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Thread: Dogs

  1. #151
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    jjenny, I don't know of any documentation of a dog running a trail successfully six months later. I've called in to a number a fellow groups in our area and neither do they. I am still looking for some sort of case history on it though.


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  3. #152
    Thank you both, sarx and JTSYS (I think I got that right). While I could see a good trailing dog working a walked path or even an around town car trail, I could see things going rapidly downhill on a freeway or as time went on, and you confirmed my thought process. Not that it wouldn't be possible, the possibility just declines as circumstances add up (months passing, distance traveled, person goes to the library and takes a bath in the sink with perfumed soap and puts on someone else's clothes(that's a joke), etc).

    HRD/Cadaver dogs are a different case of biscuits, I know. How they works makes complete sense to me.
    Just the facts, Ma'am.


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  5. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarx View Post
    jjenny, I don't know of any documentation of a dog running a trail successfully six months later. I've called in to a number a fellow groups in our area and neither do they. I am still looking for some sort of case history on it though.
    sarx, I can make a few calls myself. It just seems like the clarification on this is nil. Are we mostly concerned about whether or not this company is making valid claims and/or the family was taken advantage of by this company?


  6. #154
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    I think that it would be good to try and figure out on several levels. One, the media blitz on it has been out of control and letting people know the truth of it would be good (even if only on here).
    Secondly, and probably more critical for me is for future cases and future families that are going through this. Even if money is not involved, the false sense of hope that come from things like this can be devastating. (Anyone remember Sandra Anderson?).


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  8. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarx View Post
    I think that it would be good to try and figure out on several levels. One, the media blitz on it has been out of control and letting people know the truth of it would be good (even if only on here).
    Secondly, and probably more critical for me is for future cases and future families that are going through this. Even if money is not involved, the false sense of hope that come from things like this can be devastating. (Anyone remember Sandra Anderson?).
    I agree entirely. Sadly, we're not getting any televised or printed reporting here (opposite coast) on this, but then again we not getting reporting on a lot of MP cases that are active here either. I never know if it's better for the media to be blitzing or hushing, ya know?
    And yes I totally agree about the false sense of hope. I do believe there is a purpose and use for proper search techniques, carried out in the proper fashion, with the appropriate people running them. That's just hope, not false hope IMO.

    ETA- I do not know the Sandra Anderson Case. Will look it up.
    Last edited by JustToSeeYouSmile; 03-10-2010 at 08:49 PM.


  9. #156
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    I was thinking this was a MP's case but just looked it up quickly and seems like we should know SA...but I don't. (?)
    I know handlers/trainers that essentially lie by 'planting' in practice runs, but man, in a work environment??


  10. #157
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    It wasn't even for money either, for glory? Validation? She worked the World Trade Center too IIRC. It's horrible, but not everyone is out there for the right reasons.


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  12. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarx View Post
    It wasn't even for money either, for glory? Validation? She worked the World Trade Center too IIRC. It's horrible, but not everyone is out there for the right reasons.
    Jeez, mental illness is the only thing I can come up with??? Did you guys work 9/11? There were not that many dogs there (considering.) I am sort of sickened by that sort of thing...
    Last edited by JustToSeeYouSmile; 03-10-2010 at 09:20 PM. Reason: spelling


  13. #159
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    Nope. They're talking about the dogs over in the tips thread again, Grace is the one that stirred this all up. When will there be a show on that actually only focuses on facts? Or if they want to speculate they clearly state that and then actually get a panel of experts in to help. I am so irritated with the media.


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  15. #160
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    Thank you so much Sarx and JTSYS for all the helpful and patient explanations. I have been wondering (and please forgive me if I just dont get it), what if the killer kept an item of hers as a trophy of some kind. What if he travelled that area frequently following the same route? What if he was the one at the library after murdering her and still had her scent on him? Would it be plausible/possible for the dogs to pick up scent then?
    Sorry, I know nothing of this topic, but your discussions intrigued me!


  16. #161
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    Hookednan, hope we're helping u and others to better understand what dogs do and are all about.
    The kind of residual scent you are talking about would be very hard to track/trail on a fresh trail, no way on an aged one.
    Don't apologize for not knowing, it's fantastic that you're on here and trying to figure it out the right way! Feel free to ask any question, never worry about sounding stupid, there's no such thing as a dumb question.


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  18. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOOKEDNAN View Post
    Thank you so much Sarx and JTSYS for all the helpful and patient explanations. I have been wondering (and please forgive me if I just dont get it), what if the killer kept an item of hers as a trophy of some kind. What if he travelled that area frequently following the same route? What if he was the one at the library after murdering her and still had her scent on him? Would it be plausible/possible for the dogs to pick up scent then?
    Sorry, I know nothing of this topic, but your discussions intrigued me!
    If whoever killed Amber had something of hers that was scent specific for a HR dog, and left it or was at a place such as the library- and who someone knew to take dogs to at some point...an HRD dog would hit on that even 6 months after the fact.


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  20. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustToSeeYouSmile View Post
    If whoever killed Amber had something of hers that was scent specific for a HR dog, and left it or was at a place such as the library- and who someone knew to take dogs to at some point...an HRD dog would hit on that even 6 months after the fact.
    But that's taking it back to working remains and then we get back to the question of how would they get to the library in the first place?

    I think what hookednan was asking is if a dog could follow a car that had an item of the person's in it but not the person. (ie- the dogs trailed 6 months later a trail left by say her backpack that was in the car). Am I getting the question hookednan?
    Last edited by sarx; 03-11-2010 at 02:32 AM. Reason: spelling


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  22. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarx View Post
    But that's taking it back to working remains and then we get back to the question of how would they get to the library in the first place?

    I think what hookednan was asking is if a dog could follow a car that had an item of the person's in it but not the person. (ie- the dogs trailed 6 months later a trail left by say her backpack that was in the car). Am I getting the question hookednan?
    If that was the question hookednan (sorry if I misunderstood) and maybe I am misunderstanding again- but in that scenario again it would depend on what was in the backpack and if the dogs knew where to 'look.' IMO dogs could not follow a trail as such unless they were HRD dogs and there was a constant scent trail, which would mean scent deposits at locations along the trail.


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  24. #165
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    In the scenario with tracking dogs following a scent from an article that is in a vehicle it is important to remember that a backpack would not be giving off rafts of skin cells as a human body would. IMO


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