. I provided her a mailing address because I don't have a fax machine.

    She says that the "articles are available at Widner [sic] University archives under Delco Daily Times".

    I went onto the Delco Daily Times website, and couldn't find the Widener University archives on that website. Maybe someone else on this board can find it.

    ETA: I also went to the Widener University website and looked for Delco (or "Delaware County") Daily Times in their archives section. I couldn't find it there either.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 05-02-2010 at 01:27 AM.

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    related Links

    Delaware County Daily Times Archives {Note dont know if there are charges for research}
    http://delawarecolib.newspaperarchive.com/

    related links on this website:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14938"]CHERYL ANN IACOVONE Missing: Jul 12, 1977 Secane, PA - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59954"]Cheryl Ann Moser Iacovone (17) - Secane PA, 1977 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
    Last edited by PFF; 05-02-2010 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Links of Interest

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    Quote Originally Posted by PFF View Post

    It looks like it only has archived newspapers dated 1977 and prior.

    The drop-down boxes to select a date range includes only years from 1876 to 1977.

    If you select "Daily Times 1977 to 2007" using the Title drop-down (Under "Narrow Results By ..."), they only give you editions from the year 1977.

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