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Thread: TX - Houston, HispFem 32UFTX, 16-20, w/Male ID'd Body Inside Closed Business, Aug'85

  1. #1
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    TX - Houston, HispFem 32UFTX, 16-20, w/Male ID'd Body Inside Closed Business, Aug'85

    The circumstances is this case are very unusual. I was surprised when I couldn't find any threads about it on here.

    http://doenetwork.org/cases/32uftx.html




    Unidentified Hispanic Female
    • Discovered on August 12, 1985 in Houston, Harris County, Texas.
    • Cause of Death was homicide.


    Vital Statistics
    • Estimated age: 16-20 years old
    • Approximate Height and Weight: 5'0"-5'2"; 120-140 lbs.
    • Distinguishing Characteristics: Long, dark brown hair, 15' in length; brown eyes. Her ears were double-pierced. She had a cholecystectomy scar approximately 5 1/2 inches in length (gall bladder absent), along with scars on her left wrist, left hand and both of her arms. The forehead at the hairline just to the right of the mid line show a slightly oblique scar, measuring 1/2 inch in length. The victim had a tattooof the letter "V" on her upper left arm.
    • Dentals: Available. Natural teeth in fair condition. Teeth 1, 16, 17, and 32 are noted as absent in dental description but no information as to why. Tooth 6 is mildly displaced laterally.
    • Clothing: She was wearing a red and white-striped tank top, blue jeans and gray / blue athletic shoes; white socks with red band, no sizes noted in file. Also a round pendant on a neck chain. The pendant had an arrowhead inside with three turquoise stones on the top of the arrowhead. Her ears were double-pierced and she wore two pairs of earrings with beads and shells.
    Case History
    This woman was discovered alongside the body of Thomas Rodriguez in Houston, Texas on August 12, 1985. Both were victims of homicide. They were located at 2714 Airline, in a closed business. Law enforcement was not able to find out how she got in or why she was there.

    I have been unable to find any newspaper articles in any archives regarding this case or anything regarding the male victim Thomas Rodriguez. Perhaps someone else here will have better luck. And like law enforcement, I can't even begin to imagine how she entered this closed business and her reasons for doing so. Her post mortem phot is on Namus and pretty much identical to the sketch.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 04-04-2013 at 04:20 PM. Reason: add description to thread title

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  3. #2
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    I just Mapquested the address where the victims were found. It's called PiŮatas King and it's a party store. I can't find any info however on whether it was PiŮatas King in 1985 or if it was a different type business at the time.

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  5. #3
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    Bump!

    BUMP! This case seems like police didn't care too much. This doesn't seem like it should have been hard to crack. Can anyone find ANYTHING about the KNOWN victim, or even the crime?

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    for what it is worth, I looked through some records at ancestry.com and there is a TX death record for Thomas Rodriguez for 12 Aug 1985, Harris County. No other information such as SS# or DOB. I looked at females who died on the same date in Harris County and in addition to the women who were named, there was an entry "individual". I guess that is our Jane Doe.

    I tried to get an age for Thomas but there was no corresponding record in the Social Security Death Index either as Thomas or Tomas. so I cannot get a date of birth for him.

    I can only surmise that he had identification on him and that's why they had a name. you would think that LE would have knocked on a few doors to ask about any lady friends.

    perhaps if any of our sleuthers lives in Houston and has access to old microfilms at a public library, I would be interested to read what the news accounts were back in Aug 1985.

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    I have no idea who to contact for more info on Thomas Rodriguez. Even if I did, I have a feeling that they would give me much info (if any) because I believe that Thomas knew who this girl was. If that's the case, authorities wouldn't want to divulge any clue to the public for fear of jeopardizing the investigation.

    Given where they were found, I believe that Thomas and this girl were involved in some illegal activities.

    Personally, although I can't imagine how these victims entered this building, I think a couple things could have happened:

    1) Thomas and Jane Doe were involved in drugs and for some reason chose this closed business as their spot for transactions. Either Thomas and Jane were the dealers and their customer got angry with the quality of the drugs and killed them. Or they were attempting to pay their dealer and a money-related argument ensued and they were killed.

    2) Thomas, Jane, and at least one other person were attempting to rob the business and the third individual killed them for some reason, presumably without robbing the place since I can't imagine that the police would not have at least mentioned if anything was stolen from the business.

    If Thomas and Jane Doe were around the same age (Jane is estimated to be 16-20 years old), could this have even been a teenage prank of some kind and they happened upon some type of illegal activity and were killed to ensure their silence?

    I wonder if Thomas and this girl were a couple, or just friends. Maybe they didn't even know one another at all, although I find that unlikely.

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    Warning: Autopsy photos: Graphic!

    http://www.harriscountytx.gov/ifs/Un...entFliers.aspx

    Photo of girl and jewelry on the Harris County Forensic Center Website
    Last edited by Kimster; 05-29-2013 at 01:08 PM. Reason: added graphic warning in title
    For I the Lord thy God will hold they right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. ~Is 41:13

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  13. #7
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    The more I look at this young lady's jewelry, the more I think that she was more like Native American than Latina. However, that may not mean anything. She could have been Latina but liked Native style jewelry.

    Could she have been an illegal immigrant? That might explain why no one appears to be searching for her. If she really was as young as 16 (I personally think she looks like she's in her early 20s, but that's just my opinion), perhaps she was a runaway from Mexico or some other Latin American whose parents never thought of looking for her in the United States.
    Last edited by Bobby88; 05-28-2013 at 01:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houston Mom View Post
    http://www.harriscountytx.gov/ifs/Un...entFliers.aspx

    Photo of girl and jewelry on the Harris County Forensic Center Website
    I know from living in Houston for a year that it is an incredibly expansive city, but that is a disheartening number of unidentified.

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    http://www.procuraduria.gov.co/

    Does anyone read enough Spanish to see if this site would help us?
    For I the Lord thy God will hold they right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. ~Is 41:13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houston Mom View Post
    http://www.procuraduria.gov.co/

    Does anyone read enough Spanish to see if this site would help us?
    I think it's just Colombian government stuff. I couldn't find anything about missing or wanted persons. Not sure exactly what you're looking for, though.

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    The case description on the Doe Network says "Law enforcement was not able to find out how she got in [the building] or why she was there".

    Notice that they say that LE didn't know how she got in or or why she was there. Does this mean that they kind of expected Thomas to be found there, but were surprised that this girl was with him at the time?

    It's probably just a misprint and was meant to say that law enforcement didn't know why either one of them were there or how they entered. But since we really don't know anything about Thomas Rodriguez other than his name, it does make you wonder.

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  21. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houston Mom View Post
    http://www.procuraduria.gov.co/

    Does anyone read enough Spanish to see if this site would help us?
    I speak Spanish fluently (feel free to pm me anything you need looked at in the future). That website is for the Attorney General of Columbia. Whether it would be helpful to us is unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by linniluna View Post
    I speak Spanish fluently (feel free to pm me anything you need looked at in the future). That website is for the Attorney General of Columbia. Whether it would be helpful to us is unlikely.
    Thanks! I think this is the site I was trying to post. Missing in Mexico:

    http://www.ssp.gob.mx/extraviadosWeb...aviados_page_2
    For I the Lord thy God will hold they right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. ~Is 41:13

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    Here are some Mexican women who went missing between 1984 and 8/12/85 on Mexico. But there are no pictures.

    http://www.ssp.gob.mx/extraviadosWeb...owController_1

    Something tells me that our Houston Jane Doe, regardless of where she's from, was probably not reported missing.

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    Unless we get a middle name on the male victim I dont think we could find any sort of news article. That name is just far to popular. Even factoring certain dates at times does not work. The name is the most important part of the search.

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    Alright, here is what I was able to find from the site you linked. keep in mind that these would only be possible if someone went missing in Mexico and ended up in Houston. That circumstance seems unlikely to me but I wonít rule it out. The problem with the profiles on this site is that many donít have photos and the details they give is quite sparse but Iíll give you what Iíve got. I donít think any of these are likely but itís better to give them a look and move on then ignore it and wonder. Translated to the best of my ability, sometimes colloquialism can be an obstacle.

    http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%...lr2HxFjmhtdrCw

    Name: Rosa Isela Olvera Rivera
    missing since: 3/17/1985
    circumstances: left home with friends & never returned
    sex: female
    date of birth: 8/27/1967
    height: 150cm
    weight: 50kg
    body type: average
    complexion: light tan
    face: round, small
    eyes: medium, slanted, brown/black
    hair: thick, long, straight, black
    mouth: average
    nose: wide, flat, average
    forehead(Iím not positive): regular
    eyebrows: semi-full, unibrow, black
    lips: medium pink/rose
    chin: medium round
    distinguishing characteristics: none

    See what I mean? A lot of the above seems a bit subjective to me... i mean, what is a regular forehead? alright, next...

    http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%...b3mONOQovx4XOA

    Name: Marciela Lopez Savedra
    missing since: 4/8/1984
    circumstances: left voluntarily (runaway?)
    sex: f
    dob: 03/07/1973
    height: 162cm
    weight: 68kg
    body type: skinny
    complexion: white/pale
    face: oval, small
    eyes:small, round, light brown
    hair: medium, normal, black, either chinese or curly (itís referred to as chino, and I am not perfect)
    mouth: small
    nose: flat, skinny, little
    forehead: broad
    eyebrows: sparse, angled downward, black
    lips: thin, purple?
    chin: small, round
    distinguishing characteristics: none

    And last, this one does have a picture. http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%...d07i7mgMbZ9z0g

    Name: Glafira Miguel Garzon
    missing since: 03/05/1971
    sex:f
    dob: 03/20/1965
    height:80cm
    weight: 18kg
    body type: average
    complexion: light tan
    face: small, round
    eyes: medium slanted light brown
    hair: normal, dark chestnut, straight, short
    mouth: small
    nose: flat, wide, small
    forehead: regular
    eyebrows: semi-full arched upward, black
    lips: thin, pink/rose
    chin:round, small
    circumstances: her father says that on the day she disappeared he sent his daughter to take an order to the store (ďLa PerlitaĒ) which was located half a block from their house. When he saw how long it had been and that Glafira hadnít returned he went out looking for her. She hasnít been found.
    distinguishing characteristics: a little ball of flesh on her right earlobe (because of an earring)

    these are missing persons from the site Houston Mom posted that I though fit the timeline and translated so y'all wouldn't have to wonder what it said.

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  31. #17
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    Thanks. I don't think any of them are our victim.

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    The first thing I noticed about our UID is her eyes were "Almond". Could that be what your site terms "slanted"?
    For I the Lord thy God will hold they right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. ~Is 41:13

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  34. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houston Mom View Post
    The first thing I noticed about our UID is her eyes were "Almond". Could that be what your site terms "slanted"?
    Short answer: Due to cultural differences in identification, yes it is quite possible.


    Long answer: Yes it's possible, but I can't say definitively since I've never used the term "ojos rasgados" myself and Spanish can vary a lot depending on the country/region. With further search I found many questions from Spanish speakers looking for a translation of "ojos rasgados" and they often described an "asian type" eye. There seems to be a bit of a cultural divide because we don't have an English term that means the same as "ojos rasgados (which when not referring to eyes means ragged)". The best way I can describe what it means is that it's an eye that has an epicanthic fold. I've seen Renee Zellwegger described as having "ojos rasgados".

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  36. #20
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    Here's my facial reconstruction for this Jane Doe:

    Last edited by CarlK90245; 09-15-2014 at 01:09 AM.

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    Could "V" stand for Valdez?

    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/ca...nt_page=photos


    OOPS, DNA complete on both so not a match.......?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Houston Mom; 06-29-2013 at 05:39 PM.
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    The Jane Doe looks more Native American than Hispanic. Or possibly something like Peruvian or Bolivian with a strong Inca ancestry, or Guatemalan with a strong Mayan ancestry.

    But the turquoise arrowhead pendant on her necklace would also seem to suggest Native American (perhaps Navajo or Hopi).
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 06-30-2013 at 03:28 AM.

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  41. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    The Jane Doe looks more Native American than Hispanic. Or possibly something like Peruvian or Bolivian with a strong Inca ancestry, or Guatemalan with a strong Mayan ancestry.

    But the arrowhead pendant on her necklace would also seem to suggest Native American.
    Guatemalan is a very strong possibility, but I wouldn't rule out the others. You've done a magnificent job with this reconstruction. She doesn't even look dead except right around the lips. Very fierce young woman.

    Usually when people are found dead in a closed store, it's the owner or shift manager and one or more employees or customers. We've had a couple incidents like that around here -- people gunned down for the contents of the cash drawer, or in one case for a couple of cases of beer. But you'd think if that was the case here, they'd have mentioned it.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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    In my opinion/experience, she doesn't look Guatemalan/Mayan to me.

    Mayans have a number of genetic characteristics that could make it easy to rule out. Almost all Mayans have type O blood.

    Here are some other physical characteristics of Mayans: http://www.brighthub.com/science/gen...es/118810.aspx
    Unless I've provided a link, most of what I say is my own opinion. Sometimes, I'm thinking out loud and may explore avenues I don't necessarily think are true, but I'm always aware I could be wrong, so I check other stuff out.

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    Carl90245 do you mind if I e-mail Harris County Forensic Center your reconstruction. Dr. Derrick may be able to get it put on NamUs!!. Also there are several Native American websleuth members that need get it out to their population.

    BTW, this possibility has her eyes...

    http://www.missingkids.com/missingki...archLang=en_US
    Last edited by Houston Mom; 06-30-2013 at 11:16 AM.
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