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  1. #31
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    It is very interesting to think that the Lyon girls could be linked in some way to this case.

    As I've posted on here previously, I was a senior in high school in Dallas, Texas when this happened. Dallas is about 45 minutes or less from Ft. Worth. My parents worried about me and my friends going to the mall by ourselves, so we had to call our parents from a pay phone once we got to the mall, and again when we were leaving the mall. I remember watching the news and thinking how awful it was that people could just disappear. Now I realize that it happens every day, but back then I had no idea.

  2. #32
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    It has seemed to me that not enough emphasis has been placed (especially on the Websleuth Lyon sisters discussion) on the meaning and significance of conducting a multiple kidnapping in a crowded mall at a peak holiday shopping day.

    The crimes were multi-layered, not only in the misdirection ruses used by the perpetrator, but by the nature of committing a crime in front of all in the plain light of day. The crimes can be viewed through a lens in which the criminal was attempting to taunt the police, and maximally injure the communities and populace by enacting a crime that says "your young daughters are not safe".

    It becomes in this way a crime against families, the police, the communities, girls/women and the very fabric of society.

    In retrospect it is so obvious that a criminal could have easily done the same crime in more then one locale and LE in different communities never connecting the two. Also this was a time before serial killers were even defined as such. Police forces were territorial and refused to communicate with one another. Very little computer technology was available nor used.

    Another layer that becomes painfully tragic was revealed in the DeBardeleben A&E special on him in which the Secret Service arrested him in 1976 for passing a counterfeit $100 bill in a Montgomery County mall (same county as Wheaton Plaza where the Lyon girls were abducted). At that time the Secret Service found DeBardeleben's counterfeit printing press (bought in Wheaton Maryland) in a hide-away house in Arlington, VA. They also found hundreds of homemade porno pictures including photos of "barely pubescent" girls who appeared to photographed and put in bondage against their will.

    The Secret Service did not pursue DeBardeleben for any sexual predator crimes at that time (1976) which may have easily connected him to the missing trio and the Lyon sisters (with Wheaton down the street from the DC home office of the Secret Service). These agents lived and worked in the very community in which the Lyon sisters crimes were plastered all over the media, yet it may be that they let evidence slip right through their hands. This seems to be a somewhat typical scenario of crime investigation at that time.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefirstman View Post
    Another layer that becomes painfully tragic was revealed in the DeBardeleben A&E special on him in which the Secret Service arrested him in 1976 for passing a counterfeit $100 bill in a Montgomery County mall (same county as Wheaton Plaza where the Lyon girls were abducted). At that time the Secret Service found DeBardeleben's counterfeit printing press (bought in Wheaton Maryland) in a hide-away house in Arlington, VA. They also found hundreds of homemade porno pictures including photos of "barely pubescent" girls who appeared to photographed and put in bondage against their will.

    The Secret Service did not pursue DeBardeleben for any sexual predator crimes at that time (1976) which may have easily connected him to the missing trio and the Lyon sisters (with Wheaton down the street from the DC home office of the Secret Service). These agents lived and worked in the very community in which the Lyon sisters crimes were plastered all over the media, yet it may be that they let evidence slip right through their hands. This seems to be a somewhat typical scenario of crime investigation at that time.
    I find this information very disturbing, i.e., the "barely pubsecent" girls apparently in bondage situations. It is hard to fathom why no sexual predator crimes were brought against him at that time, regardless of whether the Secret Service connected him with the Lyon sisters or not.

    The Secret Service may have felt their only duty was to investigate the counterfeiting crimes, altough how anyone in good conscience could overlook those photographs is hard to believe. It seems local LE should have been informed about them, if nothing else.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefirstman View Post
    They also found hundreds of homemade porno pictures including photos of "barely pubescent" girls who appeared to photographed and put in bondage against their will.
    I wonder if the Secret Service ever gave those photos to the FBI and if the FBI ever tried to compare the girls in those photos with missing persons? I would hope so, but maybe they didn't.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marilynilpa View Post
    I find this information very disturbing, i.e., the "barely pubsecent" girls apparently in bondage situations. It is hard to fathom why no sexual predator crimes were brought against him at that time, regardless of whether the Secret Service connected him with the Lyon sisters or not.

    The Secret Service may have felt their only duty was to investigate the counterfeiting crimes, altough how anyone in good conscience could overlook those photographs is hard to believe. It seems local LE should have been informed about them, if nothing else.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHlezJ9evGI

    Youtube link above of 1 of 10 of the A&E special on DeBardeleben.

    Deeply disturbing it is. Please note in the show's description of DeBardeleben first counterfeit arrest (which I discovered was for passing a fake $100 bill in 1976 at a Montgomery County mall through a crime magazine article that I purchased because it tracked DeBardeleben's life of crime- may have actually been passed at The Wheaton Plaza - same place the Lyon girls were last seen) the Secret Service flick a light switch on in a second room in his printing press hideaway and film projector comes on and a porno movie is projected onto the far wall. Please notice the reported dozens of homemade porno photos discovered tacked to the wall above the bed in the same said room.

    Further investigation into that room were reports that it smelled rank, and he had hand guns tucked under pillows and such.

    Additionally DeBardeleben was tried (and clearly guilty) but released on a technicality of raping, sodomizing an underage girl (12 years old I believe) with another man in 1968 in Prince Georges County (PG). They reportedly coerced her into their vehicle and raped her with a soda bottle. PG county is another county that is officially considered a suburb county of Washington DC. A few miles from the Secret Service headquarters and borders on Montgomery County.

    In 1971 he had lured a realtor into a secluded home under a pretense that he was interested in buying it and he murdered her in cold blood. Sketches of his face were made and his handwriting was on file at the real-estate office the day the women was murdered. Had the Secret Service done what was considered basic police work by today's standards they could have saved many, many people from murder and the agony of losing loved ones!

    I believe that the Secret Service's drive to convict DeBardeleben of his sex crimes in 1983 (2nd arrest for being the "Mall Passer") was motivated by agents' guilt for not having done more during his 1976 arrest and convictions.

    In time frame in question (1975-76 I believe) DeBardeleben opened a business in a part of DC that was dangerous and seedy called "The Camera's Eye" where any person could come in and rent a camera, a room and hire a woman and create their own pornography. The police considered the place a menace in this troubled part of town and often had calls to tend to the place for illegal fire arms and endless violations. The place was closed down do to its problematic nature.

    I believe that the Secret Service's neglect to properly put DeBardeleben away in 1976 was related to the fact that most police forces were mostly if not all male. Women and crimes against women and children were not given the kind of priority they are in today's America. Some serial killers were able to take advantage of this trend in police work. I could give many examples, but this 1976 Secret Service blunder is one the most very striking ones.
    Last edited by KateB; 04-06-2015 at 12:34 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefirstman View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHlezJ9evGI
    I believe that the Secret Service's neglect to properly put DeBardeleben away in 1976 was related to the fact that most police forces were mostly if not all male. Women and crimes against women and children were not given the kind of priority they are in today's America. Some serial killers were able to take advantage of this trend in police work. I could give many examples, but this 1976 Secret Service blunder is one the most very striking ones.
    I agree with you that the neglect of the Secret Service was probably due in large part to crimes against women and children being considered low priority.

    Thanks for the youtube video, I will certainly watch it.

    This case was already a distrubing one to me, and now that I've read your postings, it is even more disturbing.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechWriter797 View Post
    I wonder if the Secret Service ever gave those photos to the FBI and if the FBI ever tried to compare the girls in those photos with missing persons? I would hope so, but maybe they didn't.
    Obviously I have no way of knowing this, but I would bet that the Secret Service did not pass on those photos. Interagency cooperation was almost non-existent in those days. The various federal agencies were very territorial.

    Unfortunately that remains true even today - the unfortunate events of 9/11 show that, had various agencies been working together rather than competing with each other, some tragic events might not have occurred.

    In any event, this DeBardeleben guy was one sick man. Unlike many pervs we hear about, he didn't seem to have any particular age group or type of person he preyed on. Women, young girls, children - everyone seemed to be considered fair game to him.

    I may offend some people by this statement, but here it is: I believe there is evil, pure evil, in this world. People like DeBardeleben, in my estimation, are not really even human - they have given themselves over so completely to their sickness that only evil exists within them. Abducting, raping, torturing, killing - this was his lifestyle, his "normalcy". That is evil.

  8. #38
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    i got sent home from work sick yesterday and i have been reading this thread all day yesterday until late last night then all day today. i am amazed by all of the work and thought that went into this forum. i started with the very first post in the thread that is now closed and read each and every post and most of the links. even did a few googles of my own. i have a theory formed from reading these threads from beginning to end. i will tell it, but remember that i am highly medicated right now and feel free to poke holes. ok, my theory begins with the security guard at the mall. the older one who said he saw the girls in the truck with a younger sg late at night. i dont think he saw that at all, i think he DID that and told the story to cha just on the off chance that his plan wasnt perfect and somebody saw him with them in his truck after he kept them in the basement of the mall until the family either left with the car or at least stopped watching it. iirc the police didnt really get involved until the next day when the letter was received. and i think that particular security guard was ex-le so he would have known how they would react, except he probably thought the letter would smooth it over and keep it a runaway situation for a while longer. iirc, he was wrong about that. the letter baffled me throughout but after a lot of thought i think it points to the sg. i think one of you genius's in that other thread explained it perfectly about him getting rachel's dl and matching up the name and address on it with the address in the phone book. heck, he might have even called information to get that bc iirc we did that a lot back then, usually to find out where cute boys lived i got stuck on why he signed it rachel, but then it dawned on me that he probably asked their names when he perpetrated whatever ruse to get them to the basement. he could have mailed the note before anyone started looking for them and then just waited for the right time to hand them off. my gut feeling is that it was julie they wanted bc the older girls were a bit old. i think they handed julie off to someone and then handed rachel and renee off to the gas station owner who passed them on to someone in houston, or not since the witness saw blood and fresh digging. to be cont'
    Last edited by nanny2five; 08-17-2010 at 12:40 AM.
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  9. #39
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    i believe there are perverts in all walks of life. in every profession and every age group and every status. the ones who are high up in society, business or politics cant just go around kidnapping children, so they pay people a lot of money to do it for them. i do not believe its a vast conspiracy run by the government, but it is protected and sometimes people who talk about it die before they can say too much. probably why more people dont talk. there is a thread on websleuths "what happened to johnny geosch" not sure thats spelled right. there is a lot of information there if you read with the understanding that these sorts of things get exaggerated. some of it makes sense, a lot of it does not, in fact some is outrageous, but if you read it straight through you can sort of follow the thread and ignore what is obviously exaggeration. i think its a very good possibility that is what happened in this case. imo, jmo, mho and all that jazz
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  10. #40
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    News article and video: (Video at link)

    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-bea...104114388.html
    <-- Watched one too many Hanna-Barbera "teenage detective" cartoons as a kid.


  11. #41
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    bumping for the three
    Have You Seen Me?
    Deanie Marie Pyle Peters
    Mary Jo Lee Long
    Leanna "Beaner" Warner
    Jodi Huisentruit
    Amy Billig
    Rachael Garden
    Stacie Madison and Susan Smalley
    The Springfield Three
    Fawn & Rozlin Abell
    The Forth Worth Trio
    Rachel Mellon Skemp

    ***
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/photos/full/20806
    Where is Sharon Rose Sons?
    Discuss her case here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...aron+rose+sons

    "We lose our keys, we lose our glasses..but how, in America, do we lose our children?!"-Molly Bish's Mother
    **All posts are my opinion.**

  12. #42
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    bump
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  13. #43
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    Nanny2five, I agree! I have always thought the older security guard was hinky! He had the authority to detain all three girls and the basement provided a perfect place to hold them. Even if he had been caught he could have said one of them was caught shoplifting. Most concerning was his propensity to interject himself into the case even well after the fact. Almost as if he were 1) purposely trying to keep attention off himself, 2) testing the waters to see how much the police know, and 3) gloating that he got away with it. What he did with them after the fact, I don't know, but it is not unreasonable that he was paid by someone to do their dirty work.

  14. #44
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    dashamarie, I completely agree with you. I never believed that the "older" secruity guard saw them at 11:00 p.m. at night on the day they went missing. The parents were at the car doing surveillance on the vehicle the night they went missing and would have seen them. Either the girls would have seen their parents, or the parents themselves would have seen them. You're right, he put himself into the mix on purpose. I wonder if he is still around.

  15. #45
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    I believe so. I would have to go back and read through all the posts, but I recall something where he surfaced just recently to provide additional information that he "remembered". That fact, in and of itself, makes me suspicious. Why is he so interested after all these years?

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