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  1. #1
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    Question Is it possible

    This has nothing to do with whether RDI or IDI,I am just curious what your opinions are.

    Could this(or something similar) be how she ended up both strangled and with her skull fractured(IMO she wasn't hit with something,the scalp was not damaged,and some speculated it could have been caused by some sort of pressure)?It's not impossible that both happened at the same time,right?


    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote[/ame]




    Re this position........it's very easy for the head to be hit against the fixed wood when you pull the cord or(guess it depends on how hard and fast you pull and if the victim is restrained by something else as well)?



    The rice is already cooked...

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    This has nothing to do with whether RDI or IDI,I am just curious what your opinions are.

    Could this(or something similar) be how she ended up both strangled and with her skull fractured(IMO she wasn't hit with something,the scalp was not damaged,and some speculated it could have been caused by some sort of pressure)?It's not impossible that both happened at the same time,right?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote


    Re this position........it's very easy for the head to be hit against the fixed wood when you pull the cord or(guess it depends on how hard and fast you pull and if the victim is restrained by something else as well)?



    Hi Madeleine,

    I want to clarify that I didn't mean JonBenet's head trauma was caused by some sort of pressure (although pressure is involved). The physics of the injury indicate a low velocity/high pressure trauma. For example, a bullet wound is high velocity/low pressure. Someone who is pushed or shoved whose head contacts an object is a low velocity/high pressure trauma, for example. The preceding is an overly simplistic explanation.

    Velocity and pressure are relative terms and can, but not necessarily, mean two events occurred simultaneously. The injuries appear differently depending on the physics of the injury.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by BOESP; 03-11-2010 at 11:02 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    Hi Madeleine,

    I want to clarify that I didn't mean JonBenet's head trauma was caused by some sort of pressure (although pressure is involved). The physics of the injury indicate a low velocity/high pressure trauma. For example, a bullet wound is high velocity/low pressure. Someone who is pushed or shoved whose head contacts an object is a low velocity/high pressure trauma, for example. The preceding is an overly simplistic explanation.

    Velocity and pressure are relative terms and can, but not necessarily, mean two events occurred simultaneously. The injuries appear differently depending on the physics of the injury.

    Thanks!
    It's likely they occurred very close together, if not at the same time. They COULD have occurred together, but I see 2 people being involved if that was the case. Inflicting a bash like that would be hard to do at the same time you are pulling that cord. However, the garrote wasn't a true garrote, which usually requires two hands (one holding each end of the ligature, crossing them over each other to compress the throat. Unlike a noose, which doesn't require being pulled by two hands. A noose may not even need ONE hand, as the weight of a person and gravity are enough to tighten it. This garrote was neither a true garrote nor a true noose.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  4. #4
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    Remember JR was a expert at tying knots he had a extreme love of sailboats

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookindreams View Post
    Remember JR was a expert at tying knots he had a extreme love of sailboats
    More than a love. The family owned boats for years, even BR had a basic knowledge on knots.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  6. #6
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    The common belief is the blow to the head was caused by a blunt object, delivered with a great deal of force----someone very strong. There was not a lot of blood in the skull, so the theory is she was garotted first, and close to dying when the blow was done. IMO, it was overkill, and the perp very angry for some reason.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    The common belief is the blow to the head was caused by a blunt object, delivered with a great deal of force----someone very strong. There was not a lot of blood in the skull, so the theory is she was garotted first, and close to dying when the blow was done. IMO, it was overkill, and the perp very angry for some reason.
    I thought that the coroner determined that the blow to the head came first and the garrotte actually ended her life?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    I thought that the coroner determined that the blow to the head came first and the garrotte actually ended her life?
    Nope,he never bothered to figure that out.His conclusion was




    Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma.
    The rice is already cooked...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Nope,he never bothered to figure that out.His conclusion was




    Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma.
    Wow, talk about CYA! Why even bother to have an autopsy if your findings are going to be so ambiguous? We should not be surprised that JonBenet never received justice. She never stood a chance regardless of who killed her.

  10. #10
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    There was that big circus re the Ramsey's and the the DA "kidnapping " the body for the funeral before more tests could have been done.True,that was a huge mistake.

    BUT that has nothing to do (IMO) with the coroner's mistakes,his findings and everything he did NOT do.
    The rice is already cooked...


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    I thought that the coroner determined that the blow to the head came first and the garrotte actually ended her life?
    They determined that the head trauma came first and the strangulation occured 10 to 45 minutes following this.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy23 View Post
    They determined that the head trauma came first and the strangulation occured 10 to 45 minutes following this.
    "They" did no such thing. The coroner who actually performed the autopsy did not determine which came first. Either could have killed her independently of the other, and Mayer was not able to (or chose not to) say which came first.

    However, another well-known forensic doctor, after reviewing the autopsy information, speculated that in his opinion, the head blow came first-taking up to 45 minutes or so (but may have been much less) to kill her, during which time the strangulation occurred.

    To me, one of the ways I see the events of that night happening is that the head blow DID come first, possibly as a reaction to her scream. Then, when she collapsed immediately, she was presumed to be dead. At that point, she would have been in shock or in a coma almost immediately following such a severe blow to the head, and her respiration and body temperature would have dropped as well, giving the appearance to an untrained person that she was dead, when she may have still been alive.
    Having a dead child in the house is problematic for residents of the house (but would not have been for an intruder- one of the reasons I rule out an intruder-they have no need to stage her death).
    There was also the problem of no external signs of the head trauma- so no apparent reason for the death. The strangulation provided an instantly apparent cause of death. There may also have been the fear that without an obvious cause of death, autopsy would certainly find the fractured skull-evidence of a bash. What they didn't realize is that an autopsy is mandatory in ALL child deaths, and in any death where the cause is not known.
    The pineapple found in her digestive tract was another autopsy surprise to the Rs- they would never have imagined it would be identified. That's why they had to lie about it.
    Last edited by DeeDee249; 04-28-2010 at 09:02 PM.
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  13. #13
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    DeeDee, I think you nailed it with the above post. There would be no need for an intruder to stage the death. They would only be using up time - time that they would need to get out of house undetected.

  14. #14
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    but would not have been for an intruder- one of the reasons I rule out an intruder-they have no need to stage her death
    Not a need, but a want. People don't only garrote and position bodies for cover-up, they also do it for role-playing, to satisfy desires, to play out and stage fantasies, etc.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ami View Post
    Not a need, but a want. People don't only garrote and position bodies for cover-up, they also do it for role-playing, to satisfy desires, to play out and stage fantasies, etc.
    Yes. But in THIS case, the parents and sibling of the victim were supposedly asleep upstairs. They could have woken up at any time and gone to her room to find her missing, and searched the house. In this case, NO intruder would have hung around after killing her, especially after she screamed. They would have run out of the house asap. That staging took time, including unwrapping presents in the basement to look for the clean panties (which no intruder, including one who may have known the family, would have known about).
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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