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  1. #1

    To pass or not to pass, polygraphs are the question

    Does Misty continue to fail polygraphs because she is lying? Or is there another reason she can't pass the test?

    Here's an interesting article: "Does the polygraph test, otherwise known as the lie detector test, work? Melvin Foster may not think so. Back in 1982, after profilers thought a taxi driver might be the Green River Killer, they targeted Foster as a suspect, partly because he drove a taxi. He generously agreed to a polygraph test, which he failed.

    The problem was, he was innocent.

    Meanwhile, over a period of about two to three years, the Green River Killer murdered four dozen or more women near Seattle and Tacoma, Washington." <snipped>

    http://www.articlesfactory.com/artic...s-it-work.html

    I've been looking for links that discuss people who fail polygraphs when they are innocent and why does that happen? I haven't been very successful so far. Yes, I think Misty is lying, but what if? Let's check it out.

  2. #2
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    Seems like NG was just skimming this subject on her show tonight but I would love to hear more from or about people who have failed the test and have been proven to be telling the truth. Does this happen often?
    The depths of which we are able to love will be measured by the depths we are able to love ourselves....et

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  3. #3
    pufnstuf's Avatar
    pufnstuf is offline "Yes, she's emotionally disturbed. She's unbalanced!"
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    One day, polygraphs will be seen to be as unreliable as phrenology.

    Cool video here, in which a skeptic of LD tests is hooked up and tested, using countermeasures to fool the test:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLL3wtgBiFA
    Last edited by KateB; 04-28-2015 at 09:00 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  4. #4
    "Polygraphy has little credibility among scientists.[21][22] Despite claims of 90-95% validity by polygraph advocates, critics maintain that rather than a "test", the method amounts to an inherently unstandardizable interrogation technique whose accuracy cannot be established. A 1997 survey of 421 psychologists estimated the test's average accuracy at about 61%, a little better than chance.[23] Critics also argue that even given high estimates of the polygraph's accuracy a significant number of subjects (e.g. 10% given a 90% accuracy) will appear to be lying, and would unfairly suffer the consequences of "failing" the polygraph."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph
    Last edited by KateB; 04-28-2015 at 09:00 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimster View Post
    "Polygraphy has little credibility among scientists.[21][22] Despite claims of 90-95% validity by polygraph advocates, critics maintain that rather than a "test", the method amounts to an inherently unstandardizable interrogation technique whose accuracy cannot be established. A 1997 survey of 421 psychologists estimated the test's average accuracy at about 61%, a little better than chance.[23] Critics also argue that even given high estimates of the polygraph's accuracy a significant number of subjects (e.g. 10% given a 90% accuracy) will appear to be lying, and would unfairly suffer the consequences of "failing" the polygraph."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph
    Interesting! I think I read that Ted Bundy passed the LDT.

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    It is possible, I guess for Misty to be telling the truth, yet fail. I don't think that is the case.

    I have found a few sites that talk about how unreliable polygraphs are, but they mostly seem to be trying to sell something. I'm sure they are not completely reliable, as they are not admissible in court. Still, I have found a few things that show that a LDT will likely show deceit when it is present.

    http://www.howstuffworks.com/lie-detector.htm

    People tell lies and deceive others for many reasons. Most often, lying is a defense mechanism used to avoid trouble with the law, bosses or authority figures. Sometimes, you can tell when someone's lying, but other times it may not be so easy. Polygraphs, commonly called "lie detectors," are instruments that monitor a person's physiological reactions. These instruments do not, as their nickname suggests, detect lies. They can only detect whether deceptive behavior is being displayed.
    Interesting video at the link above also, actually the whole thing is interesting.
    Last edited by Maven2379; 03-27-2010 at 12:11 AM.

  7. #7
    I can't find anything other than bloggers stating that Bundy passed a poly, but I did find that Gary Ridgway passed it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Ridgway

    The issue here is more about an INNOCENT person NOT passing it, however. I'm just not finding much information out there about such cases, only the one I cited regarding Melvin Foster.
    Last edited by KateB; 04-28-2015 at 09:00 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  8. #8
    pufnstuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimster View Post
    I can't find anything other than bloggers stating that Bundy passed a poly, but I did find that Gary Ridgway passed it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Ridgway

    The issue here is more about an INNOCENT person NOT passing it, however. I'm just not finding much information out there about such cases, only the one I cited regarding Melvin Foster.
    I think that Gacy did, too, but I can't find any substantial link saying so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimster View Post
    I can't find anything other than bloggers stating that Bundy passed a poly, but I did find that Gary Ridgway passed it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Ridgway

    The issue here is more about an INNOCENT person NOT passing it, however. I'm just not finding much information out there about such cases, only the one I cited regarding Melvin Foster.

    Would a pathological liar pass a poly? I'm not sure, since I'm beginning to think Misty might be one.

  10. #10
    pufnstuf's Avatar
    pufnstuf is offline "Yes, she's emotionally disturbed. She's unbalanced!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimster View Post
    I can't find anything other than bloggers stating that Bundy passed a poly, but I did find that Gary Ridgway passed it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Ridgway

    The issue here is more about an INNOCENT person NOT passing it, however. I'm just not finding much information out there about such cases, only the one I cited regarding Melvin Foster.
    Here's one story of an innocent person being held for 22 YEARS (!!!), who failed the polygraph, but then DNA exonerated him.

    https://antipolygraph.org/blog/?p=138

    Search DNA and polygraph on google. You'll get more results.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maryann123 View Post
    Would a pathological liar pass a poly? I'm not sure, since I'm beginning to think Misty might be one.
    I do believe that a pathological liar could pass a poly.

    I have no scientific data to back this up, but I do have a cousin who I grew up with, he is a pathological liar. There are lies that he has told since we were in kindergarten together, and still tells the same lies to this day. I know he's lying, he knows that I know he's lying, yet he states these lies as fact. I think he's told the story so much he believes it's the truth. I think if he took a LDT about the lie, he would pass.

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    pufnstuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maryann123 View Post
    Would a pathological liar pass a poly? I'm not sure, since I'm beginning to think Misty might be one.
    I think so, and sociopaths as well!

  13. #13
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    Thing is, it's really hard to find any peer-reviewed, substantial scholarship about polygraphs, because most people in the scientific field give them no credence.

    So being a scientist or behavioralist and writing a journal article about the fallacy of polygraphs would earn a big, "Yeah, we already knew that" from peers.

  14. #14
    pufnstuf's Avatar
    pufnstuf is offline "Yes, she's emotionally disturbed. She's unbalanced!"
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    By the way, great thread, Kimster!

  15. #15
    It's interesting when you search the internet and how much of it is how to beat the polygraph! Thank you for adding DNA to the search! That really helped!

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