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  1. #1
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    Loved to Death

    Before we get started, let me be clear: this is a hypothetical, purely for the sake of argument.

    Here we go. I'm merely speculating, but I think PR figured that JB would make her famous as a beauty queen. With JB dead, that was no longer an option. But make a good crime scene and do your best acting job and you will become a magnet for sympathy. She becomes the ultimate victim. Michael Kane did an interview in 2002 where he said that the staging of the crime was so overdone, it would have to have been done by someone with a proclivity for showmanship. He used these words: "It was a very theatrical production and Patsy is a very theatrical person." He described her as a narcissist who "loves being known as the mother of a murdered beauty queen." It's an old story. History is full of people who, once they've outlived their usefulness, have become worth more to a cause dead than alive. Che Guevara is a good example. As is John F. Kennedy. Or the one that JB seemed destined to accompany: Marilyn Monroe. Let me lay this illustration on you: PR often likened her daughter to Marilyn Monroe, even printing it on JonBenet's name badge at one pageant. Who better to associate your beauty queen daughter with than the most famous blonde of all time? But, what most people overlook is this: one of the big reasons why Marilyn's legend is so strong is because she died tragically. Marilyn died young and at the peak of her fame, her beauty undiminished. She was not allowed to grow old and obscure. Instead, the gods lifted her up to them in full loveliness.

    Well, what happened to Marilyn happened to JonBenet, and I can't help but wonder if for the same reason. I don't necessarily mean that JonBenet's death was premeditated (although, there may be those who do). I'm just saying that, if it did start out as an unintentional killing, it might explain to all those naysayers why 911 wasn't called and why all of the staging was done: a child beauty queen, so destined for greatness killed in a common, garden-variety, run-of-the-mill, humdrum domestic incident? That would NEVER do! She was so spectacular in life. She HAD to be spectacular in death. Nothing but the best (or worst, depending on how you see it) for JonBenet. And she IS spectacular in death! Her death made her more well-known to more people than all of her performances put together. Not to mention that it's almost 15 years later and people STILL remember her! Would a simple domestic death merit such attention? No. But a child beauty queen killed in her own home under the noses of her loved ones on what is supposed to be the happiest day of the year...how cool is that!

    And it had the perfect capper: that massive public funeral, where everyone could pledge their condolences and see the perfect little princess, beautiful forever, displayed in a coffin that served the same purpose as a jewel box. PR acted like a mother would at her daughter's wedding day, because it WAS JB's wedding day. As a former poster titled "voynich" put it, a wedding day with Death. Or if you prefer, her wedding day with God.

    And all of it motivated by love. I've considered the idea that PR was saving JB from something, something that made it necessary to preserve her in memory as perfect, but this is heart-wrenching enough as it is.

    Okay. Let the chips fall where they may.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  2. #2
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    That's a fascinating argument, Dave, and one that I believe is very close to what I believe played out.

  3. #3
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    In this scenario,how muchdoes JR know?
    Because it would mean PR didn't give a damn about him,I mean,he already lost one daughter......how cruel would it be to take away another one.Of course,this scenario implies that PR wasn't exacly........sane....so I guess other people's feelings didn't matter much?
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    In this scenario, how much does JR know?
    A fair deal, in my estimation.

    Because it would mean PR didn't give a damn about him, I mean, he already lost one daughter......how cruel would it be to take away another one. Of course, this scenario implies that PR wasn't exacly........sane....so I guess other people's feelings didn't matter much?
    That about sums it up. I've often wondered if she didn't have a "break" with reality, at least a temporary one.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  5. #5
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    I think Patsy's dreams of Beauty Queen glory and word-wide fame for herself, dashed when she went on to LOSE the Miss American Pageant, then faded as she became a pretty, smart but decidedly unremarkable mother of two. No one outside of Atlanta ever heard of her or paid her much attention. Ditto Boulder, UNTIL.....she transferred her dreams of glory to her little girl. Patsy got her dream of world wide fame with her daughter's death. So did her daughter. Patsy herself said she felt good about the fact that JB would never grow up to bear the pain of losing a child. She also meant (though unsaid) that JB would never know the pain of losing- period.
    To be honest, I don't think the world would have taken note of JB either unless this happened. If she did go on to become Miss America one day, her background on the Kiddie Pageant circuit would have come out, but not before that. As far as past Miss Americas, I can't think of any who were on the "glitz" pageant circuit. I am sure many won teen pageants and of course State pageants. They likely had some sort of coaching. But most contestants were pretty and talented girls who looked at the crown as scholarship money or a path to a rewarding career (outside of the pageant world) and yes, even a wealthy husband. I have been watching Miss America all my life. My grandfather worked the lights at the Convention Hall in Atlantic City during the 50s. We used to go there every August, staying in one of the many (now gone) guest houses. They were all over Atlantic City back then- some big hotels, but mostly quaint Victorian- era guest homes with huge wraparound porches, the oversized wicker furniture smelling musty but pleasant at the same time, the smell of the seashore and vacation, the Diving Horse. Salt water taffy.
    I cannot recall, over all these years, more than a handful of names of past Miss Americas.
    JB was a beautiful little girl of some talent. Was she Shirley Temple? No. And I doubt she would have been.
    Her death gave her what her mother always wanted - for herself and her daughter.
    Last edited by DeeDee249; 03-01-2010 at 12:11 AM.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    I think Patsy's dreams of Beauty Queen glory and word-wide fame for herself, dashed when she went on to LOSE the Miss American Pageant, then faded as she became a pretty, smart but decidedly unremarkable mother of two. No one outside of Atlanta ever heard of her or paid her much attention. Ditto Boulder, UNTIL.....she transferred her dreams of glory to her little girl. Patsy got her dream of world wide fame with her daughter's death. So did her daughter. Patsy herself said she felt good about the fact that JB would never grow up to bear the pain of losing a child. She also meant (though unsaid) that JB would never know the pain of losing- period.
    To be honest, I don't think the world would have taken note of JB either unless this happened. If she did go on to become Miss America one day, her background on the Kiddie Pageant circuit would have come out, but not before that. As far as past Miss Americas, I can't think of any who were on the "glitz" pageant circuit. I am sure many won teen pageants and of course State pageants. They likely had some sort of coaching. But most contestants were pretty and talented girls who looked at the crown as scholarship money or a path to a rewarding career (outside of the pageant world) and yes, even a wealthy husband. I have been watching Miss America all my life. My grandfather worked the lights at the Convention Hall in Atlantic City during the 50s. We used to go there every August, staying in one of the many (now gone) guest houses. They were all over Atlantic City back then- some big hotels, but mostly quaint Victorian- era guest homes with huge wraparound porches, the oversized wicker furniture smelling musty but pleasant at the same time, the smell of the seashore and vacation, the Diving Horse. Salt water taffy.
    I cannot recall, over all these years, more than a handful of names of past Miss Americas.
    JB was a beautiful little girl of some talent. Was she Shirley Temple? No. And I doubt she would have been.
    Her death gave her what her mother always wanted - for herself and her daughter.
    Wonderful, DeeDee. You illustrated my point PERFECTLY. And the fact that you could is the saddest part of all..
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  7. #7
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    Thought maybe this fits on this thread:

    http://www.cbn.com/700club/scottross...jonbenet1.aspx

    PATSY RAMSEY: That is something we don’t know. And I think because of the magnitude of this we have to believe as Christians that God is using this.

    JOHN RAMSEY: See what we believe, this is our hope, that for some reason JonBenet’s name is known around the world.

    SCOTT: It’s a unique name.

    JOHN: Well, but there are thousands of children murdered in this country every year. But you can’t name one of them.

    SCOTT: No.

    JOHN: You can’t. So for some reason God is going to make this work for good. Our job, Patsy and I, is to stay tuned and be sure we are listening because there is something significant that is going to happen out of this -- that is our belief.



    Brrrrrrrrrrrr......CREEPY!!!
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

  8. #8
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    Interesting thoughts they had. Trying to soothe their guilty consciences, I guess.

    I mean, as far as something like the murder of little Adam Walsh...THERE is a case where something good came out of a great tragedy. The TV show hosted by his father has helped to bring more than a few perps to justice. Ditto Megan Kanka. We now have Megan's Law. But THIS case? What good has come out of JB's name being world-known? It may have pleased her mother to have her daughter (even a dead daughter) so well-known, but it has hardly resulted in any benefit to the world, the country, the state of Colorado or the city of Boulder. Or even to anyone she knew.
    And we STILL have those awful kiddie glitz pageants.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  9. #9
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    [quote=DeeDee249;4875369] What good has come out of JB's name being world-known? quote]

    Hi DeeDee.

    The only glimmer of good I can see, is that the PBD now carry cards detailing procedure in the case of a missing child.

    It's way little to late, but atleast the hope that all cases following JBR's tragic death have followed a protocol that limits human error (BPD error)and in theory and practice protects the rights of the family as well.

  10. #10
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    Well I always thought with putting Marilyn Monroe on JonBenet's name tag this who PR was aimimg for her to be like...And with the marks on the neck now how would this be spectacular and I can't see how PR would think this also for JonBenet memory to be tarnish with a paintbrush being inserted inside her....
    Knowledge of time is precious.Wisdom of truth is more precious than time..Opinions I write are mine..


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    In this scenario,how muchdoes JR know?
    Because it would mean PR didn't give a damn about him,I mean,he already lost one daughter......how cruel would it be to take away another one.Of course,this scenario implies that PR wasn't exacly........sane....so I guess other people's feelings didn't matter much?
    From my view, to people like PR, no one matters, it is all about her and how everything makes her look, or relates to her. What a selfish and meaningless way of life.
    "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." Flannery O'Connor

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyn View Post
    And with the marks on the neck now how would this be spectacular
    How? Think about the kind of killer it suggests: the kind that TERRIFIES middle Americans.

    In my opinion, there were practical reasons as well:

    1) Strangulation is clean. It doesn't make a bloody mess.

    2) The neck wounds could be easily hidden at the funeral (anybody ELSE think that scarf was important?). Just as long as her face wasn't distorted. But even then, as I explained to voynich, it didn't matter all that much if it was an open-casket funeral as long as there WAS a funeral (which is my explanation for why her body was not dumped as well).

    and I can't see how PR would think this also for JonBenet memory to be tarnish with a paintbrush being inserted inside her....
    I'm of the mind that they didn't have much choice. SOMETHING had to explain her injuries "down there."
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  13. #13
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    I agree with these ideas. Up until recently, I felt a lot of compassion for Patsy Ramsey. I thought she murdered JonBenet, but I thought a combination of her cancer & stress made her go into a rage. I thought that not having her daughter was probably hell on earth. But as I got older, my feelings toward her changed. When I read their Christmas message, it dawned on me that they were trying to minimize JonBenet's death. Nevermind that innocent parents wouldn't have written that garbage, grieving parents wouldn't have written it either-so I came to the conclusion that they were not grieving parents. Patsy was nothing more than the ultimate stage mother. I really believe that she could not seperate herself from her daughter. JonBenet's attention, applause, & accolades were for her. When JonBenet won, Patsy won. When JonBenet lost, Patsy lost. Patsy had cancer & knew it was going to kill her, so in her mind, it was killing JonBenet-or should have been. I really think she thought like that & would not have wanted JonBenet to go on living, if she couldn't-because she was jealous. She wouldn't want young, pretty, show-business bound, JonBenet to reap the benefits of HER hard work, without her. (AND still be with her daddy). Does that make sense? I don't think the murder was premeditated, but I do believe that she had given it some previous thought, & knew that she could deal with it. & no matter how they down-played their participation, their beauty pagent involvement was NOT normal. That was one sick & twisted family.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodie20 View Post
    I agree with these ideas. Up until recently, I felt a lot of compassion for Patsy Ramsey. I thought she murdered JonBenet, but I thought a combination of her cancer & stress made her go into a rage. I thought that not having her daughter was probably hell on earth.
    I know EXACTLY what you mean.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  15. #15
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    Hi Dodie.

    I don't think the murder was premeditated, but I do believe that she had given it some previous thought, & knew that she could deal with it. -D

    That's kinda what I've always wondered, when that terrible abusive picture of PR is painted, or piecemealed? why exclude the consideration that there was premeditation, that the deadly blow was premeditated? .

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