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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomoresorrow View Post
    ~ Respectfully snipped ~



    I hope that you don't take offense Logical but I don't understand the connection between sex offenders and people with a mental illness? Perhaps I missed a piece of info somewhere and, if that's the case, could you please point me in the right direction - TIA.
    It was California's Department of Mental Health that just released 17,000 sex offenders.

    I'm guessing that these 17,000 sex offenders have mental health issues.

    ~That doesn't imply that all people (or even most people) that have mental health issues are sex offenders, but I think it is safe to assume that most (if not all) sex offenders do have mental health problems.
    Last edited by smart blonde; 03-07-2010 at 10:08 PM.
    .... ....... My posts are my opinion, only.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogicalMinds View Post
    Dept of MENTAL HEALTH is the topic of this thread ....which I believe is probably understaffed in most states

    the situation described here was that of Psychiatrists who were supposed to interview these offenders before they are released and are not doing their job, "lack of funds"....

    which leads to the fact that these same "Dept of Mental health" are also not providing services to people who need it....mentally ill people are not monitored...families with a mentally ill person, "off their meds" have few resources..what can they do?? and one only needs to look at these many cases to see how many mentally ill people not only commit crimes but are victims of crimes
    Got it! Thank you for explaining that to me Logical.

    I've got alot of questions running through my mind right now...
    Although I knew about SO civil commitments, somehow I missed a HUGE piece of this process! I did not realize, until now, that a state's mental health department (DMH) were the managers/decision-makers in the process. It was my understanding that the decision was (1) a recommendation made by a correctional facility's staff psychiatrist/psychologist, then (2) it went before a judge who would make the final decision based on the correctional facility's psychiatrist/psychologist recommendation, in addition to any other supporting and/or opposing information. So let me ask, for anyone who may know the answer; If a SO is civilly committed, is there a mental illness diagnosis? What is it? Are they then eligible for social security disability benefits? (TIA)

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomoresorrow View Post
    Got it! Thank you for explaining that to me Logical.

    I've got alot of questions running through my mind right now...
    Although I knew about SO civil commitments, somehow I missed a HUGE piece of this process! I did not realize, until now, that a state's mental health department (DMH) were the managers/decision-makers in the process. It was my understanding that the decision was (1) a recommendation made by a correctional facility's staff psychiatrist/psychologist, then (2) it went before a judge who would make the final decision based on the correctional facility's psychiatrist/psychologist recommendation, in addition to any other supporting and/or opposing information. So let me ask, for anyone who may know the answer; If a SO is civilly committed, is there a mental illness diagnosis? What is it? Are they then eligible for social security disability benefits? (TIA)
    If anyone knows the answers for certain please post. I am going from memory here and may be totally wrong.

    It is my understanding that a sex offender can be ruled a danger to society and can be civilly committed in a mental health hospital indefinitely before they are released from prison.

    If there is a specific diagnosis it is probably different with each S.O.

    The civil commitment law was made because these animals were getting out of prison and their doctor's knew they would re-offend. To prevent this the civil commitment law was put into effect, tested in the courts, and still stands today thank God.

    I doubt they get any benefits as they are being cared for by the state.

    The idea of Jessica's law was not to let the really bad ones out into society again and to have them civilly committed. That's why they needed two in person sessions with different doctors to decide who would and would not re-offend.

    My guess is they have been ignoring Jessica's Law since it went into effect over 3 years ago.
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  4. #34
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    I'd just like to clarify that the questions asked in my reply/post above are not asked out of any care/concern for a SO's rights or liberties as I believe that SO's cannot be rehabilitated therefore I support life imprisonment and even the DP in some cases for these monsters - that said, the reason for my questions and yes, my concern, is because I do not want these monster's crimes attributed to mental illness! If they are currently being civilly committed based on a mental illness diagnosis, that makes them a patient, not a prisoner, and in that case, it will only be a matter of time when that comes back to bite us all in the arse. I for one do not believe that what drives them to offend is caused by mental illness, nor do I believe that the offense, in and of itself, is, or should be, deemed & given it's own mental illness diagnosis - Are we supposed to feel better about it because at least for now, for today, they're out of society? What about next year, or the next... when the measures used to keep them locked up (where they should be), end up being the very thing that sets them free AND could end up being a get out of jail free card somewhere down the road because, "he didn't mean to molest or rape those 3,5,8,...girls/boys, he has a mental illness, he can't help himself, it's not his fault..." Not meaning to rant here - this just came as a surprise to me...

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  5. #35
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    I found the following link which explains the state of Minnesota's sex offender civil commitment process;

    http://www.ombudmhdd.state.mn.us/cct...cfactsheet.htm

    ETA: Snipped from above link, BBM;
    Usually, the petition for commitment is filed shortly before the person is scheduled to be released from prison, after having served a complete prison term.

    I don't know what California's SO civil commitment process is entirely (still digging) but I thought somebody here might know if the same (bolded above) applies; the offender has to serve their complete sentence in order to be civilly committed? I wonder how many of these 17,000 SO's served their full sentences?
    Last edited by nomoresorrow; 03-07-2010 at 11:09 PM.

  6. #36
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    Thu, 03/04/2010 - 02:13
    After Marc Klaas’ daughter, Polly, was kidnapped and murdered in 1993, he put together the KlaasKids Foundation, in order to create a legacy in his daughter’s name and help protect other kids with his mission of stopping crimes against children.

    Below, Klaas shares his opinion with Larry King Live blog after the news that 17-year-old Chelsea King’s body may have been found in a shallow grave in San Diego and that a registered sex offender has been charged with her rape and murder.

    My name is Marc Klaas and my daughter Polly was murdered by a violent sexual predator in 1993.

    In 2006, Californian’s voted to pass Proposition 83, otherwise known as Jessica’s Law. Among other things Jessica’s Law mandates that, prior to release from prison, violent sex offenders who meet certain offense criteria be evaluated in person by two expert psychiatrists or psychologists. If the experts agree that the prisoner is a violent sexual predator with a high risk of reoffending the prisoner must be referred to the District Attorney for civil commitment proceedings.

    Currently, California’s Department of Mental Health (DMH) Sex Offender Commitment Program managers are simply providing a cursory ‘paper screening’ or record review of potential predators by one mental health professional in lieu of an expert panel in-person evaluation. This violation of California law has thus far dumped more than 17,000 potential sexual predators back into society.

    In 2007, convicted rapist Gilton Petri was released as a result of a ‘paper screening’ and within 4 days kidnapped, raped, and murdered 15-year old Alyssa Gomez. Petri is currently awaiting trial for Alyssa’s murder.

    Are you as outraged as I am that California’s DMH is ignoring the law at the expense of public safety? If so, contact Attorney General Jerry Brown and demand that he take appropriate action now. For maximum effect call, fax, write and email him now. I have provided his contact information below.

    Mailing address:
    P.O. Box 944255

    Sacramento, CA 94244-2550

    Phone: (800) 952-5225

    Fax: (916) 323-5341

    Email using online forms: http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general.php


    http://www.gwpublishing.org/aggregator/categories/4

  7. #37
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    If calif. is doing this then Texas probably is and other states. State laws are broken a lot by people ignoring and taking shortcuts, but this is outrageous. Something has to be done.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomoresorrow View Post
    Got it! Thank you for explaining that to me Logical.

    I've got alot of questions running through my mind right now...
    Although I knew about SO civil commitments, somehow I missed a HUGE piece of this process! I did not realize, until now, that a state's mental health department (DMH) were the managers/decision-makers in the process.
    Civil commitment of RSOs occurs after an individual has either served their full sentence or been released on parole, and falls under a special provision for sexually violent predators (SVP) under California's Lanterman-Petris-Short Act (LPS) aka California Welfare & Institution Code, sec 5000 (WIC) (click here), specifically, the 1996 Sex Offender Commitment Program (click here), and as such is managed under the department of mental health (DMH). In other words, federal, state and county correction systems cannot legally confine an individual beyond their sentence.

    This is where the mental health department and civil commitment come into play. What this involves is risk assessments using any one or more tools including but not limited to the violence risk appraisal guide (VRAG), sex offender risk appraisal guide (SORAG), Static-99, penile plethysmograph (PPG), and/or psyhcopathy check list-revised (PCL-R).

    As for being diagnosed with a mental illness? While RSOs can, and often do, have dual diagnosis, such as, for example, meeting the criteria for a paraphilia (such as pedophilia) under Axis I and anti-social personality disorder under Axis II, in the DSM-IV, these do not meet Social Security disability criteria. Futhermore, their felony conviction disqualifies them from receiving social security disability benefits, even if they are found to have a qualifying mental disorder. Importantly, while the aforementioned is specific to California, several states have implemented similar civil commitment models for SVPs.

    Furthermore, this model has been, and continues to be, challenged as unconstitutional by the ACLU. Specifically, as violating the individual's 8th amendment rights (i.e., Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted).

    That being said, since this type of commitment does not receive federal funding, expect to see more of this (i.e., the releasing of SVPs) as our economy continues to go down the toilet and states start running out of money.

    ETA ~ Here's the 2008 report from the California Sex Offender Management Board: PDF
    Last edited by shadowraiths; 03-08-2010 at 04:18 AM. Reason: grammar



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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogicalMinds View Post
    Patty I am afraid that many states are bending the law and letting these offenders out again in the name of budget cuts

    I have posted before about my disgust at the DCF in Florida..

    people on these boards say "report abuse"...or "I would turn them in" or "why didn't anyone turn them in?" but the fact is that with double speak and double talk our DCF found a way to cut their case load...they just don't take the cases

    Cries for help to DCF hot line go unheeded by design

    Reminds me of "newspeak" in George Orwell's 1984 book....just change the parameters and all is "well"....
    Florida solved the problem of too many cases by just not taking more cases, by ignoring them. A quote from the article " Beginning last year, DCF dramatically increased the number of abuse calls considered unworthy of investigation.

    In an effort to reduce workload -- and the system-wide stress that high case loads generate -- intake workers at the Tallahassee-based hot line have been screening out tens of thousands of calls"

    Likewise, California has decided to simply NOT follow their own guidelines as written under Jessica's Law....they have decided on a rubber stamp approach to let these predators out of prison to control spending on prison budget.

    and what else is going on??

    How can we find out what is being done in our own states in regards to Jessica's Law?? thanks
    And then for the cases they do investigate and find to be problematic, they put the family under "DCF Protective Services" and allow the children to remain in the abusive and/or neglectful home.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patty G View Post
    Just want to stick this article in here:

    Constitutionality of 'Jessica's Law' questioned
    Treating sex predators differently from other violent offenders may violate equal protection guarantees, the California Supreme Court says.

    January 29, 2010|By Maura Dolan

    The California Supreme Court ruled 5 to 2 Thursday that a 2006 ballot initiative that permitted the state to lock up sexually violent predators indefinitely may violate constitutional guarantees of equal protection.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan...or29-2010jan29
    I think you are getting to the heart of why CA can ignore Jessica's Law. IIRC the Supreme Court of the United States will be ruling this summer on Delaware's law that essentially extends the sentences of SO's who are deemed violent and unrehabilitated.

    We need state and federal laws to catch up to what we know about predators. How about truth in sentencing? If you are convicted of a felony, why shouldnt you have to serve at least the minimum of your sentence?
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  11. #41
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    Why not just have a manditory 25 year sentence for sexual advances, child porn
    with mandatory ankle bracelet for life, with a clause that if new technology advances *like an implant chip that they will have that enforced

    instad of 12, I would raise the age of child to 14

    a mandatory life sentence for rape/sex acts..no parole, no nothing

    and death penalty for murder of a child??

    and make this a federal law...with no loopholes, no long list of "appeals"

    if they have the dna they must pay should be the motto

    swift, no loopholes...no yammering about their mental health or their poor childhood

    if you mess with a child , have child porn...25 years

    ~~~~~~~~~

    from 14 to 16......same as above for murder, and maybe 25 years for rape
    enforced....no parole

    build federal prisons and keep these jerks working their lives away..let them do scut work or whatever....let them earn their keep

    I think we need Federal Laws and a federal database..these states can't or won't enforce things....Kidnaping is a federal offense....all of this should be a federal offense

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    Well, first, the spotlight needs to go on this, and it needs to shine very brightly.

    It's one thing to blog and write letters, but those of us that are capable need to use all our rights, and that includes assembly, peaceful protest, and the press. I am not going to use this as a platform to organize a movement, mainly since I'm on the other side of the country, but there are some closer that I know could organize marches, protests and light a fire under the press.

    Write the guys that hold the purse strings. The Tourism Commission, the Governor (obviously) and the person that is in charge of bringing new residents, businesses and tourists in to the state. Tell them that you are considering leaving the state, and taking your business and tax dollars with you, as you no longer feel safe.

    Look into civil procedures. Class action lawsuits. See if there is a dereliction of duty.
    Start climbing up the ladder, this will likely go federal before there are changes.

    Learn the actual name and numbers for the law. If anyone is serious about changing this and ready to speak out, those numbers should be as familiar as their own birthdate.

    I'll have to come back when I'm a little less shell shocked.
    ITA - this should be done. You said it so clearly, thank you.

    I am a survivor of incest, I am a survivor of a violent sexual predator, I am a survivor of a sexually abusive physician, I have a step-daughter who is a victim of a repeat child sex offender. I have spent my working life in either the Dept of Corrections, Parole Division, or working in a law firm. I say this only to give you perspective of my 5 decades of living with this issue on my mind:

    Personally I feel its time to change the laws that if you molest or commit violent and/or violent and sexual assaults a child you get life without parole. These predators can not be rehabilitated. Furthermore, the damage they inflict on their victims if lifelong. It usually damages that persons immediate family and damages generations to come as well. IT TAKES THAT PERSONS LIFE - so the punishment should be permanent. No parole officers to check up on them, no psychiatric committees to determine if they are SAFE again.....the numbers speak for themselves, THEY ARE NEVER SAFE ON THE STREET. They are the worst kind of lifeform. Put them in a prison solely of their own kind. THIS IS THE ONLY SOLUTION THAT WILL WORK aside from simply eliminating their existence.

    Thank you for letting me get this off my chest.

  13. #43
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    Hi, Im new here. I agree one strike and your out for sex offenders. They go on to kill because first, they dont want to get caught by leaving molestation victims alive. and also because the killing brings an additional thrill to their crime. There is no treatment, when are the law makers going to get this?


    RIP McStays

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogicalMinds View Post
    Why not just have a manditory 25 year sentence for sexual advances, child porn
    with mandatory ankle bracelet for life, with a clause that if new technology advances *like an implant chip that they will have that enforced

    instad of 12, I would raise the age of child to 14

    a mandatory life sentence for rape/sex acts..no parole, no nothing

    and death penalty for murder of a child??

    and make this a federal law...with no loopholes, no long list of "appeals"

    if they have the dna they must pay should be the motto

    swift, no loopholes...no yammering about their mental health or their poor childhood

    if you mess with a child , have child porn...25 years

    ~~~~~~~~~

    from 14 to 16......same as above for murder, and maybe 25 years for rape
    enforced....no parole

    build federal prisons and keep these jerks working their lives away..let them do scut work or whatever....let them earn their keep

    I think we need Federal Laws and a federal database..these states can't or won't enforce things....Kidnaping is a federal offense....all of this should be a federal offense
    BBM

    Absolutely, I agree. I've always thought that I would never be able to vote for the DP if I were on a jury, because I might have that little nagging question in my mind, "but what if there is a million to one chance that he really is innocent, and he is."

    But our innocent children ? And women who never stand a chance to fight off a strong man ? Their lives taken ? I'll volunteer to flip the switch, or pop the shot, just let me know when and where. And I'd be able to look him right in the eye when I did it, if he was in my field of vision.

    Why are *any* of them walking the streets if they were in prison twice for SO's. Why on earth would we let them out. You might think, well he did this only once, maybe he will never do it again, but the ones that were convicted twice ?? Heck yes they are gonna do it again. Prison didn't phase them one bit after the first 2 rounds - they are back for more.

    I can't think of a way that any of us could find out what our states are *really* doing when the sentence is finally served out, unless we knew someone like the above folks who work there. Well, maybe some of the detectives know.

    I know this; this crap needs to stop right now. Just that one child who lost her life 4 days after he got out of prison, should be enough to make everyone angry, and it should darn sure prompt those who have the influence and power, to make the necessary changes.

  15. #45
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    Steven Ing, posted to one of my videos regarding Amber and shared some insight to the UTubers.

    I visited Mr. Eng's UTube Channel and spotted some videos he uploaded regarding his counseling of "Sex Offenders."

    Bio of Mr. Eng:

    Steven Ing, M.A., M.F.T., is a therapist in private practice who counsels sex offenders referred by the Dept. of Parole & Probation. Over the last 11 years, his work with thousands of sex offenders has resulted in an extremely low recidivism rate.
    A clinician and author, he presents regularly as an expert on the treatment of sex offenders.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/SOTVPRESENTS

    I created a little mini video in order to attach all the Episodes regarding Mr. Ing's counseling of Sex Offenders.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQpX3WUAJaE[/ame]

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