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  1. #1
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    The papers Elizabeth signed

    "She did definitely describe the people and what they look like, they're definitely in San Antonio, she (Elizabeth) did sign paperwork, but they did not notarize it or anything like that," said Smith.

    The original link for this statement is no longer active with this story so the best I can offer is a link to Angel Who Cares post in the media thread [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4679440&postcount=15"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months News Media and Updated Information ONLY. No Discussion.[/ame]

    So knowing that Elizabeth signed papers of some sort I'm guessing that this is what she signed http://www.texaslawyershelp.org/tyla...tachment.86703 an Affidavit of voluntary relinquishment of parental rights.

    If this is what she signed then this document would be filed in the County in which it was signed...Bexar (pronounced Bear) County, provided it was filled out with the County name and not left blank. I wonder if anyone has been to the courthouse to see if this document has been filed?

    I suppose if it was left blank it could have been filed in any County in Texas if filled in and notarized after she signed it.

    Any thoughts and would the filing of such a document be a public record?
    Last edited by momtective; 02-19-2010 at 05:49 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by momtective View Post
    "She did definitely describe the people and what they look like, they're definitely in San Antonio, she (Elizabeth) did sign paperwork, but they did not notarize it or anything like that," said Smith.

    The original link for this statement is no longer active with this story so the best I can offer is a link to Angel Who Cares post in the media thread Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months News Media and Updated Information ONLY. No Discussion.

    So knowing that Elizabeth signed papers of some sort I'm guessing that this is what she signed http://www.texaslawyershelp.org/tyla...tachment.86703 an Affidavit of voluntary relinquishment of parental rights.

    If this is what she signed then this document would be filed in the County in which it was signed...Baxer (pronounced Bear) County, provided it was filled out with the County name and not left blank. I wonder if anyone has been to the courthouse to see if this document has been filed?

    I suppose if it was left blank it could have been filed in any County in Texas if filled in and notarized after she signed it.

    Any thoughts and would the filing of such a document be a public record?
    Isn't it Bexar county?
    Not trying to nitpick your post, just don't want any confusion for myself or anyone else.
    I agree that what (IF) Elizabeth signed was most likely a document to relinquish her parental rights.
    Last edited by NewMommy09; 02-19-2010 at 07:31 PM.
    There is always HOPE!!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewMommy09 View Post
    Isn't it Bexar county?
    Not trying to nitpick your post, just don't want any confusion for myself or anyone else?
    I agree that what (IF) Elizabeth signed was most likely a document to relinquish her parental rights.
    Yes, it is Bexar (pronounced Bear)...my typo. Don't you know I am the queen of editing... almost all of my posts are edited because I catch my typos after the fact...lol

  4. #4
    Looks like a question for the Legal Questions thread.

  5. #5
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    I think, that relinquishing parental right falls under the child protection and thus highly confidential arena.

    But, I am typically wrong.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    I think, that relinquishing parental right falls under the child protection and thus highly confidential arena.

    But, I am typically wrong.
    LE should be able to access it though, right? I'm just hoping that someone has at least checked.

    Also notice there must be two witnesses with addresses and a notary and although I don't see it on the doc in the link there should also be a place for the agent to sign, whether it be DPRS, an attorney or an adoption agency representative.

  7. #7
    For reference, Tammi on NG, Jan 13:

    And she said that she went ahead and signed the papers. She signed custody over to them and I asked her, was it notarized? She said no. And she said she put the baby in the car seat and they walked out the door with him.

    ETA:
    On the same show, Tammi talks about the papers she and Eliz signed Dec 9:
    SMITH: That`s not what happened. I don`t know if Michelle`s been following the story. She didn`t leave her baby with us at the airport. She called us seven months later and she called us and we came to her house. We talked to her. We signed guardianship papers and had them notarized.

    Just wanted to point out that she uses different terminology referring to the papers. One's custody, the other guardianship. No idea if that means anything.
    Last edited by BeanE; 02-19-2010 at 07:27 PM.

  8. #8
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    I posted a response under Legal Questions.

    "It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94

  9. #9
    Just posting for reference:

    "She said, 'I was in the hotel room... that they came in my hotel room. I held (Gabriel), and we talked, and I signed the paper,' which obviously was not notarized, and then she put the baby in the car seat. They left her hotel. She did not see the baby in the car," explained Smith.

    http://www.woai.com/news/local/story...T5x3nQa8A.cspx

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    I think, that relinquishing parental right falls under the child protection and thus highly confidential arena.

    But, I am typically wrong.
    here in Tn, when a parent relinquishes there rights, they have a court date
    judge takes the parent into chambers and explains to them what they are doing.

    My sons bio mom, requested me to come with her into chambers,
    he explained everything in detail to her, that she had 10 days to change her mind
    he gave her a phone number and said no matter what time of the day or night if she decided she wanted to end this .. to call the number and he had to come and tear the papers up
    she had to midnight on the 10 day


    now if the state terminates the right the parents have 30 days to appeal it


  11. #11
    When I gave up my daughter, I signed two sets of papers. The first was while I was still in the hospital, declaring my intent to proceed with an adoption (and to work with the agency I'd chosen). The second set, the relinquishment paperwork, was signed in court in front of a judge.

  12. #12
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    those papers would be sealed, however...I doubt they would have filed it anyways since it's an illegal adoption
    "I may have been to hell and back, but I am strong enough to walk through hell
    with a smile on my face and with my head held high and my feet firmly on
    the ground." - Michelle Knight

  13. #13
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    Yeah, I'm thinking if the "adoptive" parents were going to go through with this sort of "adoption", they aren't going to be filing any papers with the court. I don't really know if I believe any sort of papers were even signed.
    100 years from now, it won't matter what kind of car you drove or how big your house was. What will matter is that you were important in the eyes of a child.


  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=BeanE;4832077]For reference, Tammi on NG, Jan 13:

    And she said that she went ahead and signed the papers. She signed custody over to them and I asked her, was it notarized? She said no. And she said she put the baby in the car seat and they walked out the door with him.

    ETA:
    On the same show, Tammi talks about the papers she and Eliz signed Dec 9:
    SMITH: That`s not what happened. I don`t know if Michelle`s been following the story. She didn`t leave her baby with us at the airport. She called us seven months later and she called us and we came to her house. We talked to her. We signed guardianship papers and had them notarized.

    Just wanted to point out that she uses different terminology referring to the papers. One's custody, the other guardianship. No idea if that means anything.[/QUOTE.

    B...I've been wanting to ask, who's Michelle ???

  15. #15
    [quote=kappy50;4843212]
    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    For reference, Tammi on NG, Jan 13:

    And she said that she went ahead and signed the papers. She signed custody over to them and I asked her, was it notarized? She said no. And she said she put the baby in the car seat and they walked out the door with him.

    ETA:
    On the same show, Tammi talks about the papers she and Eliz signed Dec 9:
    SMITH: That`s not what happened. I don`t know if Michelle`s been following the story. She didn`t leave her baby with us at the airport. She called us seven months later and she called us and we came to her house. We talked to her. We signed guardianship papers and had them notarized.

    Just wanted to point out that she uses different terminology referring to the papers. One's custody, the other guardianship. No idea if that means anything.[/QUOTE.

    B...I've been wanting to ask, who's Michelle ???
    The person calling in on the phone on NG asking a question.



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