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  1. #1
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    OR - Proactive response to disgruntled state employee who bought guns, 2010

    I'm posting this as it happened just north of me in Medford and is a very unique set of circumstances. Obviously, I'm pleased that no one was injured but I've got some serious concerns about the legality of all this. I am about as anti-gun as one can get but my guess is that this man's civil rights were violated.

    I thought this would be an interesting debate. There's a lot of what ifs. How many women have we seen recently who have pleaded with LE to watch a man who is stalking them, to no avail? What if the feds had seized the guy's plane who was angry with the IRS? If this man purchased the guns legally, what right did LE have to take him into custody? I note he hasn't been charged. Does he get his guns back? Now what? Hmmmm.

    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...9/NEWS/3090315

    Police act swiftly after gun purchases

    "Concerns about an Oregon Department of Transportation employee who purchased several guns after being placed on leave prompted law enforcement across Southern Oregon to step in.

    Negotiators and a SWAT team from Medford police safely took a man whose name wasn't released into protective custody Monday morning in the 500 block of Effie Street, Medford police said in a news release.

    He was taken to Rogue Valley Medical Center for a mental-health evaluation.

    The man recently had been placed on administrative leave from his job and was "very disgruntled," the news release said.

    ODOT Communications Director Patrick Cooney said there were administrative, personnel matters involved that limited what the department could discuss.

    However, the state agency had reported concerns about the man to law enforcement agencies, who started monitoring him, officials said.

    "We had concerning information regarding a personnel issue and were watching the subject," Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters said.

    In two days, the man bought a Heckler & Koch .45-caliber universal self-loading handgun, a Walther .380-caliber handgun and an AK-47 assault rifle, Medford police Lt. Bob Hansen said. All of those firearms were purchased legally, with required record checks by the Oregon State Police.

    Authorities were "extremely concerned" that the man may have been planning to retaliate against his employers, the news release said......"

    more at link


    FWIW, the medical center rarely keeps people for mental health evals for longer than 72 hours. As I said, then what?

  2. #2
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    im not sure whats more frightening.......the fact we possibly could have had another 'disgrntled employee shooting' or that you can be arrested and put in the nut house before you do anything wrong.

  3. #3
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    Wow, not sure how I feel about this. I would say if he was suddenly exhibiting a different enough attitude to get suspended, that something was most likely going on. Did he threaten anyone at work, that he was going to "get even"?

    Did he have a logical reason for buying the guns, hunting at a cabin he rented or owns for example?

    Did he make odd statements while purchasing the guns to a clerk.

    Did he make statements to family members or friends that scared them for their safety, his safety, or the safety of those that worked with him?

    Who reported him having bought the weapons and why?

    To me there must be more to this story than meets the eye.

    I know a woman who has mental health issues, she has NEVER been violent and did not even spank her children. Her psychologist called to ask her a question about her lab work. Her 4 year old son answered the phone and the Dr asked where his Mom was and what she was doing. The son said, "She's holding a knife."

    The Dr hangs up the phone, calls the police and they are at her house in about two min. At that time the woman was cutting two peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches in 1/2, putting them on a plate with sliced apples. The police officers didn't bother to call the Dr and took her into custody, delivering her to a hospital. Wouldn't it have been prudent for the doctor to have at least tried to speak to the patient, or to the son to determine what was really going on? The son got taken into custody also, but was later released to family members.

    So, I want to know more circumstances prior to making a decision.

  4. #4
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    did he at least purches the guns illeagally? call in a threat to his office?

    im not sure i like this.

  5. #5
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    I find this to be the most highly unusual case I've seen in a long time. I'm afraid that LE's plan to ensure safety could very likely have backfired on them. And yes, kbl, the man purchased the guns entirely legally. And Sunnie, the article linked above and this one is all we know. I haven't heard anything local. FWIW, Medford is a small city and far more conservative and "by the book" than my town, Ashland. I can see this happening in our town but people still getting upset. I'm as "anti-gun bleeding heart liberal" as they come, and I'm really bothered. I'm kind of hoping this gets a little more exposure as I find it a great "talking point". As I said above, now what?

    Here's an update from today:

    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...NEWS07/3110334

    Medford man whose guns were taken by police wants them back

    "The Medford [OR] man whose firearms were seized by police for safekeeping Monday when he was taken into protective custody has asked for their return.

    David J. Pyles has asked police to return the items taken from him when a SWAT team and negotiators descended on his Effie Street home early Monday. He sent an e-mailed request today, forwarding copies to legislators and media outlets.

    Medford police said they were watching the Effie Street home starting Sunday night in response to law enforcement concerns about the man after he was placed on administrative leave from his job on Thursday.

    A Medford police news release described him as disgruntled and said police knew he had legally purchased several firearms over two days. Police identified the guns as a Heckler & Koch .45-caliber handgun, a Walther .380-caliber handgun and an AK-47 rifle.

    In what police described as a "proactive" move, they wanted to defuse the situation before people started their daily routines on Monday...."

    more at link

  6. #6
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    I hope we learn more about the incident. I still think there has to be more to the story. It will be VERY interesting to see if they give this man his guns back! MissIzzy, thank you for keeping us caught up on this!

  7. #7
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    I don't like where this is going if you know what I mean, and yet OTOH, not knowing anything else, I do question the man's purchase. Now a .45 can be used in hunting, but a .380 and an AK-47, uh, neither are weapons you'd see your average deer hunter carrying, and for the most part, hunters who use hand guns are a small segment of the hunting population. They tend to like .44mags. Of course the AK is a rifle, but there again, most hunters would look at someone crosswise if they brought an AK as means to hunt deer.

    I"d like to know exactly how much time elapsed between his administrative leave and the purchase of the weapons. "Recently" is not good enough for me. Unless they get signed statements from a psychiatrist or two, they need to return the man's guns to him. He's done nothing wrong.

    Let's say you work for XYQ corp or have a govt. job, and someone there, your superior, doesn't like you, and sees to it that you get fired. That person can then turn around call up a LE agency, and say you are a threat whether it's true or not. We can't have that in this country, but it sure is becoming apparent that maybe the way we're headed, and I don't like it one little bit.
    Last edited by justthinkin; 03-11-2010 at 11:00 PM.

  8. #8
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    since when is an ak-47 legal?

  9. #9
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    A semi-automatic AK-47 is legal for private citizens in the state of Oregon.

    I swear to high heaven I never thought I'd type those words, kbl. You do force a girl to stretch herself.

  10. #10
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    ak-47 with there high velocity bullets should be illeagal automatic or not. that's a weapon the vc and nva used in vietnam, a russian assault weapon


  11. #11
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    kbl--let me remind you, love, that you are preaching to the choir over here.

    I posted this article as I knew that many would find it shocking and intriguing. I know I do. I wish no one had guns but that's not my call. I am alarmed when LE goes in to protect proactively. If I could only share how many times I've tried to get the Medford Police to do something proactively. It just doesn't happen.

    I keep wondering if a medical professional made a mandated report. That is the only scenario I can come up with.

  12. #12
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    Another update and just a reminder. I don't think we've heard details yet from anyone other than Mr. Pyles. Everyone is waiting to see just what disturbing and emergent info that LE used to act proactively in this case:

    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...2/NEWS/3120325

    A phone call from a police negotiator that jolted David J. Pyles awake in the predawn hours of Monday continues to jangle the nerves of observers monitoring the way authorities took the Medford man into protective custody and seized his firearms.

    Pyles came forward Thursday to reclaim his legally purchased weapons, publicly identifying himself in an e-mail sent to Medford police and forwarded to state legislators and selected media outlets.

    RELATED STORIES
    Former ODOT worker wants guns returned; police say they'll comply
    He also said he has contacted the Oregon Firearms Federation for possible legal assistance. Pyles directed questions to that group and said he would make only limited statements until he had consulted with an attorney.

    Kevin Starrett, director of the Canby-based lobbying organization — which also has a foundation for protecting gun rights through court cases — had been monitoring the incident that landed Pyles in the hospital for a mental health evaluation and resulted in five of his guns being held by police for "safekeeping."

    "It's chilling," he said.

    "I don't know if this is just a gun case," Starrett said. "It's about whether your freedom can be taken away without a criminal case or charges against you......."


    more at link

  13. #13
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    i tend to agree with that guy........i dont like all the weapons he bought, or the type. but he didnt buy them illeagally, and that we know of he wasnt threatening anyone.

    last i checked this was america, where you have to do something wrnng to be arrested.

  14. #14
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    Where I worked, a woman had a very nasty fight with her husband one day. The next day, when she was about to leave, it was discovered that her husband was in the parking lot, sitting in a car next to her's, displaying a shotgun. The police were notified but it turned out that the guy wasn't breaking any laws. It created a very difficlt situation. The SWAT squad was called and there was a stand off and the guy finally drove off. He wasn't arrested, the gun wasn't taken away; nothing. Oh, and he eventually worked out his problems with his wife and they are still together.

  15. #15
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    mikeysmommom is offline "A grandchild fills a space in your heart that you never knew was empty...."
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    If they were afraid he was going to have a shoot out at work, they should have hired armed security guards.They had no right to do what they did.He is going to be very wealthy from his lawsuit against his employers and the police.It seems to me we are losing our rights more and more.
    I Love You MOM 6/16/32 - 5/30/09





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