02-10-2010, 03:39 AM #1
MN - St. Paul, WhtFem (UP 4804), 16-30, Found in Mississippi River, Jul'77
I've been working on Doe HotCases without pictures to see if I can find any matches on demographics alone. Here is an interesting possibility. Maybe a long-shot because of the distance, but nearly everything else falls right into place.
The Doe Network:
Hot Case 1409 http://doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase1409.html
NamUs UP 4804 https://identifyus.org/en/cases/4804
Unidentified White Female
* The victim was discovered on July 20, 1977 in St. Paul, Ramsey County, Minnesota
* Estimated age: 16-30 years old
* Approximate Height and Weight: 5'8"; 130 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Medium length, brown hair; green eyes. Multiple abdominal stria.
* Clothing: Green, red, blue vertically striped shirt with thinner lateral stripes; high waisted blue jeans; brown knee-high stockings; size 5 underwear. Approximate size 8 to 9 shoes.
* Dentals: Available. Multiple dental fillings, silver and gold. Chipped teeth.
The victim was located in the In mississippi River, between Childs and Warner Road in St. Paul, Minnesota on July 20, 1977.
If you have any information about this case please contact:
Hennepin County ME
Could this be Cheryl Ann Moser-Iacovone?
- Date of Last Contact: 12-Jul-77 - 8 Days before UID found.
- Age: 17 - Within Range
- Race: Caucasion - Match
- Height: 5'8" - Match
- Eyes: Green - Match
- Hair Color: Listed as blonde, but based on photo, could be light brown - UID listed as Brown.
- Hair Length: Medium - Match
- Weight: 120 lbs - 10 lbs below estimate
Also, the UID is listed as having chipped teeth, which aren't apparent in CAMI's photos.
Is this worth a shot?
Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-26-2013 at 04:50 PM.
02-10-2010, 11:42 AM #2
I did a search on "abdominal striae" and the term appears to be another term for stretch marks. I've heard some girls can develop stretch marks simply from rapid growth and the UID report doesn't specifically state the woman was thought to have carried a child to term or near term.
It should be an easy rule-out if there are dentals for Iacovone since the UID had gold and silver fillings.
02-11-2010, 01:05 PM #3
I submitted this possible to Butch Huston of the Ramsey County MN coroner's office. Here is my e-mail to him:
As discussed in our recent telephone conversation:
I have been reviewing missing persons cold cases to determine if I can match any of them to unidentified decedent (UID) cold cases. I found this possible match.
Unidentified White Female
discovered on July 20, 1977 in St. Paul, Ramsey County, Minnesota. Case #39918.
Cheryl Ann Moser-Iacovone
The following details suggest to me that this could be a match.
Date of Last Contact: 12-Jul-77 - 8 Days before UID found.
Age: 17 - Within Range
Race: Caucasion - Match
Height: 5'8" - Match
Eyes: Green - Match
Hair Color: Listed as blonde, but based on photo, could be light brown UIDs hair listed as Brown.
Hair Length: Medium - Match
Weight: 120 lbs - 10 lbs below estimate
The only problem that I can see is the distance (i.e., 1,150 miles between Secane PA and St. Paul MN); but since there is very little information about her disappearance, any scenario is possible (e.g., kidnapped by a trucker or a traveling serial killer).
I ask that you look into this possible match, and let me know what you find.
02-11-2010, 01:21 PM #4ebook Bad Fairies available from Torridbooks.com, Amazon, B&N
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- New England
Nice work. It looks like an entirely possible match.
If the UID were from the immediate Minnesota area, they probably would have identified her.
02-11-2010, 04:12 PM #5
I did a zoom-in on Cheryl Iacovone's teeth. It's not conclusive whether they are chipped, but her left lateral incisor (i.e., #10) and her left canine (#11) look like they might be chipped.
Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 06:37 PM.
02-11-2010, 04:36 PM #6Registered User
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Agreed. I actually thought that before I saw the enlargement and think so even more having seen it. Great work Carl.
Sure, to actually solve the case you'd have to explain how she ended up over 1,000 miles from home - but then you'd also have to explain why no one identified the body.
There's nothing to suggest a rule out except a very slight discrepancy in hair color and plenty that's unusual - the height, the eye color, the closely matched time frame for starters.
Of course without DNA and/or dentals there's no way to be sure but it's no stretch at all to consider these two as possible matches.
02-13-2010, 02:50 PM #7
It indicates that the chipped teeth are #9 (upper left front), #10 (upper left lateral incisor) , and #23 (lower left lateral incisor):
TOOTH 9 - CHIP ON DI ANGLE
TOOTH 10 - CHIP ON I EDGE
TOOTH 23 - CHIP ON MI EDGE
GENERAL GINGIVAL RECESSION
The description of "gingival recession" (i.e., receding gums) also appears to be applicable to CAMI's photo.
It also says that there is no DNA sample, so they won't be telling me that it is a CODIS exclusion by default.
This is looking more and more to me like it could be a good match.
I have a dental appointment scheduled for Tuesday to get a gold crown. When I last visited my dentist, I was telling her about my involvement with UID cases, she was very interested. So much so, that she asked me to write down the URL's for Charley, DoeNet, and Websleuths. I will show this to her on Tuesday to see if she agrees with my assessment.
Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 06:38 PM.
02-13-2010, 05:24 PM #8Registered User
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
You bring a great deal of insight, knowledge and logic to these cases, as well as an excellent memory for details. May I ask what it is you do (or did) professionally and what your background is? Is there any law enforcement in there?
02-13-2010, 07:41 PM #9
I have taken a few college courses in human anatomy, biology, and arson investigation (I initially wanted to be a firefighter), so I have a basic knowledge of those types of topics.
Last edited by CarlK90245; 02-14-2010 at 11:32 AM.
02-13-2010, 07:49 PM #10
It was that year at Disney! I've been a cast member, I know...
02-15-2010, 06:45 PM #11
Carl, I think you are right on the money with the analysis of the tooth chips. Also, FWIW, and since you will be seeing your dentist tomorrow, there are times the teeth have a crack and they don't actually break until later for some reason, including having dental work done. I went to have a root canal, and the tooth was cracked so they couldn't complete the root canal just had to pull the tooth. It could be the jane doe had cracks at the time of death and the tooth actually broke at the crack later.
Good luck! The miles don't look like a big deal during the summer months. It's the rough winter months they would become more of a concern.
02-16-2010, 06:16 PM #12
Just showed this to my dentist. Of the NamUs notations, she said the following:
TOOTH 9 - CHIP ON DI ANGLE - (DI stands for Distal Incisal, meaning the biting edge of the tooth towards the rear of the mouth)
TOOTH 10 - CHIP ON I EDGE - (I - Incisal, or biting edge)
TOOTH 23 - CHIP ON MI EDGE - (MI stands for Mesial Incisal, meaning the biting edge of the tooth towards the front of the mouth)
She said that the photo is too fuzzy, and the incisal edges of the teeth are too close to her lower lip to see whether they are chipped or not. But she did say that there were clear gaps ("Diastema") in her teeth that she would have expected to have been noted.
Last edited by CarlK90245; 02-17-2010 at 02:42 AM.
02-17-2010, 11:00 AM #13ebook Bad Fairies available from Torridbooks.com, Amazon, B&N
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- New England
Wow, Carl, thanks for that info. VERY interesting and useful.
03-01-2010, 01:52 PM #14
I called Butch Huston of the St. Paul Medical Examiner's office to follow-up on this case. He says that they left a call with the Secane PA LE authorities to see if he could get any identifiers for Cheryl Ann Moser-Iacovone. They responded that they have DNA on CAMI, but St. Paul never obtained a DNA sample on the decedent. Secane LE is still trying to obtain dental records but have not yet gotten back to him on that. Even if they can get dental records, the ID would be tentative, since they don't have photos or dental x-rays. They only have a written description of the UID's teeth. At that time, all of the photo evidence was in the possession of LE, and over the years, those records were lost or destroyed.
The victim's body was buried, however, and if they could make a tentative match on the dental descriptors, they would be able to exhume the body to make a positive ID on dental or DNA.
I also brought up that there is no mention of gaps in the teeth (i.e. "diastema") on the UID. He said that this does not necessarily mean that the victim did not have diastema. Back then, the dental descriptions were not as thorough as they could have been.
He did say that he would contact me if he gets any additional info on this case, but that I could contact him periodically for any updates if I wanted to.
04-12-2010, 03:14 PM #15
I just spoke with Butch Huston again. He says that he has not heard anything new from Secane PA LE, but maybe he should contact them again to see if they could get any dental info on Cheryl Ann Moser Iacovone. If that fails, there are few other options.
He says that there are no longer even any photos of this woman's body. At the time, LE had Polaroids, but they had no good way of archiving them. Since then, with periodic record purges, they have long since disappeared.
I also asked if there is any possibility of having the body exhumed so that a DNA profile could be extracted and placed in CODIS (not just for CAMI, but for anyone else in the system). He says that there is little likelihood of getting approval and funding to do that.
It's a shame that somewhere, the family of a young woman still has no closure, and that after a certain amount of time, it's pretty difficult to get anyone interested in anything more than routine effort.
Last edited by CarlK90245; 04-12-2010 at 03:16 PM.
By CarlK90245 in forum The UnidentifiedReplies: 31Last Post: 05-15-2016, 11:23 AM
By masnitram in forum The UnidentifiedReplies: 36Last Post: 01-28-2015, 08:08 PM
By Kymistry35 in forum The UnidentifiedReplies: 22Last Post: 12-16-2014, 12:01 AM
By CarlK90245 in forum The UnidentifiedReplies: 18Last Post: 06-18-2013, 06:20 PM
By mistivon in forum Identified!Replies: 5Last Post: 03-03-2012, 02:12 PM