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  1. #1
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    CA - Possible matches for: Anna Christian Waters, 5, Half Moon Bay, 1973

    I am editing this post, to add the following information to the first post within this thread, since they merge or move in date order.

    Anna Christian Waters- Unidentified Jane Does discussion.
    This thread is being opened to continue the discussion of missing child Anna Christian Waters and any possible matches to unidentified females who have not been already excluded via DNA in codis.

    The remainder of the discussion on Anna's case will remain in the spotlight forum designated for Anna. This thread allows us to discuss possible matches, without putting her family who are active participants here at WS through the emotional roller coaster of this possibility.

    I will be moving appropriate posts from the spotlight forum, to this thread as time permits.

    please, do not contact Annasmom or family regarding any possible matches. They can be discussed HERE and either Dr. Doogie or myself can make any necessary contact with regards to submitting, or seeking DNA extraction from any possible matches without DNA available.

    there are no dentals for Anna's case.

    Thank you!

    Cubby





    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Panther View Post
    This is interesting, not because I think that Diane Dye might have anything to do with Anna necessarily but because, if you scroll down, there was some consideration that she could be "Princess Doe". "Princess Doe"'s remains were found in New Jersey in 1982. She was "approximately 16" when she died. Not sure if anyone has ever looked into her as a possible match for Anna. I hope so and I hope that this was found NOT to be a potential match but here is the link in which I found mention of "princess":

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dye_diane.html

    Anna is compared to all UID's with dna in codis. If both the missing person and the UID have dna in codis that is an automatic rule out because they are always being updated and compared.
    Last edited by Cubby; 02-22-2010 at 01:32 AM.

  2. #2
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    Possible matches that are 'Jane Does'

    Expanding on my previous post.

    Anna is compared to all UID's with dna in codis. If both the missing person and the UID have dna in codis that is an automatic rule out because they are always being updated and compared. The only UIDs Anna would not have been compared to are those without DNA in codis.

    If someone runs across a situation where a possible unidentified match without DNA in codis is found please submit it via PM for either Doogie or I to discuss the possibility before moving further.

    While the general rule of thumb at WS is family read or participate here at their risk, it has been mentioned by Annasmom in the past it is difficult for her to focus the direction of our sleuthing on finding a deceased Anna.

    Because of her eagerness and willingness to answer so many questions and partipate here as actively as she does, we are asking the possibility of any Jane Does be submitted to Doogie or I to review before further discussion. Not to 'exclude' anyone from anything, but rather to be sensitive to Anna's family. If the potential match is a strong possible we will then bring it back to the forum for discussion.

    Thank you for your consideration and sensitivity to Anna's family with this ongoing search.

  3. #3
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    How do we know if DNA is in Codis?

    The site mentioning the unidentified person usually lists whether or not DNA is on file. If you see DNA pending or something similiar it means DNA has been sent to the lab to determine if it is suffient to enter into the data base for comparison.

    If you don't see DNA listed in either the Doe Network.org or Namus
    http://www.namus.gov/ then check with the medical examiners office or detective listed to confirm DNA is not in codis or the status of pending DNA.

    Once you have confirmed there is no dna in codis, or you would like us (I can't volunteer for Doogie, but you can send it to me and I can make contact) then we will consider the possible match for discussion on the forum.

    I have gone through everything at DoeNetwork and Namus, and found two possibles without DNA. In both cases, the information given led me to believe they were not Anna because the childs stats point to a younger child. If you run across these at either site and still have questions feel free to pm me.

    thanks!
    Last edited by Cubby; 02-14-2010 at 01:27 AM.

  4. #4
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    Requested DNA comparison to 'Little Jane Doe'

    I have submitted the 'possible match' for comparison to the Maricopa County medical examiners office requesting Anna be compared to the "Little Jane Doe" found in 1979.

    Jane Does case info
    http://www.maricopa.gov/medex/uniden...aseNum=79-0583

    She is also listed at Namus and Doenetwork, and has been previously discussed here at WS within Annas forum as a possible match.

    Until earlier this year, only dentals were available for 'Little Jane Doe' and dentals are not available for Anna. Now that DNA is available, we would like the two to be compared to rule out any possibilities Anna might be a match.


    If the information/case details listed for Little Jane Doe are accurate, she may not be a match for the following reasons.

    1) This Jane is listed as having -brown hair.- But... I don't know what the elements of the ground materials in the salt river bed would have done to hair... I don't know the shade of brown the childs hair was, and based on information listed brown was determined based on a visual. I don' know if anything was done to determine if the elements may have leached into and affected the childs hair color.

    2) The jane doe's estimated ht is between 37" and 41" and Anna was listed as 44". Three inches wouldn't be too far off to consider with an adult, but I am unfamiliar how that difference might be with viewing the estimated ht for a child.

    While we all believe Anna is alive, we wouldn't be doing the right thing for Anna if we left any stone unturned, so I am hoping to hear back in a few weeks regarding the potential match. It should be relatively easy? now that both have DNA.

    I wasn't sure, and asked another WS member CarlK90245 who does a lot of potential matches in the unidentified section how long he thought it would take for comparison when DNA is first entered into Codis. He replied saying he thought a month or two. Because the DNA is so new for this Jane Doe, updated at Namus about January 7th, I thought it best to put through the request rather than to leave it to chance.

    No stone unturned. (and of course hoping she is not Anna.... )
    Last edited by Cubby; 02-19-2010 at 05:58 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    I have submitted the 'possible match' for comparison to the Maricopa County medical examiners office requesting Anna be compared to the "Little Jane Doe" found in 1979.

    Jane Does case info
    http://www.maricopa.gov/medex/uniden...aseNum=79-0583

    She is also listed at Namus and Doenetwork, and has been previously discussed here at WS within Annas forum as a possible match.

    Until earlier this year, only dentals were available for 'Little Jane Doe' and dentals are not available for Anna. Now that DNA is available, we would like the two to be compared to rule out any possibilities Anna might be a match.


    If the information/case details listed for Little Jane Doe are accurate, she may not be a match for the following reasons.

    1) This Jane is listed as having -brown hair.- But... I don't know what the elements of the ground materials in the salt river bed would have done to hair... I don't know the shade of brown the childs hair was, and based on information listed brown was determined based on a visual. I don' know if anything was done to determine if the elements may have leached into and affected the childs hair color.

    2) The jane doe's estimated ht is between 37" and 41" and Anna was listed as 44". Three inches wouldn't be too far off to consider with an adult, but I am unfamiliar how that difference might be with viewing the estimated ht for a child.

    While we all believe Anna is alive, we wouldn't be doing the right thing for Anna if we left any stone unturned, so I am hoping to hear back in a few weeks regarding the potential match. It should be relatively easy? now that both have DNA.

    I wasn't sure, and asked another WS member CarlK90245 who does a lot of potential matches in the unidentified section how long he thought it would take for comparison when DNA is first entered into Codis. He replied saying he thought a month or two. Because the DNA is so new for this Jane Doe, updated at Namus about January 7th, I thought it best to put through the request rather than to leave it to chance.

    No stone unturned. (and of course hoping she is not Anna.... )
    It certainly isn't CSI, is it? With a 12-year range of date of death, the "probable" date (based on the newspapers) is a year before Anna was born, and in 1978 she would have been 11 years old. The information is conflicted about the length of her hair as well, with one report saying it was 16 inches long and others saying seven inches. One of the "reconstructions" appears to have dreadlocks. I thought the Forum was aware that the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children ran Anna's familial DNA against that of all unidentifieds several months ago (right after Jaycee Dugard was found) and found no match. Jerry at the National Center phoned me to ask how I was doing and gave me this information. Even though Doogie phoned me to warn me that this was coming up, I found it pretty hard to take.

  6. #6
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    Annasmom, I am sorry this is so hard.

    I agree with the 'dreadlocks' picture and the wide range of estimated date this jane doe The only thing I can think of with that is that forensic science isn't what it was 30 years ago, nor is it what it was 5 years ago.

    The reason I submitted this, is because the DNA for the Jane doe is very new; January 7, 2010 when Namus was last updated. I did look and see that your last message from Jerry Nance was back in November.

    Maybe I could have done this a little differently and either Doogie, myself or you call Jerry Nance to ask if the last DNA codis run in November did include this newer DNA information available.

    I am open to suggestions on how to make this as least painful for yourself and your family.

    Last edited by Cubby; 02-20-2010 at 12:05 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Expanding on my previous post.

    Anna is compared to all UID's with dna in codis. If both the missing person and the UID have dna in codis that is an automatic rule out because they are always being updated and compared. The only UIDs Anna would not have been compared to are those without DNA in codis.

    If someone runs across a situation where a possible unidentified match without DNA in codis is found please submit it via PM for either Doogie or I to discuss the possibility before moving further.

    While the general rule of thumb at WS is family read or participate here at their risk, it has been mentioned by Annasmom in the past it is difficult for her to focus the direction of our sleuthing on finding a deceased Anna.

    Because of her eagerness and willingness to answer so many questions and partipate here as actively as she does, we are asking the possibility of any Jane Does be submitted to Doogie or I to review before further discussion. Not to 'exclude' anyone from anything, but rather to be sensitive to Anna's family. If the potential match is a strong possible we will then bring it back to the forum for discussion.

    Thank you for your consideration and sensitivity to Anna's family with this ongoing search.
    I have to say this. I had a hard time sleeping last nite because of the baby Jane Doe that was posted. I believe these posts should remain off forum until after confirmation has been made.

    We are privileged to have Anna's family members here on WS.

  8. #8
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    I can pass that suggestion along to admin Sherlock. We certainly don't want to cause Annasmom or family any more heartache than they have already endured. In the mean time, I am going to remove those posts from view.

  9. #9
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    Little Jane Doe

    I am sorry if I made any of you feel bad by my reaction to this case. You all know how grateful I am for all your efforts on my family's behalf. Usually I am pretty stoic about these poor unknown girls, but in this case I just lost it, imagining what situation would have led to this kind of end. Also, I have had three such notices for three different girls, one direct to my home e-mail (and I don't know how the sender got this), which is a little much. I have a message in for Jerry Nance at the National Center for Missing and Unidentified Children, since it is my impression that they automatically check DNA results with the national database as they come up. Cubby, sorry if I hurt your feelings. I'm usually tougher than this.

  10. #10
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    You didn't hurt my feelings Annasmom. I was really thinking about the very best way to approach this. Honestly, I had thought about contacting Jerry Nance first. Wasn't sure if it was best for me to contact him and ask direction, or to suggest you contact him, but I see you did.

    I can not leave the posts hidden from view, because it is not a violation of any WS rules to discuss possible matches that are Jane Does. I will however do all that I can to ensure that any discussion in that area NEVER gets out of hand in a 'lets throw this against the wall and see what sticks" kind of way.


  11. #11
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    PLEASE do not contact Annasmom directly at her home email, or anyplace outside of WS regarding any possible matches. Instructions for doing so regarding Jane Does are posted above and approved by Tricia. They are to be sent to myself or Dr. Doogie via pm FIRST.

    Websleuths NEVER condones making direct contact with any family member who is a victim of a crime, or missing persons case.

  12. #12
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    I am the culprit here. Cubby contacted me prior to posting and I made the decision that it was okay to post this. I was wrong. My apologies to all.
    Order the book "Searching For Anna" directly from [URL="http://www.lulu.com/conte

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SherlockJr View Post
    I have to say this. I had a hard time sleeping last nite because of the baby Jane Doe that was posted. I believe these posts should remain off forum until after confirmation has been made.

    We are privileged to have Anna's family members here on WS.

    Sherlock,
    I'm not sure what you mean by should remain off forum until after confirmation has been made. I did first confirm that this young unidentified female had not been previously compared to Anna directly with Maricopa County medical examiners office.

    Could you expand on what you mean by until after confirmation has been made?

    Thanks.

  14. #14
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    Letter from NCMEC re "Little Jane Doe"

    Gerald Nance of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children wrote the following this morning:
    "Michaele, I am familiar with the case they are talking about, I looked at her as a possible for other children, but I eliminated Anna after talking with the Coronerís Office, too many differences and since Anna is in CODIS as is the Little Jane Doe, and we have not been informed there is a possible match, it is 99.9% that this is NOT Anna."

  15. #15
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    I don't know if this Jane Doe was ever considered. If this is the case, I'm sorry to post it again.

    Unidentified White Female

    * Located on November 16, 1993 on Interstate 80 in Elko County, Nevada.
    * The victim had been shot twice in the chest.
    * Estimated to have been dead for about six days.

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 20 - 35 years old
    * Approximate Height and Weight: 5'8"; 144 lbs.
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Blonde hair; brown eyes.
    * Marks, Scars: She had a scar on her right calf area. She may have previously gone through childbirth.
    * Clothing: She was wearing pink nail polish. No clothing was found at the scene.
    A single pierce mark in each earlobe (no earrings present). A nodular 0.3 to 0.5 cm. nevus-like lesion on the preauricular scalp, above the tragus of the right ear - a depressed plaque-like mottled brown-gray ovoid 3 x 4 cm. scar on the back of the distal right lower leg - a similar colored 3 x 1 cm oval horizontal scar below this and also on the back of the right lower leg.
    * Dentals: Her teeth were in excellent condition but was in the process of having a root canal done on the lower right molar (tooth 31). Has all 32 teeth, impacted wisdom teeth.
    * DNA: Available in FBI NMPDD

    Case History
    The victim was found off the northbound side of Interstate 80, near the Utah border. The site where the body was found lies on the edge of a vast and desolate desert bisected by one of the nation's busiest highways.
    An autopsy found evidence of alcohol and marijuana in the woman's system.
    The victim was found completely nude, lying on her back, her arms spread out to her side in the shape of a cross, legs slightly parted. Investigators believe her killer may have purposefully posed the body. Detectives found drag marks on the ground from the victim's heels. She had been shot twice in the chest with a small-caliber weapon. One of the bullets pierced her heart. She had also been beaten.
    Police believe the victim was killed at another location and later dumped at the I-80 turnoff. Tire tracks found at the site point to a mid-size to large vehicle, possibly a pickup or van.

    Investigators
    If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
    Elko County Sheriff Department
    702-738-3421 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting**************702-738-3421******end_of_the_skype_highlighting

    Coroner Case Number:
    1235-93

    NCIC Number:
    N/A
    Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

    Source Information:
    Washoe County Coroner's Office
    Missing Children...HELP Center
    NamUs

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/125ufnv.html

    The reconstruction looks very much like Anna's age progression photo. Eye and hair color match, too. There is an online article about this UID case and there it says that the victim was likely 27 when she died (Anna would have been 26 in 1993) and lived in the southwest for the majority of her life. (http://www.elkodaily.com/articles/20...6780662468.txt)

    Here is a thread about this Jane Doe: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=nevada+1993
    Another member brought up the idea that the UID could be Anna. I thought it would be helpful to post it here.

    The UID's doenetwork page states that her DNA is available in FBI NMPDD. Does that mean that it is entered in CODIS, too?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "There Is a Light That Never Goes Out." (The Smiths)

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