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View Poll Results: Did EJ Use a Broker or Middle Man?

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I think she used a broker, middle man, agency, service, etc.

    36 63.16%
  • No, I think she gave or sold Gabe direct to the couple who was to keep him

    8 14.04%
  • Neither of the above - I don't think she gave away or sold Gabe

    13 22.81%

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  1. #1

    Did EJ Use a Broker/Middle Man?

    This poll is to get a gauge on which way people are thinking is more likely that Elizabeth would have given away or sold Gabe, by using a broker or 'middle man', or by giving/selling direct to the couple that was to keep him.

    Included in broker/middle man would be an agency or service, or an individual.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    This poll is to get a gauge on which way people are thinking is more likely that Elizabeth would have given away or sold Gabe, by using a broker or 'middle man', or by giving/selling direct to the couple that was to keep him.

    Included in broker/middle man would be an agency or service, or an individual.
    He could also be an agent for a group or an underground of some sort. and for what it's worth, I think TS knows who it is or at least how to contact the middle man.

  3. #3
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    FWIW, I think TS knows who/which agency put EJ in touch with the broker...great poll idea btw.
    I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.
    ― Franklin D. Roosevelt


    Gabriel Johnson and Sylar Newton. Come home safely Gabriel Johnson! RIP Sweet Sylar.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by kissdegirl View Post
    FWIW, I think TS knows who/which agency put EJ in touch with the broker...great poll idea btw.
    Thanks, kiss. I just can't believe her story that a couple came up to her in the park, but I wasn't sure how others were thinking, so thought I'd do a poll on it.

    Anybody and everybody is welcome to create a poll. Just create a new thread, type up your post explaining what your poll is about, then scroll down to the bottom and check the Poll checkbox. Also put the number of answers you want in your poll.

    Click submit, and you'll be taken to a new screen where you put in your poll question and all your answers. 30 days is good to use for the time limit to be sure you allow time for a good number of people to respond.

    If you mess up, don't worry! It took me several times to get it when I first tried it. You can always delete and create a new one if you don't like how it comes out. PM me any time if you need any help!

    Thanks,
    BeanE
    Last edited by BeanE; 02-22-2010 at 07:48 PM.

  5. #5
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    Well, I voted no because I think she went with "plan B". But, as I think about it, I think there was a middle man. My whole feeling on this is that TS got her familiar with the "underground". She introduced EJ to the correct people. IMO, EJ ended up going off on her own, but somehow/someway, there was another person involved in connecting EJ with the "adoptive" parents.
    100 years from now, it won't matter what kind of car you drove or how big your house was. What will matter is that you were important in the eyes of a child.


  6. #6
    kileyizzle's Avatar
    kileyizzle is offline ♥ we have but two lives. The life we learn with, & the life after that ♥
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    I personally feel like it was more than one middle man;

    I do believe she met the couple in the park; but they weren't random.

    I believe that they were notified by TS about how they wanted to adopt Gabriel, maybe to buy some time; They decided to sell Gabriel to another couple, with insurance payments all that. But when Logan contacted and attempted to go about through things legally it all fell apart. Resulting in a panic attempt to cover things up.

    I strongly belive there is a religious connectiong somehow; I don't think it's a coincidence that the church TPS attends has a program for single mothers, encourages adoptions and also has a program that reinstates traffiking victims back into society <Links into the undergroung > . It just seems like an organization with the money and the means.

    IMHO

  7. #7
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    JMO....I believe EJ has given him to someone she knows or TS knows. The "Adoptive Parent and Papers" thing I think is just a cloud of smoke and a wild goose chase....at least, I hope I'm right!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowSubmarine View Post
    Well, I voted no because I think she went with "plan B". But, as I think about it, I think there was a middle man. My whole feeling on this is that TS got her familiar with the "underground". She introduced EJ to the correct people. IMO, EJ ended up going off on her own, but somehow/someway, there was another person involved in connecting EJ with the "adoptive" parents.
    I think there is a middle man as well but I don't think TS knows who it is. I think one of TS's recommended "underground" connections set EJ up with the middle man. I agree, Tammi's plan failed and EJ went on to plan B. I still can't shake Janet's name when thinking of who could of recommended the middle man to EJ. Her history and knowledge supports it. I know they searched her house already but all it would take is a phone call and then she's out of it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXHOPE View Post
    I think there is a middle man as well but I don't think TS knows who it is. I think one of TS's recommended "underground" connections set EJ up with the middle man. I agree, Tammi's plan failed and EJ went on to plan B. I still can't shake Janet's name when thinking of who could of recommended the middle man to EJ. Her history and knowledge supports it. I know they searched her house already but all it would take is a phone call and then she's out of it.
    BBM --

    Yes, exactly.

    It just seems fishy to me that TS put EJ in contact with JM and suddenly EJ goes out on her own and *poof* Gabe is gone. Don't get me wrong, I think TS definitely has some involvement, but these people are "professionals". There is a brightly dotted line flowing between TS, JM and the "adoptive" parents.
    Last edited by YellowSubmarine; 02-22-2010 at 10:45 PM.
    100 years from now, it won't matter what kind of car you drove or how big your house was. What will matter is that you were important in the eyes of a child.


  10. #10
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    I think TS sent EJ to SA. IMO, the plan was to meet this middle man, he would take care of the paperwork, EJ would sign the paper to relinquish her parental rights, claiming unknown father.

    Logan refused to be an unknown father and things got sticky, so TS called it off, said to come back.

    EJ had the ball rolling and wasn't gonna stop, she told the middle man to find a new couple. He had plenty waiting, EJ said, where there is a will there is a way.

    So yes, I believe there was a middle man.


  11. #11
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    Her grandfather said she could go on Craigslist and find an adoptive family in 5 minutes. I think that she found a couple on her own (I am sure it wouldn't be hard to throw a rock and hit 5 people who would take a beautiful baby). I really think if TPS had sent her to meet a broker in San Antonio it would have come out in the computer or phone record search.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litlred View Post
    I believe it is in "things that make you go hmmmm"

    I reported this to the lost group. I'm assume they forward it to the LE? I will have to check my e-mails but this may have been before JJ started working on the the case. I should probably send it to him as well and the family.
    Hi! There is some confusion on where to send what...someone asked on the FB group for Gabriel and LM's aunt Kelli said the following:

    The new PI: bob@diamondbackinvestigators.com
    FBI: hector.morales@ic.fbi.gov
    JJ: theinvestigators@hotmail.com

    Great find! I hope you send it to all these guys.

  13. #13
    This is off-topic for this thread, however, it's critical for Gabe's well-being.

    For any missing child, tips should always be sent to the official LE phone number or email address that LE specifies. That is the fastest and surest way to get help to the child in danger, and is what is in the child's best interests.

    San Antonio police department is the LE handling Gabe's case. They've arranged a tipline and email address with NCMEC. NCMEC sends the tips to SAPD. When I recently called in a small, quick tip to NCMEC, they transferred me over directly to SAPD.

    1-800-THE-LOST is the phone number
    hotline@ncmec.org is the email address


    Case Number: NCMC1137894, Gabriel Scott Johnson, endangered missing

    A few days ago, I told Sandy that I continue to get messages about tip confusion. I told Sandy that I tell people the above. She replied that is what she wants me to continue to tell people here at WS.

    Sandy said that the family would appreciate if tips are also sent to the family. She said to keep posting the oursweetgabriel@yahoo.com email address for family tips here at WS, however, I feel obligated to let you know that she also said she is unsure how well that email address is monitored any more. She said she would let me know as soon as the family decides collectively what family tip email address they want to use.

    So, in the meantime, please be sure to send your tips to LE, and I would say for sending them also to additional people and organizations, that is going to have to be your personal choice which email addresses to use.

    I hope the family gets one, central, easy-to-remember email address set up soon, where all tips for family and the multiple P.I.s working on Gabe's case can be sent.

    For further discussion of tips, please see this thread:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94603"]Sleuthers & Tips Needed! - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    Thanks!
    BeanE

  14. #14
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    I feel confident that a middle man (woman) was involved and think it's likely there was a team effort engaged in "getting the job done." My instincts tell me that TS was the primary and did the legwork on EJ's end, JM dit the legwork on the adoption group end and provided TS the contacts for EJ to use. Even if I thought that EJ could mastermind an operation that is seemingly this complex, I see no way for an out-of work, destitute young woman who has to sell personal belongings and borrow cars to have funded it (travel, hotels, GPSs, extra cellphones. bustickets, gas, food babysitters, new forged identity documentation, the list just goes on and on). Plus, the 5-6 day delay in SA before executing the plan seems like strong support for the idea that there was a period of time spent ironing out all the details and getting all the parties on the same page with the particulars.--Also explains a possible reason for EJs concern about being confronted at her hotel door and asking the babysitter not to let anyone near G.

    The support cast she was seen with, from the HG (whether broker, adoption agency strong arm, transportation, personal protection, couple's representative or translator) and the couple lend weight to the idea that this was an arranged hand-off. I think EJ was desparate enough that she would have acted hastily and deviated from the plan much sooner if somone wasn't providing her step by step directions all along the way. Personally, I think it wouldn't take more than a 5 minute scratch into the computers of TS or JM to explain most of the story. Unfortunately, if I am correct, I believe that any computers they might have used for handling illegal trades are locked away somewhere far from LE eyes (probably so is EJs) and any identifying user information is most likely untraceable even if the computers are located. All of them, IMO are smart enough to know how to avoid detection along the obvious routes.

    At the end of her rope (EJ) , someone cooler and calmer and more calculating had to have been in charge of making the arrangements!!
    Last edited by chell; 02-23-2010 at 09:46 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chell View Post
    I feel confident that a middle man (woman) was involved and think it's likely there was a team effort engaged in "getting the job done." My instincts tell me that TS was the primary and did the legwork on EJ's end, JM dit the legwork on the adoption group end and provided TS the contacts for EJ to use. Even if I thought that EJ could mastermind an operation that is seemingly this complex, I see no way for an out-of work, destitute young woman who has to sell personal belongings and borrow cars to have funded it (travel, hotels, GPSs, extra cellphones. bustickets, gas, food babysitters, new forged identity documentation, the list just goes on and on). Plus, the 5-6 day delay in SA before executing the plan seems like strong support for the idea that there was a period of time spent ironing out all the details and getting all the parties on the same page with the particulars.--Also explains a possible reason for EJs concern about being confronted at her hotel door and asking the babysitter not to let anyone near G.

    The support cast she was seen with, from the HG (whether broker, adoption agency strong arm, transportation, personal protection, couple's representative or translator) and the couple lend weight to the idea that this was an arranged hand-off. I think EJ was desparate enough that she would have acted hastily and deviated from the plan much sooner if somone wasn't providing her step by step directions all along the way. Personally, I think it wouldn't take more than a 5 minute scratch into the computers of TS or JM to explain most of the story. Unfortunately, if I am correct, I believe that any computers they might have used for handling illegal trades are locked away somewhere far from LE eyes (probably so is EJs) and any identifying user information is most likely untraceable even if the computers are located. All of them, IMO are smart enough to know how to avoid detection along the obvious routes.

    At the end of her rope (EJ) , someone cooler and calmer and more calculating had to have been in charge of making the arrangements!!

    I agree with all of the above, but I would like to add that Tammi's smugness and smirks, and her intentionally using the media to put false information (according to LE) out there to impede the investigation, is strong circumstancial evidence that she was involved in the planning of Gabriel's adoption or hiding him for the Smiths. It is also possible that hiding him was her intention but she may have since told whoever to place him with someone else permanently, because things have not gone as she planned in her own life!

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