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Thread: NV - Washoe County, WhtFem 156UFNV, 25-35, Sheep Flats Hiking Trail, Jul'82 *Graphic*

  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie99909 View Post
    I was also looking at her teeth. They were in very poor shape. I really do wonder if she wasnt a prostitute. Almost all of her teeth have those crowns. They must have been in bad shape. I emailed a dentist I know and asked him for his opinion on the dental work that was performed.
    She only has crowns on two upper teeth (3 and 15), but she has fillings in fifteen other teeth. At first, I thought the dental charts were filled out incorrectly, but I realized that the photos that appear to show crowns on her lower teeth are actually a mirror placed in her mouth to reflect up on her upper teeth.

    And you can also see the borderline of the bonding on her upper left-front tooth (#9).

    But they definitely were poorly cared for. There is a lot of plaque between her teeth and around her gumlines.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 01-22-2011 at 03:00 AM.

  2. #452
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    Is that new information that men's underwear were covering the wounds in her head? If so, so much for the witnesses assuming she was sleeping. :/ I think they simply didn't want to get involved.
    <-- Watched one too many Hanna-Barbera "teenage detective" cartoons as a kid.

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  4. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot View Post
    Is that new information that men's underwear were covering the wounds in her head? If so, so much for the witnesses assuming she was sleeping. :/ I think they simply didn't want to get involved.

    The detective had told this, it was something he didn't want made public. But I have a feeling the coroner released this info without his knowledge.

  5. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie99909 View Post
    The detective had told this, it was something he didn't want made public. But I have a feeling the coroner released this info without his knowledge.
    The underwear is an interesting bit of information. It makes me think that she was with a guy, they were both dressed for wherever she thought they were going, and both had bathers on under their clothes and their underpants in their pockets. So... someone she had a rapport with, someone she trusted, someone she might have had a discussion with about how they were to take their bathers with them.

    No towels found at the scene though. Did he take their towels away with him, or was she assuming there would be towels there?

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  7. #455
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    The only way a scar can be aged is while it is healing after a surgery or injury.* Once a scar is healed, there is no way to date the surgical procedure or the injury that caused it.


    Just got that reply from the coroner about possibly telling when she had given birth based off her body.

  8. #456
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    Those photos really bummed me out. She looks so pitiful.

    The new facts only confuse me more...

    -Why was she barefoot? Its freezing cold with snow on the ground and shes already underdressed, why was she not wearing shoes?

    -Why was her underwear in her pocket? This info makes me feel fairly certain that they were going somewhere they would be getting wet/swimming so she changed into her swim suit and put her clothing back on and her panties in her pocket.

    Given the nature of the highway (it being used as a scenic route to take instead of just the highway) I have to wonder if they werent going on some sort of trip that would involve going somewhere to swim - since we now know that more than likely she was killed closer to morning than night I wonder if the male she was with pulled over there so they could change into their swim suits?

    They could have pulled into that area, gotten out of the car and walked far enough down the path that she would have felt ok changing into her swimsuit without fearing anyone could see them - her removing her clothing/shoes, putting on the swimsuit and jeans/tee only for him to kill her before she could put her shoes back on throwing HIS swim shorts on her face to cover the wounds? If the intent was to change into things suitable for swim it would only make sense he would have to bring his shorts as well so she would think they both would be changing?

    - Id really love to know more about the people that found her - I find it rather confusing how anyone would assume she was sleeping if she was "prone on the ground" with shorts over her head.. Was it the people that found her the ones that said that she looked as though she was sleeping or were they able to question others in the area that didnt report her but admitted seeing her?

    - How long does it take for a c-section scar to be "well healed"? Does the size of the scar (11cm) give any indication of where it was performed? Would there be any difference in size if you got a c-section in the US vs other places? Oddly, its hard to understand how she could be a mother and was never reported missing - she obviously has a child somewhere, why wasnt she noticed missing at some point unless shes from a different area or even outside of the US? If we knew how healed the scar is we would know more about the age of her child?

    That mole on her neck should be quite helpful in being able to identify her - the mole is located in a spot that arent typically covered by a shirt so it could be used to rule out people.


  9. #457
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    I have a couple questions for anyone that knows..

    Whats going on with the back of her neck? It looks.. thicker (cant think of the right word) than normal or something (on our right below her ear)? Was this caused by the injury or from being the position she was in?

    Her collar bone and shoulders make her look like shes really underweight for her frame...

    When they say defects what do they mean? Was there other wounds caused by something more than the gunshot? She seems to have several wounds though they could have been caused by the gunshot or the falling into the ground.

    Are there any vaccinations that are given in the knee?

  10. #458
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    1- there's a plank of wood propping her head up for the picture.

    2- I think it is because a lot of blood drained from her by this point.

    3- gunshot wound.

    4- I don't believe so, maybe an old scar?

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  12. #459
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    I googled the shirt she had on "A blue Buntees Sportswear" t-shirt" and came up with this..

    http://bunty-sportswear.co.uk/ (The name is different but it seems odd that they werent related due to the odd name and the sportswear bit)

    The bunty website says that its the leading supplier for male and female ice skating outfit/gear in the UK - the hair in a bun, weight & badly bruised toe all pointed me towards being in ballet but all of those things could also point to her being an ice skater.

    Event with ice skaters in/around nevada when she was found - some made up of international skaters.

    Jan 2, 1982 Link

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  14. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    Julia's teeth are pretty straight. And her nose is wide and bulbous. SFJD's nose is much narrower.

    Also, Julia is smiling wide enough in the photo that you would see the gold crowns on her upper molars if she was SFJD.
    Unless she got the crowns after those pictures were taken.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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  16. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by punklove View Post
    Those photos really bummed me out. She looks so pitiful.

    The new facts only confuse me more...

    -Why was she barefoot? Its freezing cold with snow on the ground and shes already underdressed, why was she not wearing shoes?

    -Why was her underwear in her pocket? This info makes me feel fairly certain that they were going somewhere they would be getting wet/swimming so she changed into her swim suit and put her clothing back on and her panties in her pocket.

    Given the nature of the highway (it being used as a scenic route to take instead of just the highway) I have to wonder if they werent going on some sort of trip that would involve going somewhere to swim - since we now know that more than likely she was killed closer to morning than night I wonder if the male she was with pulled over there so they could change into their swim suits?

    They could have pulled into that area, gotten out of the car and walked far enough down the path that she would have felt ok changing into her swimsuit without fearing anyone could see them - her removing her clothing/shoes, putting on the swimsuit and jeans/tee only for him to kill her before she could put her shoes back on throwing HIS swim shorts on her face to cover the wounds? If the intent was to change into things suitable for swim it would only make sense he would have to bring his shorts as well so she would think they both would be changing?
    <respectfully snipped by me>

    It bummed me, too. She looks way older than I expected, pushing 40, and like she's had a hard life. I can also see what Carl called the "beerfrau" look, which I could never get from the sketches. Poor woman.

    There may have been snow on the ground, but in mid-July I doubt if it was freezing at midday. Maybe not what SoCal folks would call beach weather, but more than warm enough for swimming I've read that there's a lake farther up that trail that's popular for swimming in summer.

    I think your scenario for what went on just before she was killed is probably pretty accurate. I don't know whether the guy planned to kill her, or possibly something happened that made him decide to right then. Either would fit.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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  18. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by punklove View Post
    I googled the shirt she had on "A blue Buntees Sportswear" t-shirt" and came up with this..

    http://bunty-sportswear.co.uk/ (The name is different but it seems odd that they werent related due to the odd name and the sportswear bit)

    The bunty website says that its the leading supplier for male and female ice skating outfit/gear in the UK - the hair in a bun, weight & badly bruised toe all pointed me towards being in ballet but all of those things could also point to her being an ice skater.

    Event with ice skaters in/around nevada when she was found - some made up of international skaters.

    Jan 2, 1982 Link
    Doesn't one of the big casinos have an ice skating revue?
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  19. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbuff View Post
    Doesn't one of the big casinos have an ice skating revue?
    Maybe at Tahoe, I don't know anything in Reno.

  20. #464
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    I forwarded her dental images and chart to a dentist I know and he is going to review it for me. That way we can get his opinion other than, European dentistry.

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  22. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie99909 View Post
    Maybe at Tahoe, I don't know anything in Reno.
    Okay, found it: at the Eldorado. But it's probably not related because it's only at the holidays -- also don't know whether it dates back to 1982.

    But since it features an international cast, it's possible for her to have come over for the show and then stayed behind. This was in the Iron Curtain days, so defection is a possibility.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  23. #466
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    I just got word from the dentist I know. He writes;



    In reviewing the pictures here is what I see:

    The two upper lateral incisors appear to be congenitally missing.* These would be teeth numbers 7 and 10.* On the upper right the space has been filled in with the other teeth.* On the upper left tooth #11 may have been moved forward into the #10 position and there appears to be a bridge from #10 to #12.* This may have something to do with the gingival recession we see in this area.* The recession seen here and in other areas may be the result of poor brushing technique or brushing with a hard bristle toothbrush.*

    There is no way to positively identify where the dental work was done.* There is nothing that would lead me to the conclusion that this dental work was done in a specific geographic area.* Even if there was something unique about the dental work, dentists can travel.* There are foreign trained dentists in the US just as there are US trained dentists elsewhere.*



    Now while I don't want to argue "this woman is not from Europe we are wasting time", I do want to point out that I always thought it was odd they just jumped and said she was European from the get go. This almost helps reinforce that she could have been worked on by a foreign dentist.

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  25. #467
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    Washoe Sheriff called me and said that because the case is still open they cannot share anything else than what is out there.



    Back to the drawing board.

  26. #468
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    Kind of an aside: Spouse grew up in NYC. When I told him about this woman and how she was found, he told me that "I thought she was sleeping" is code for "I thought she was passed out drunk (or maybe drugs) and I wasn't about to go near her."
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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  28. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie99909 View Post
    I just got word from the dentist I know. He writes;



    In reviewing the pictures here is what I see:

    The two upper lateral incisors appear to be congenitally missing.* These would be teeth numbers 7 and 10.* On the upper right the space has been filled in with the other teeth.* On the upper left tooth #11 may have been moved forward into the #10 position and there appears to be a bridge from #10 to #12.* This may have something to do with the gingival recession we see in this area.*
    According to the dental charts in NamUs, 7 is missing, but 11 is present and has a restoration (i.e., either a filling, an inlay or a veneer), and there is no bridge from 10 - 12. 10 is a natural tooth, and 11 & 12 are restored.

    I'm not saying who's right or wrong though. The charts could be incorrect.

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  30. #470
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    It wouldn't be the first time namus got it muddled.

    Of course who knows what other info they have.

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  32. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    According to the dental charts in NamUs, 7 is missing, but 11 is present and has a restoration (i.e., either a filling, an inlay or a veneer), and there is no bridge from 10 - 12. 10 is a natural tooth, and 11 & 12 are restored.

    I'm not saying who's right or wrong though. The charts could be incorrect.
    I can never make heads or tails of that dental stuff!

    I have a silly question - does the dental work seem as though it was cheaply done or is it the fact that there was no upkeep of the dental work that implies that she was poor? Not sure if that even makes sense but Im trying to figure out if its that she was poor and could only afford minimal dental work or if she simply hadnt been to a dentist in years?

  33. #472
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    The dentist said they were not in poor condition, they were areas of over all recession, but the over all condition was not bad.

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  35. #473
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    I asked him what he thought about possibly being able to discern age from the teeth,


    Periodontal disease can be found in people of all ages.* You might say that the more root surface that is showing then generally the older the person is, hence the term "long in the tooth."* It is not possible to accurately determine a persons age based on any dental info, but an experienced dentist might be able to make an educated guess.

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  37. #474
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    revised reconstruction

    eye shape revised
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Wherever she went, including here, it was against her better judgment."~ Dot Parker

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  39. #475
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    NamUs updated her rule-out listing today. It's a mile long. Probably mostly proposed matches from the automated matching system, as I don't think any human would suggest most of these.

    Warning Postmortem Photo at Link:
    https://identifyus.org/cases/8427

    Edith LaRiviere is not among the names.

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