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Thread: 27 March 2010: Did Josh purchase a cutting torch from Air Gas on 7 Dec 2009?

  1. #1

    27 March 2010: Did Josh purchase a cutting torch from Air Gas on 7 Dec 2009?

    Did Josh Powell purchase a cutting torch from Air Gas during the early AM of Monday, December 7, 2009?

    Someone claimed, in a comment left on a newspaper article appearing in a major Salt Lake City newspaper about the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell, Josh Powell purchased a cutting torch early in the morning on Monday, December 7, 2009, from a Salt Lake City business called Air Gas; and that an Air Gas employee recognized Josh Powell, reported the purchase to West Valley City Police Department and was able to provide a receipt of said purchase.

    The cutting torch purchase was discussed in length in this thread: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95206"]Was Josh Seen Buying A LARGE Amount of Shrink Wrap? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


    I would like to discuss and investigate this claim further. I would appreciate it if someone who lives in the Salt Lake City area would let us know the exact address and phone number of this store. It would also be nice if someone would go to the store and take photos of the inside so we can get an idea of what it looks like.

    Once we have established the location and phone number of the store as being accurate, I will telephone them to learn what their hours are as well as ask to speak to the manager about the Josh Powell purchase.

    The photos can be e-mailed to me at joshpowellbankruptcy@gmail.com and I will upload them to my joshpowellbankruptcy photobucket account then embed them as a comment here.
    Last edited by PickieChickie; 03-27-2010 at 01:06 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Pickiechicke, I went back to the shrink wrap thread as suggested, and it was you who first mentions the purchase of a cutting torch in that thread, in post #29, but you are referring back to a previous mention (but no link). In this post the cutting torch purchase is BEFORE Susan's disappearance.

    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    It was reported JP purchased a cutting torch shortly before Susan disappeared. I just don't understand how using a torch would cause both hands to burn as it doesn't take both to hold a torch. One would think he would have one hand in his pocket if he didn't have gloves and was outside in subfreezing temperatures when using it, either to shrink the plastic wrap or cut up open a grate to an abandoned, shut up mine. Unfortunately, we can't ask Tim Peterson if both JP's hands were equally wind burnt or if both sides of his hands were red. Also, the red hands appeared after he rented the car.

    One would think he would have used a hair drier if he needed heat to shrink the wrap and was inside the house.

    I still wonder if he really brought a generator with him or if he just said that. Or, was the "I needed to test it out" an excuse he came up with, upon returning to a large crowd of curious people, to explain why he had it in the back of his van. Unless he needed it to plug the hair drier into! (That would seem a bit far fetched if you ask me ............ because I would think, like I pointed out, the shrinking would have been done at home!)

    Unless he didn't want to use the shrink wrap at home because he wanted out of there ASAP?

    This is all so puzzling!



    Then it is mentioned again by Grayjay in Post #36, but now the date has been moved to 7th December. Grayjay posts a clip from the comment page of an news article:

    http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148...&comments=true

    QUOTE:

    Marc H.
    2:20pm - Sun Jan 31st, 2010
    @Big Dog Mom - Funny you should mention mine shaft. Susan dissapeared shortly after the nutty putty situation. An aquaintance of mine works at air gas in SLC. Josh purchased a cutting torch on his credit card on the Monday morning he said he was camping. The police have a copy of the receipt and can prove he lied about the camping trip. Josh's friend made note to the media that Josh had wind burned hands on Tuesday. That was not wind burn but torch burn from the cutting torch. Should someone be looking in old sealed off mine shafts for Susan? The cutting torch would have been needed to access the sealed shafts. Josh could be pretty sure these sealed off shafts would not be checked. Ever.



    You mention it again in Post #54.

    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    This was reported to me by someone who lives in WVC area who spoke with the person JP bought the cutting torch from. This person who reported this to me is a reliable source and I would bet my house that JP did indeed buy the cutting torch. This was only learned about three weeks ago and has been reported to the police.

    At first, the person who informed me of this told me in confidence but then later posted about it on a Facebook group discussion about JP's red hands.

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  5. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartleby View Post
    Pickiechicke, I went back to the shrink wrap thread as suggested, and it was you who first mentions the purchase of a cutting torch in that thread, in post #29, but you are referring back to a previous mention (but no link). In this post the cutting torch purchase is BEFORE Susan's disappearance.
    At the time I learned of the cutting torch, which was through a discussion on Facebook with Linda Osborne, the same individual who discovered the suspicious cement strip, it was not made clear to me that Josh had purchased it on Monday, December 7, 2009.

    I assumed it was a prior purchase because Linda was really curious about the big green gas tanks seen in the moving photos posted in news articles.

    At the time I posted the comments here which suggest the purchase was made prior to Susan's disappearance, I was under the impression that the green tanks were purchased at the same time; that perhaps he purchased a used torch and tanks through a friend or Craig's list.

    I was still attempting to learn more about the tanks, torch, time of purchase, etc.

    It was after my post you quoted that I learned the purchase was made on Monday morning, December 7, 2009 and through the other post you just quoted.

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  7. #4
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    There are only two Airgas outlets in SLC, located at:


    Airgas Dry Ice
    1211 South Pioneer Road,
    Salt Lake City, UT 84104

    and


    Airgas Intermountain
    3415 South 700 West,
    Salt Lake City, UT 84119-4140


    The first only sells ice, while the second has:

    Fill Plant
    Medical Branch
    Equipment Rental
    Specialty Gas Lab - Regional
    Welder Repair
    Branch

    so it's the second one we're interested in.

    If I were starting at this address, and wanted to hide a body asap, I'd take the I80 east and then head south to route 40, which runs between the Uinta and Wasatch National Forests, looking to stop asap and dump that body.

    Of course, if we take the cutting torch purchase as true, Josh had probably already dumped the body somewhere, then came back to SLC to get the cutting torch.


    I can think of no innocent reason for Josh to buy a cutting torch when he's supposed to be on a camping trip with Susan's boys, but of course really supposed to be getting ready to start a fresh week at the office.
    Last edited by Bartleby; 03-27-2010 at 01:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartleby View Post

    I can think of no innocent reason for Josh to buy a cutting torch when he's supposed to be on a camping trip with Susan's boys, but of course really supposed to be getting ready to start a fresh week at the office.
    Exactly, and if the purchase were on that date and time and made by a credit card, that is a pretty rock solid contradiction of Josh's story, so I don't know why he hasn't been arrested yet (if this rumor is true)?? The only thing I can think of is that LE are hoping Josh slips and says something to someone that gives away Susan's location while he is still "free". Meanwhile they're risking his flight to Canada and possibly something terrible happening to the boys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayO View Post
    Exactly, and if the purchase were on that date and time and made by a credit card, that is a pretty rock solid contradiction of Josh's story, so I don't know why he hasn't been arrested yet (if this rumor is true)?? The only thing I can think of is that LE are hoping Josh slips and says something to someone that gives away Susan's location while he is still "free". Meanwhile they're risking his flight to Canada and possibly something terrible happening to the boys.
    One of the things professionals might have suspected right away because of his mental state that first day when they interviewed him, is that he really can't say exactly where he put her. He comes across as someone who can bury things very deeply.

    They need a solid case, and they very well may not expect him to ever be able to say what he has done. To me he's not acting like an adult by not cooperating with LE, but rather like a three year old. Stubborn, hurt, pouting, and damaged. Very damaged. Guilty would be our assessment, not his, it seems. Psychopaths are incapable of actually feeling guilt, as I understand it.

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  13. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RayO View Post
    Exactly, and if the purchase were on that date and time and made by a credit card, that is a pretty rock solid contradiction of Josh's story, so I don't know why he hasn't been arrested yet (if this rumor is true)?? The only thing I can think of is that LE are hoping Josh slips and says something to someone that gives away Susan's location while he is still "free". Meanwhile they're risking his flight to Canada and possibly something terrible happening to the boys.
    I would think the Salt Lake Tribune, Deseret or examiner.com would have chased that story down. After all, it wouldn't take much effort to verify the claim if the store owner, manager or an employee is willing to talk.

    So, we are left to wonder if he did buy the cutting torch very early on Monday, December 7, 2009; which brings me to the claim examiner.com made about someone asking the reporter something the the effect of: "Would it be worth $1000.00 if someone were to tell you Josh Powell was in West Valley City (or) Salt Lake City at 5:00 AM on Monday, December 7, 2009?"

    Since Wayne Hamberg, a very verbal participant with the Facebook group "susan powell part 2" who met Josh at a computer group, claimed on the wall of susan powell part 2 that examiner.com had contacted him requesting an interview, and since an article featuring such an interview was never published, one has to wonder if Josh Powell showed up at Wayne Hamberg's house at 5:00 AM then headed over to Air Gas when they opened at 7:00 AM!
    Last edited by PickieChickie; 03-29-2010 at 12:34 AM.

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    A quick look at Sears.com suggests you can get a cutting torch for $300, but that doesn't include the gas bottles required to fuel the thing, and it may not be capable of cutting through, say the bars covering a mineshaft, as supplied.

    I don't know about you, but I'm not in the habit of having $300 sitting around the house or my wallet in cash. I doubt Josh did either, so he would either have used a card, or withdrawn the cash from the bank first. Either would be traceable.

    As we've heard nothing about this supposed purchase except that one comment on a newspaper thread, I'm inclined to believe it was either BS, or a case of mistaken identity which has been followed up by LE and dismissed.

    If there was solid proof that Josh bought this item at the time and place specified, i.e. bank records of the purchase, till receipts relating to Josh's accounts at the store, or video of Josh making the purchase, then I can't see why LE would not have brought him in for further questioning. What more proof would they need that he has been lying about his movements?

    If there is someone in SLC or WVC who has some proof of Josh's movements between 6-7th December, but is holding out for a better reward to be offered, I'll be mightily unimpressed with them.
    Last edited by Bartleby; 03-29-2010 at 10:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartleby View Post
    If there is someone in SLC or WVC who has some proof of Josh's movements between 6-7th December, but is holding out for a better reward to be offered, I'll be mightily unimpressed with them.
    Me too, and I wonder what his word would be worth later. Maybe the better reward is to protect himself from some sort of perceived danger. I hope investigators jumped all over this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartleby View Post
    A quick look at Sears.com suggests you can get a cutting torch for $300, but that doesn't include the gas bottles required to fuel the thing, and it may not be capable of cutting through, say the bars covering a mineshaft, as supplied.

    I don't know about you, but I'm not in the habit of having $300 sitting around the house or my wallet in cash. I doubt Josh did either, so he would either have used a card, or withdrawn the cash from the bank first. Either would be traceable.

    As we've heard nothing about this supposed purchase except that one comment on a newspaper thread, I'm inclined to believe it was either BS, or a case of mistaken identity which has been followed up by LE and dismissed.

    If there was solid proof that Josh bought this item at the time and place specified, i.e. bank records of the purchase, till receipts relating to Josh's accounts at the store, or video of Josh making the purchase, then I can't see why LE would not have brought him in for further questioning. What more proof would they need that he has been lying about his movements?

    If there is someone in SLC or WVC who has some proof of Josh's movements between 6-7th December, but is holding out for a better reward to be offered, I'll be mightily unimpressed with them.
    I think it is entirely possible that the police have verified the claim and just haven't let the general public know about the card in their pocket. If the claim is true, then it can be traced and definitely is a big contridiction to the story Josh told. I don't think the police want to focus on what they DO have against him right now. Not at least in the public eye. And sadly enough, lying isn't a crime. So I don't know that they could arrest Josh for "just" a discrepancy in his timeline. JMO

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  21. #11
    I'm looking at the Air Gas web site and there are a lot of items for sale. The person who reported Josh buying a cutting torch did not specify exactly what he purchased if we want to get technical. For all we know he bought a cutting torch, not the tanks that are needed to operate it, just the attachment that goes onto the end of the hose.

    Did Josh take the tanks, seen in the garage news footage recorded on moving day by a TV station videographer, in the van when he drove to dispose of Susan but the torch itself was malfunctioning resulting in a part purchase only (or) did Josh buy this self-igniting torch available for purchase at the Air Gas web site?


    Lenox® Self-Igniting Hand Torch Kit (Includes Torch, 2 MAPP® Cylinders And Box: $149.00)


    SOURCE: http://airgas.com/browse/product.asp...&WT.svl=151520
    Last edited by PickieChickie; 03-29-2010 at 03:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    I'm looking at the Air Gas web site and there are a lot of items for sale. The person who reported Josh buying a cutting torch did not specify exactly what he purchased if we want to get technical. For all we know he bought a cutting torch, not the tanks that are needed to operate it, just the attachment that goes onto the end of the hose.

    Did Josh take the tanks, seen in the garage news footage recorded on moving day by a TV station videographer, in the van when he drove to dispose of Susan but the torch itself was malfunctioning resulting in a part purchase only (or) did Josh buy this self-igniting torch available for purchase at the Air Gas web site?


    Lenox® Self-Igniting Hand Torch Kit (Includes Torch, 2 MAPP® Cylinders And Box: $149.00)


    SOURCE: http://airgas.com/browse/product.asp...&WT.svl=151520

    Depending on what he wanted to use the equipment for, MAPP might not be a good choice.

    According to this site, MAPP is almost as hot as acetylene, is useful for cutting, but is not well suited for welding.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxy-fue...ng_and_cutting

    As others point out you can buy the torches and associated hardware elsewhere, but only places like Air Gas have the gas to make a really hot flame, like acetylene.

    I believe if you transport acetylene and oxy tanks you are supposed to have tie-downs and other safety equip for your vehicle.

    Edited to add:
    Info on transportation:
    http://www.praxair.com/praxair.nsf/7...4?opendocument
    Last edited by RayO; 03-29-2010 at 04:29 PM.

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  25. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayjay View Post
    Me too, and I wonder what his word would be worth later. Maybe the better reward is to protect himself from some sort of perceived danger. I hope investigators jumped all over this.
    IIRC, I believe I read he was called in by LE after that for an interview.

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  27. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by hollyblue View Post
    IIRC, I believe I read he was called in by LE after that for an interview.
    On Monday, February 1, 2010, Wayne Hamberg wrote, on the wall of the Facebook group "susan powell part 2, that he went to Josh Powell's home where he visited with Josh for a couple hours.

    Shortly after Wayne posted the above, a detective from the West Valley City Police Department called, requesting that Wayne be down at headquarters the following morning at 8:30 AM.

    When Wayne returned, he posted on the wall he was infuriated because he was accused of being the Susan Powell aka Diana Thomson aka Don Johnson Facebook troll who was harassing the various Susan Powell Facebook groups, even going as far as to post obscene content to the walls and sport a vagina avatar. (Whether the detective accused Wayne is not clear. However, Wayne made it very clear someone had filed a police report against him naming him as the suspect. Wayne vowed to file some sort of document with the court to force the WVC PD to show him the reports and that he was going to take legal action against the person who made the report.)

    Wayne also, and I can't recall the exact date, but right around that time, was "bragging" examiner.com and I believe it was People Magazine had contacted him requesting an interview. Yet, no such interviews appeared in either publication.
    Last edited by PickieChickie; 03-30-2010 at 02:08 AM.

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    Josh sure knows how to pick his friends. This guy is starting to sound like quite a piece of work. It also sounds like WVCPD didn't exactly kiss his butt and make him feel loved.
    Last edited by grayjay; 03-30-2010 at 04:51 PM. Reason: typo

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    Hamberg is no stranger to the comment sections of the media either, although, he never did meet Susan.

    Quite the attention seeker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    Wayne also, and I can't recall the exact date, but right around that time, was "bragging" examiner.com and I believe it was People Magazine had contacted him requesting an interview. Yet, no such interviews appeared in either publication.
    Here are some links:

    http://www.people.com/people/article...332053,00.html

    http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2...-still-missing
    Last edited by Varonika; 03-31-2010 at 01:30 PM.

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    So are you posting these to indicate that WH was interviewed by Examiner? Because I don't get that either of these is an interview. No questions. No hard questions, and no details, IMO.

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  37. #19
    Wayne Hamberg made the statement on or around February 1, 2010, on the wall of the Facebook group "susan powell part 2", that examiner.com and I believe People magazine had just called him requesting an interview.

    The articles linked to above were posted to the Internet prior to Wayne's claim and contain excerpts/quotes from a newspaper article appearing on the Internet entitled "Friend of Josh Powell speaks out in support" which was written by Pat Reavy and appeared in the Desert News, a Salt Lake City based newspaper, on December 18, 2019, eleven (11) days after Susan Cox Powell disappeared.

    Wayne Hamberg stated two publications had recently contacted him wanting to interview him. He was not speaking of the past.

    Unfortunately, his posts were deleted from the wall of the Facebook group "susan powell part 2" either by the group's creator and administrator, Leslie Bleak, or by Wayne Hamberg himself; which is most unfortunate.

    PAT REAVY'S ARTICLE - Friend Speaks out in support of Josh Powell - December 18, 2010: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...rt-of-Pow.html

    Once a reporter writes an article and publishes it on the web, countless bloggers and newspaper editors/reporters, publish a similar article in which they are supposed to quote their source. Many of the articles are identical while others include the author's opinions, further comments or research or are simply paraphrased.

    Please note that People Magazine and examiner.com simply quoted the information from Pat Reavy's article and that neither of the reporters interviewed Wayne Hamberg at all!
    Last edited by PickieChickie; 03-31-2010 at 03:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grayjay View Post
    So are you posting these to indicate that WH was interviewed by Examiner?
    No...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varonika View Post
    No...
    Um, OK. Interesting...

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    Would someone mind listing the various things a 'cutting torch' could be used for in Josh's area to hide a body?

    I can only think of 3, cutting a lock, a chain or a hole in something made of metal.

    It does make sense the heat from a cutting torch and possible sparks, would cause his hands to turn red and or be burned.
    Last edited by Mysterylover; 03-31-2010 at 05:20 PM.

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    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...What I write here, are my theories, speculation, opinions & deductive reasoning...not to be taken as 'fact'..

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  45. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterylover View Post
    Would someone mind listing the various things a 'cutting torch' could be used for in Josh's area to hide a body?

    I can only think of 3, cutting a lock, a chain or a hole in something made of metal.

    It does make sense the heat from a cutting torch and possible sparks, would cause his hands to turn red and or be burned.
    Josh had the burns after he returned from renting the car several days after Susan disappeared.

    Possible uses for a cutting torch:

    Cutting off a lock
    Cutting through a chain
    Cutting through an iron grate covering a mine shaft
    Melting snow or ice
    Burning Susan's body to remove hair, fingerprints, scars, birth marks
    Making S'moures
    Welding or sodering
    Burning evidence
    Starting a camp fire
    Melting away foot prints
    Distorting fingerprints
    Melting a hole in a frozen body of water

    I'll add to this if I think of more

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