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Thread: WA - Mackenzie Cowell, 17, Orondo/Wenatchee, 9 Feb 2010 - #12

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clueso View Post
    Thanx amysmom. Is this really the same post??? From 2009. I thought it was recent.
    It's the only call to LE re: trash with 'someone's name on it' that was posted here so I do believe this is what you saw & maybe on 3/5..Not sure about the date & it was only posted because of the importance of the location.

    ETA..You do mean posted here & not only on Mason Tribune right?
    Last edited by amysmom; 03-20-2010 at 03:01 AM.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by humwhatsup View Post
    If there was some sort of construction work going on at CB, which I have heard, that there was... (rumor), then I wonder if any car pooling was going on?
    Rio, Melissa, JamesVic, &? have all been to CB in the past few weeks so they would know about construction work in the area..I assume that is where you mean & not the house at CB.
    Last edited by amysmom; 03-20-2010 at 02:55 AM.

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  5. #103
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    Yes CB in general, heard today, that work was going on out there by ( I even hate to give initials)...someone who was recently layed off by JF

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  7. #104
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    I'm having trouble accessing this thread.

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  9. #105
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    I'm in crescent bar right now if anyone has any questions.... I could do some sleuthing

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  11. #106
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    That would be great.. Can you chat with some folks to see if someone WALKING on the beach, actually turned this body sighting in? Does not seem like a comfortable rocky/wet mid morn walk.. when there is great walks in the area not so rough, just a thought, it could possibly have been a different type of tip to LE ??? May be out of here... but just a thought..

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  13. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Vic View Post
    While I donít think this applies to the MC case, here is something interesting I found; this could be related in a way I guess?

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/10866...ingday18.shtml

    This is part 2 of a series published by the Seattle PI.
    Lackluster follow-up doesn't matter in most cases, which routinely solve themselves when people return home or are otherwise located.
    But such investigative failures can also help a killer.

    Verification of missing-person reports can be especially important. Often, killers file the reports themselves to throw off suspicion, Keppel found in a 1987 study.
    bbm

    I wonder how often that occurs and if LE has determined methods for identifying when that might be the case?

    I do not believe that occurred in the MC case. But it's possible, maybe probable, that given what we've been reading (rumors of doubling up of BFs) that the murderer is someone close to home who might not have reported MC missing but may have participated in the initial searches. I consider that to be the same as a murderer reporting someone missing. I would like to see a study to determine that frequency, as well.

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  15. #108
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    I just Hope we still have a few investigators outside of these counties HERE working on this.. Bad feeling, .......... GB MC for now N all...

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  17. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by amysmom View Post
    It does help a lot BUT I need to know in what direction you believe her feet were IF they were in the stream vs the lake/river..TIA!
    East (since only MC's feet were in the "water").
    Last edited by del rio; 03-20-2010 at 05:54 AM.

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  19. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by humwhatsup View Post
    Yes CB in general, heard today, that work was going on out there by ( I even hate to give initials)...someone who was recently layed off by JF
    I haven't seen any construction being done in CB in several months.

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  21. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Liz View Post
    Hope this is not too OT ...

    20/20 tonight is doing a story about an 18 y.o. woman who begins an online romance with a man (who represented himself as someone he was not) she met in an online chat room, which ends in murder.
    I wrote CNN about this story and sent links with everything I could find all I got back was thanks for the tip if we need anymore info from you we will email you

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  23. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by georockgirl View Post
    Or, she could have met someone from the west side at Snoqualmie Pass, say someone from Tacoma... MOO

    The theories that she went to CB of her own accord, and things proceeded at CB gives a very small window to accomplish many of the rumors, drop her car off at PC, and roll in for a haircut at 6pm. Wouldn't anyone have noticed her car at CB? All this would be taking place during daylight hours as, according to NOAA sunrise/sunset for Lat/Long of Wenatchee, sunset would have been 5:16 pm on Feb. 9th. It just doesn't make sense.
    What follows is a contrived THEORY:

    I believe MC removed her debit card from her purse when she purchased coffee and placed the card in her coat pocket afterward and drove to either the boat dock or someplace nearby for some quiet coffee time. Her cell phone also was in her pocket.

    MC then went to Target to meet her BF just after their texting; the 'hey' msg from the BF was a, "hey, where are you I'm waiting for you" tag, and MC's was a "hey I'm on my way" reply.

    Once at Target MC started into the store then saw someone (some other 'bf' or more likely a bf-wanna-be) there she did not want to encounter. She left the store but the person she wanted to avoid caught up with her and convinced her to talk over some things because MC had told him previously that she no longer wanted to see him.

    MC felt uncomfortable talking in the Target lot so they agreed to talk somewhere else. They left her vehicle at the lot and she and the killer drove in his vehicle, with no particular destination in mind. MC placed her keys in her coat pocket.

    The killer drove across the Stevens St. bridge and headed south. During the drive the killer pulled over after a few miles and they settled in the car and talked.

    At some point the killer made a move on MC but she refused and they struggled. During the confrontation MC screamed and the killer grabbed her throat to quiet her. Her fighting back and refusing his continued advancing enraged the killer to become more forceful at which time he banged her head against the vehicle door pillar or window ledge. The blow was quite significant and caused MC to pass out from concussion.

    The killer then in a panic state started driving again and continued south. While they approached the Crescent Bar property, MC began to stir. The killer pulled in to the CB property driveway but did not pull up close to the house because he was not aware it was there or was not aware it was vacant. He stopped on the curve in the driveway.

    MC awakened but the impact caused a concussion and she did not clearly remember what happened at that point but realized she was in some sort of danger after the killer began talking to her again. That refreshed her memory as to what occurred.

    MC escaped the vehicle and began to run away but she was still dizzy from the concussion and unable to move quickly. The killer exited the vehicle and began chasing her. In her confusion, MC ran down-slope on the property with the killer immediately behind. They ended up near the duck blind and they struggled.

    The struggle was brief as the killer overpowered MC and strangled her. Being unsure of whether MC was alive or dead the killer pulled the knife he always carried and stabbed MC in the throat to ensure she could no longer scream and to cause her death.

    The killer took MC's phone, debit card and keys from her coat pocket to make it look like a robbery. He turned off the phone because it either rang or he was aware of cell phone locating.

    The killer tried to use the stream water to wash off the splattered blood from the stabbing but the sky became busy with helicopters that were being used in the search for the missing snowmobiler.

    The killer wanted to hide quickly and ran towards his vehicle but realized he might transfer blood to his vehicle. He looked around and noticed the house was empty and broke in to the house to wash up.

    He returned to his vehicle and drove back to Wenatchee. He knew he was seen at Target but he believed no one saw him there with MC. To be sure, he wanted to make it appear as if MC was never there that day. He exited his vehicle and entered MC's vehicle and drove it in the opposite direction from where he killed MC.

    The killer abandoned MC's car up Pitcher Canyon Road and walked back to Wenatchee and returned to his vehicle.

    Remember: that is a THEORY ... 'moo' applies!
    Last edited by ChuckMaureen; 03-20-2010 at 07:59 AM. Reason: deleted double wording

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  25. #113
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    I know this is off topic but every time I hear about a serious crime, I always wonder what goes through a criminal's mind and think of this scene (just the part between Roarke and Hurt).

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLAbh_LceNw[/ame]
    Last edited by jgk10414; 03-20-2010 at 09:28 AM.

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  27. #114
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    Interesting ... it seems we have only weekday sleuthers?

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  29. #115
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    Early on, it was reported there was evidence of homicide in the house and on the beach.

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  31. #116
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    The search with helicopters began the morning after MC's car was found on Wed., 2/10. The search effort for the missing snowmobiler began Thr., 2/11.

    Feb 13th - The woman was found 50 yards from an empty house that is for sale, Gjesdal said. Investigators were searching the house Saturday night, along with a large crime scene area they marked around it.
    http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...kesman/?online

    Feb 18th - “It appears she was put there by someone,” said Jerry Moore, chief of administration for the Chelan County Sheriff’s Office on Saturday.
    http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...images/?online

    Feb 22nd - “But we still don’t know where she was killed,” Smith said. “So we may have another crime scene at some point.”
    http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...esults/?online

    Mar 12th - “To the extent that none of the searches to this point have revealed where the actual homicide occurred or evidence pointing to a suspect...
    http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...ystery/?online
    Last edited by giddyup; 03-20-2010 at 02:39 PM.

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  33. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by del rio View Post
    East (since only MC's feet were in the "water").
    Right..so then her body was laying east to west vs north to south which is how I pictured it all along..IOW! Her head facing the house with the rest of her under brush with just her feet exposed towards the beach..That seems the most logical way to "place" the body to me..If (in fact) it was laying what I'll call 'side-to-side' it had to be at the very east end of the brush line where the river comes into play..If this is not correct please let me know.

    Does that seem odd to anyone else? and I'd like to know how far is that exactly from the duckblind? TIA!
    Last edited by amysmom; 03-20-2010 at 12:26 PM.

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  35. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by humwhatsup View Post
    Just wondering if everyone thinks perp had his own vehical at the Boat Launch as well, or if perps vehical was already conveinently in place somewhere? PC CB? Just a thought?
    I honestly don't know..I suppose all scenarios work with parking at PC the best option for the perp but then that car would've been also noticed by the property owners prior to them going out for dinner (?) unless it was in the area but not the same exact location..Maybe not even on PC but close enough.
    Last edited by amysmom; 03-20-2010 at 12:42 PM.

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  37. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by giddyup View Post

    The woman was found 50 yards from an empty house that is for sale, Gjesdal said. Investigators were searching the house Saturday night, along with a large crime scene area they marked around it.
    http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2...kesman/?online
    sbm

    50 yards from house? That's only 1/2 the size of a football 'playing' field so not far at all..Unless they mean the end of the yard vs the house itself?

    Now I'm more then ever.
    Last edited by amysmom; 03-20-2010 at 12:54 PM.

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  39. #120
    According to google earth the distances from the corner of the garage to the river's edge at the point the stream meets the river is 66.87 yards. This is with the river level higher then it has been more recently. The duck blind would have been just to the left of the stream outlet at about 62 yards. When the water level was lower, as on the day the body was found, that would be about 77 yards from river "water" to corner of garage.

    The 50 yard point appears to be about halfway through the heavy brush, maybe even less, (it's hard to tell where the lower east lawn ends and the heavy brush starts on the google earth image).
    Last edited by alt.theory; 03-20-2010 at 01:44 PM.

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  41. #121
    IMO...it seems like some DNA/Lab results should be back by now.

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  43. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Scentamental View Post
    IMO...it seems like some DNA/Lab results should be back by now.
    IMO - Many lab results have come back. None have been conclusive as to pointing at a murderer whose DNA could not otherwise be explained through innocent means, (assuming results returned with any DNA.) If they had found some unknown DNA that pointed to the murderer, I believe LE would start going public with more information.

    As far as I know, no one has even RUMORED that LE collected DNA samples from ANY witnesses, (to me that tells me that they have nothing to compare it to).

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  45. #123
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    IIRC her gas card was also missing. IMO a person usually does not sometimes put a gas card in their coat, as they might with their phone and credit card.

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  47. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by No More View Post
    IIRC her gas card was also missing. IMO a person usually does not sometimes put a gas card in their coat, as they might with their phone and credit card.
    I think's it's more liklely to occur with a gas card, or at least while pumping gas.

    I've seen women pump gas as:

    They step out of their vehicle without their purse but they have their card in hand. Whether it's a credit / debit / gas card, I do not know but it doesn't matter. They swipe their card in the pump....

    Some put their card in their coat pocket and stand there and wait for the fill to complete. I can not say whether most or some replace the card to their purse immediately or later but I *expect* most replace it immediately unless they are in a hurry.

    Some hold the card and stand and wait for the fill to complete and I *expect* most return the card to their purse when they eventually re-enter their vehicle but the 'in a hurry' scenario also applies.

    Some do not stand and wait for the fill to complete and again I *expect* they return the card to their purse when they re-enter their vehicle to wait for the fill to complete. I *expect* most to replace the card to their purse during the wait simply because they have the time to do so while waiting for the fill to complete.

    Now, with store purchases, most women do have their purse immediately on their person. While at the register they open their purse, remove their card, complete the transaction and replace their card to their purse.
    Last edited by ChuckMaureen; 03-20-2010 at 02:42 PM.

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  49. #125
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    I cannot get it out of my mind that LE searched the spec house- or were at the spec house- for some reason on friday night the 12th, the day before SOMEONE found MC's body-this might need to be listed as a rumor at this point bc LE hasn't confirmed it. Have they?

    I believe LE must have some evidence that MC was at spec house. Unless they had already put together the fact that she was murdered, and they knew that whoever was responsible for her murder had been at speck house for some reason.

    Am I making sense? What could be some possible reasons LE would have to search speck house before finding body. An example that I can think of, speculation, is that there is video of some sort of MC driving that direction the day of the 9th.(or maybe her phone pinged at 5:42pm at the speck house location- only LE knows where the ping came from) Another little side note, I am not sure what JF's hairdresser's location is, but that would probably give enough time to run down and get a haircut at 6pm? Maybe? Just a thought. It would give a perfect alibi. REMEMBER: There is a crawl space under speck house. Someone could be put there for ANY length of time, and no one would know. The access to crawl space in new construction is quite large compared to older structures.

    I also have some information that I have been keeping to myself;

    1) I saw WC in yard at speck house fixing her sign. Unfortunately I do not recall the exact day, but I do believe it was within a few days of MC going missing. Also, the other reason I did not bring this up is bc this is a very normal thing for her to be doing (checking on her listed/built home). It is hard to guage what could be something, or is absolutely nothing. I really hate to bring up WC on any level.........I can't imagine what she could be going through right now.

    2) I talked to someone that said they SAW JF on the Sunday after MC's body was found. He was "stalking" the speck house, during the open house time frame. I believe he may have moved positions at least once from what I understood was said to me. This person KNOWS who JF is, that is a fact.

    I asked a couple threads ago if JF had a grey 4x4 size truck bc I saw one parked right around the corner on that Sunday, however it was in front of a mailbox, and I, again, did not want to make much of a deal out of it bc it very viably could of been someone checking thier mail. The only reason this stuck in my mind was bc there was a hieghtened level of fear in our neighborhood at this time and I was not aware that the neighbor who's mail box that would belong to, has a truck like that. However, people buy new cars all the time....... so probably nothing. Also there was a red, older model car parked in front of the truck on the left side of the road. (However, there is a car like that that belongs to the adjacent home.) It just stuck out to me....

    But here is my small theory on the "stalking" part; I believe LE knew the speck house had SOME relation to MC's disapperance (bc at that point, friday night, that they went to speck house MC was just "missing"). It is my understanding they were also there Saturday and Sunday evening? sometime as well. AND I know for a fact they were there for MANY hours on Monday, and Tuesday. Also I know for a fact that undercover LE watched speck house during this time frame. So, my theory is nothing more than, JF had something to hide or a major concern about something in THAT home. And I do know that LE collected SOME kind of evidence from there- actually I cannot say I KNOW bc I did not PHYSICALLY SEE the evidence, but I SAW (AND heard) about things that would be LE "protocal" if in fact they were to be collecting evidence. (an example of this would be searching home, maybe wearing blue gloves etc.) Then we know that WC accompanied LE on one of the trips to speck. Maybe someone else can recall which day that was- I was thinking it was one of the later days- like Tues? Wed? It is hard for me to recall bc I saw LE there so much- I'd have to go back through old threads to recall specific days.

    Speculation: Ive always thought it is possible that MC and perp may have went to speck house, and maybe that is where the initial "blow" took place. My theory is that MC was hit HARD in the back of the head, and that knocked her out, maybe even killed her (here is where I have taken into consideration the words used by the LE- something to the effect that there maybe another crime scene she was murdered at, after they originally thought it may have been CB?correct me if my memory failed slightly here). I believe this may have been the place that the bag was used and put over her head? To me, this would be a bit easier of a kill for a murderer that was acting alone. Hard blow first, then bag to ensure soffocation.

    Please blow holes in this. One that I can think of off the bat is that if this was the crime scene, then one would think it would have had some similar "yellow tape"? However, i would also imagine that WC would REALLY have something to say about LE letting this scene be public for the simple fact that it would be detrimental to her marketing and selling this speck home which has clearly BROKE her. It is no secret that the home was built to the hilt for TOUR, and has been sitting for a very LONG time. The interest payments alone would take out any possibility of profit, I imagiine. Adding it as a potential murder site would not be good for business.

    But keeping it simple, I speculate that EITHER LE had some evidence that MC went to speck house when she was still missing. OR the only other option in my mind would be, again, LE already knew who murdered her, and LE had some incriminating evidence that the murderer had to have been at speck house at some point. I like that second theory bc that would be a good indication that LE STILL knows who the murder was..........

    There has not been a whole lot of discussion about where MC's body could of been stored, potentially, during the 9th thru the 13th- if she was in fact killed on the 9th and moved to beach on the night of the 12th or early hours of the 13th. I think a crawl space in a HIGH end vacant home would serve the purpose quite well (not alot of those selling right now-or probably being shown-opinion). It would be pretty cold in crawl- there would be no heat and no natural light to produce heat. The kicker on this is that if the murderer kept MC at either location- Speck or CB- he/she would have to be confident that his(her) car would not be seen as "out of the norm". Hypothetically, in this scenerio the murderer may have had to come and go a couple times from the house- like to go get a haircut and then come back for her body at a later date? He/she would have to be confident that thier mode of transport would not raise any nieghboring eyebrows. In otherwords, the nieghbors would think "nothing about he/she being there".

    Just consider ALL of this rumor and speculation unless otherwise noted.

    Now blow me to pieces here fellow sleuthers! Please excuse the spelling- I typed this as fast as I could (and that's not saying much) and I have no spell check- that I know of.

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