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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneLostGrl View Post
    I agree with you on #1.

    On #2 I'm gonna say a 3 or a 4 because he was an attention getter even in childhood (from the things we have read about him). His relationships were never healthy, he was sullen, hostile, shallow and full of transparent emotional displays. Such as cutting himself then posting the pictures on-line.. becoming a pirate, a woman, a writer (I'm sure I'm missing something here, it's been awhile since I read through all the roles he played).. it's pretty clear he was fishing for reactions from everyone his whole life.

    As far as how he acted with like-minded peers, I don't think there is such thing.. at least I pray there isn't! LOL

    Let me know if I'm doing this the right way, OK? Thanks!
    When I read Item #2, I thought I'd assign a 4.

    Now that I read OLG's answer and then knot4u2no's, I can see there are many elements to one question. Knot focused on the anxiety level and I focused more on the mention of using emotional displays to motivate others. According to another posters account (who posted with him on another forum), he was very demanding of his peers and stomped his feet loudly in protest when he didn't like the response he got.

    One of his ex's pointed out that his whole life revolved around shocking his family (not necessarily peers) in order to get their attention.

    These questions are loaded in that they can be broken down into parts - ie, peers/silly and loud, or when alone/anxious, or as ages, more sullen and how he motivates others, etc. Very complicated question in and of itself. Too layered to be analyzed by the casual observer imo.

    What I'm trying to express is that each part of the question could possibly merit a different number, no? Seems as if there are three different questions within one item number to consider at the same time.


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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devery Mills View Post
    I know I bailed out earlier due to the sensitive involvement of the situation but I believe I am now stronger and able to deal a bit better. I would like to try to answer these questions based on my personal experiences and relationship with RM/BL. May I?
    I think your insight would be most valuable.
    Glad to hear you're feeling stronger.


  4. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    I think your insight would be most valuable.
    Glad to hear you're feeling stronger.
    Thanks for being so kind.
    Teach God's love but use words only when necessary.


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  6. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuthster View Post
    I read his/her website. It was very disturbing to say in the least. I don't know however if I could truely make informative speculation on all of the above questions. Afterall, we can only go by what he has written. Although it was very informative in reguards to a deep insite into a very disturbed individual, it was written by an author of fictional stories, tales of a facade. Stories of an overactive imagination. I don't know if a BRACE would be acurate without speaking to those who truely knew the real person behind the facade.

    I can tell you that it does not make sense, his writings are a contrast to each other. You have a cross dresser/transvestite who dresses like a woman because he/she never felt comfortable as one of the guys and gets off on woman being brutalized/raped yet as a female wants to be the domanent one who brutalizes women during sex but denies being sexually drawn to women. A man who claims to have been drawn to S&M against women since his childhood, yet he claims to have loved a woman deeply and makes no mention of anger towards her because she was a woman.It makes no sense.

    I can say that my conclusion is that he/she has concocted some of the events as he did as a writer and his/her main problem IMO has to do with being in the Marines and feeling that they "raped him" and also his wife leaving him he feels rejected. IMO of course.
    A great deal of what he wrote on his site was lies/fantasies. He was afraid of failure on a grand scale and worked very hard to prove himself not so. He was grandiose in many areas. When he saw that he was unable to have a meaningful relationship of ANY kind he created his success in his own mind and came to believe it to be reality.

    He was a failure in the Marines because he couldn't complete boot camp. He could not handle the pressure of the basic training and ended up with a dishonorable discharge. For exactly what, I am not sure but I saw the papers with my own eyes. He was probably raped in his mind but I seriously doubt in reality.
    Teach God's love but use words only when necessary.


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  8. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Knot4u2no View Post
    Since this thread is for postings and discussion related to the first 25 items, I'll start things off by posting my tentative rating and rationale for item 1. Feel free to post any number of ratings in a post, both with and without rationales, and feel free to comment on any of the first 25 items.

    Item 1: 3

    Rationale: RM’s (Renata Monet) life and lifestyle are full of inconsistencies and contradictions (e.g., although claiming to be a female at heart, s/he thinks, fantasizes, and sexually acts-out as a male). Some of the self-reports of "life experiences" are as fantastic as his/her obviously fictional short stories (e.g., the claim of being violently raped while in the military is likely pure fiction). RM is not a stupid person, but there is poor judgment and a quality similar to pseudologia fantastica (false/fantastic account of exploits/experiences).

    My general thinking about this item was to eliminate 0 and 4 as possible ratings, then I narrowed it down to a debate between a 2 or a 3. I settled on a 3 because I found him/her to be so unbelievable on so many levels. I could be persuaded to go with a 2, but not likely with a 0,1, or 4. Of course, I might change my mind.

    Russell
    If one's life is lived as a complete facade and their lies are reality to them then to them they are living truths. So what would be a lie to us would in fact be truth for them whereby there would be no need to pretend or hide their beliefs. I chose 1:1 based on that information. RM/BL could lie with perfection because to him it was real.
    Teach God's love but use words only when necessary.


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  10. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    When I read Item #2, I thought I'd assign a 4.

    Now that I read OLG's answer and then knot4u2no's, I can see there are many elements to one question. Knot focused on the anxiety level and I focused more on the mention of using emotional displays to motivate others. According to another posters account (who posted with him on another forum), he was very demanding of his peers and stomped his feet loudly in protest when he didn't like the response he got.

    One of his ex's pointed out that his whole life revolved around shocking his family (not necessarily peers) in order to get their attention.

    These questions are loaded in that they can be broken down into parts - ie, peers/silly and loud, or when alone/anxious, or as ages, more sullen and how he motivates others, etc. Very complicated question in and of itself. Too layered to be analyzed by the casual observer imo.

    What I'm trying to express is that each part of the question could possibly merit a different number, no? Seems as if there are three different questions within one item number to consider at the same time.
    I understand that the rating process can be very frustrating, but it does get easier as you become more familiar with the rating criteria. Keep in mind that you are rating the entire item, not the parts of the item.

    Excerpt from the above instructions:

    READ EACH ITEM CAREFULLY, CONSIDERING THE FULL CONTENT OF THE ITEM
    NOTE: Pay very close attention to the wording (particularly: if, may, and, both, etc.).

    General rating guidelines:
    If an item is 100% true, it is a 4.
    If there are some parts that are not true but overall the item is at least 75% true, it is a 3.
    If half is 100% true but half is not true at all or only partially true, it is at least a 2.
    If one or more parts is true, it is at least a 1.
    If almost all of the item is false most of the time, it is a 0.
    Russell
    Even chaos is well patterned.


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  12. #22
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    Just a couple of interesting quotes related to item number one:

    Quote: "Any fool can tell the truth, but it requires a man of some sense to know how to lie well." -- Samuel Butler

    Quote: “You don’t have to have a good memory if you tell the truth.” -- Judge Judy

    Russell
    Even chaos is well patterned.


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  14. #23
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    Items 3 and 16 = 4.
    Last edited by Woe.be.gone; 05-05-2010 at 04:24 PM. Reason: add


  15. #24
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    I'll write the criteria down - now I see where it says 'if a part is true' - sorry. Still hard for me to judge having never met the person.


  16. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devery Mills View Post
    If one's life is lived as a complete facade and their lies are reality to them then to them they are living truths. So what would be a lie to us would in fact be truth for them whereby there would be no need to pretend or hide their beliefs. I chose 1:1 based on that information. RM/BL could lie with perfection because to him it was real.
    Are you saying that RM/BL could care less what anybody else thought, so no reason to lie? In other words, he was not concerned about lying or covering up what someone else viewed as a lie? You either put up with him/her, or you didn't? (but then maybe he felt abandoned by people?)
    Last edited by Woe.be.gone; 05-05-2010 at 04:44 PM.


  17. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    Are you saying that RM/BL could care less what anybody else thought, so no reason to lie? In other words, he was not concerned about lying or covering up what someone else viewed as a lie? You either put up with him/her, or you didn't? (but then maybe he felt abandoned by people?)
    That is correct but not only that, his reality was whatever he created for himself and he believed what he created.
    Teach God's love but use words only when necessary.


  18. #27
    2. When with like-minded peers, s/he engages in superficial, loud, and distracting silliness. Alone in public, s/he is self-consciously anxious. One-to-one s/he may display inappropriate or anxious laughter to mask underlying anxiety. With age, becomes increasingly more sullen, hostile, and isolated, with shallow and transparent emotional displays to motivate others.


    This is difficult because there was never a "like-minded peer." I've never met anyone like him. Before or after. However, I will speak of similarities and use them as my guide.

    When we were engaged with people who had somewhat similar thoughts and ideas he would be a "leader." He would openly and honestly share his thoughts and ideas. He was very proud of himself in this area.

    He was never anxious while alone. He was secure in himself not caring what others thought. He would do embarrassing things while in public like impersonate Elvis in song and dance. I think it was more for the shock factor than anything.


    As far as later years I can only go on what my son has told me which was that he became more and more depressed and withdrawn as years passed. Also, I think the photo of him sitting on the bed in a pink robe with his head in the pillow speaks volumes as part of this along with some of his writings where he speaks of being alone and isolated.

    I think I will give 2:1
    Teach God's love but use words only when necessary.


  19. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    Are you saying that RM/BL could care less what anybody else thought, so no reason to lie? In other words, he was not concerned about lying or covering up what someone else viewed as a lie? You either put up with him/her, or you didn't? (but then maybe he felt abandoned by people?)
    He was abandoned by nearly everyone except his grandmother who he used frequently but I do believe genuinely loved her.

    The issue was that his thought process was so bizarre that he never had any friends. If he did for a short time, they left very quickly when they got to know him. When I say, NO friends...I mean NONE! He caused his own abandonment due to his behavior and his wild ideas. Thing is...he could not see his issues. People would try to tell him and he would get angry and sometimes very violent acting. He could never hold a job more than a couple months at a time and rarely worked. He was always on government assistance of some sort because he believed "they owed it to him."
    Teach God's love but use words only when necessary.


  20. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    Items 3 and 16 = 4.
    I agree .... kind-of jumps out at you.

    Russell
    Even chaos is well patterned.


  21. #30
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    Just read both of the threads on this. What a fascinating exercise! I wish it had garnered more attention and participation. I don't know the story behind the person being discussed. I will have to look it up. This profiling is very interesting. I am still too involved in the database to have the time to spend on it, but hopefully will be able to delve a little deeper at a later date.

    What would be the practical uses of such a profiling system? How could this information be translated into a tool for use on WS cases? Can this be used to help identify an unknown perp? If it would serve a purpose for our cases here, I would certainly be interested in developing the use of the system and becoming adept at it myself. I would have to wait until I got the database to the level it needs to be at. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


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