1225 users online (233 members and 992 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 127
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Heartland USA
    Posts
    592

    2010.04.02 *SPECIFIC* Caylee's Position Inside Bags

    Based on the location of the various remains, I was left with the impression that Caylee's body was placed in the laundry bag head first. There was hair and tape still on the skull, and the shirt was still in the bag, suggesting to me these were protected for a period of time. Dr. G discussed animal activity, while the body was still intact, and the shorts were found outside the bag. The laundry bag isn't torn.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Culpeper, Virginia
    Posts
    3,198
    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    Based on the location of the various remains, I was left with the impression that Caylee's body was placed in the laundry bag head first. There was hair and tape still on the skull, and the shirt was still in the bag, suggesting to me these were protected for a period of time. Dr. G discussed animal activity, while the body was still intact, and the shorts were found outside the bag. The laundry bag isn't torn.
    I believe it has also been noted in other threads that Caylee may have been imersed head-down into the standing water, allowing animals to access the trunk of her body first. If KC placed the bag in the woods (rather than throwing it in from the street, don't think she could have) she would most likely have held the handles and set it or slightly lobbed it and Caylee would have remained head down in the bag. I would not think KC dumped her out of the bag in any manner, and it just would not make sense that she was feet down in the bag based on animal activity, dispersion of bones, etc.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8,800
    I am curious if Caylee was placed head down why the skull would be the thing on top to fall out when Kronk first came upon the remains. Although it would be plausible that animal activity would be pulling her little body up out of the bag by her lower extremities, leaving the skull in or near the bag

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8,800
    ok, i got inspired to try this, please don't beat me up - my first time ever drawing, copy & paste to this forum . . .
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    here and there
    Posts
    7,521
    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    I am curious if Caylee was placed head down why the skull would be the thing on top to fall out when Kronk first came upon the remains. Although it would be plausible that animal activity would be pulling her little body up out of the bag by her lower extremities, leaving the skull in or near the bag
    I no longer have my notes from that time (that computer died) but I thought Det Yuri said that the skull hadn't actually fallen, it was still in place when LE got there?

    I thought after reading Yuri's comments that possibly Kronk saw what he saw, then out of shock or fright his imagination took over for just a second and in his mind he thought the skull fell out towards him.

    Maybe because it was in such an advanced state of decomposition (sorry) the local wildlife (which would have been relatively tame in the middle of a housing tract) or small, didn't cause as much damage as one would normally expect. Maybe much of that damage was caused by vermin.

    Then being under water for months, the "decomposition event" may have concluded under water, the placement was such that everything just settled.

    You know it is very "weird" but with all the indignities Caylee was subjected to at her mothers hands, someone (in LE I think) thought the odor still being sooo strong in that car months after it was stored in the LE storage/lab was Caylee saying don't forget me, "I'm still out there".

    Her outline in the car clearly visible.

    Then finding her remains although underwater for months still having the lower jaw attached by hair and tape.

    I used to like reading "eerie stories" as a kid, but never ever bought into any of it. It surely is true, truth is stranger than fiction. No one (in their right mind) could have made up the story of Caylee and what the clues left behind say about what happened.
    Thank you my WS family for everything you do, everyday. You are loved and appreciated.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    ~Emma Leigh Barker~
    09/02/07~03/18/09
    ~R.I.P.~


    Justice For Emma
    Stacey Barker - Guilty - Murder 1 - 5/24/11
    25 to LiFE - Sentenced 6/17/11


    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    jmho as always

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    here and there
    Posts
    7,521
    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    ok, i got inspired to try this, please don't beat me up - my first time ever drawing, copy & paste to this forum . . .
    Thank you, you did great.... if anyone wants to beat on you, I'll take care of them for you... and I'm in the mood ....

    That just makes me weep.
    Thank you my WS family for everything you do, everyday. You are loved and appreciated.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    ~Emma Leigh Barker~
    09/02/07~03/18/09
    ~R.I.P.~


    Justice For Emma
    Stacey Barker - Guilty - Murder 1 - 5/24/11
    25 to LiFE - Sentenced 6/17/11


    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    jmho as always

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8,800
    Quote Originally Posted by LCoastMom View Post
    Thank you, you did great.... if anyone wants to beat on you, I'll take care of them for you... and I'm in the mood ....

    That just makes me weep.
    Thanks for having my back LCM! I apologise for making you cry. This is a really tough subject and I respect all of the brilliant minds who are willing to throw out their theories and others chiming in with feedback. Of course my outline is contrary to her being placed in the bag head first, but this was the first image that came to me. I wonder if the stains on the bag line up with the stains in the trunk. I seriously doubt it, as the bags would contain most of the fluids and we would be seeing an image of fluid spillage in a big puddle, imo. I know there are pics that LE has which depict the exact position the bag was found in, that have not been released. How long does the State get to keep all evidence like that away from the defense (public only?) under the sunshine laws?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    here and there
    Posts
    7,521
    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    Thanks for having my back LCM! I apologise for making you cry. This is a really tough subject and I respect all of the brilliant minds who are willing to throw out their theories and others chiming in with feedback. Of course my outline is contrary to her being placed in the bag head first, but this was the first image that came to me. I wonder if the stains on the bag line up with the stains in the trunk. I seriously doubt it, as the bags would contain most of the fluids and we would be seeing an image of fluid spillage in a big puddle, imo. I know there are pics that LE has which depict the exact position the bag was found in, that have not been released. How long does the State get to keep all evidence like that away from the defense (public only?) under the sunshine laws?
    I don't know if they are ever going to release some of the pictures, I believe it was discussed in a hearing way back when.

    If (and sorry I might be remembering wrong) all Kronk did was look into the bag and see the skull the way had been suggested I don't think Caylee was in head first. At least not if she was put in before decomp was in full swing.

    My feeling is she slid the tote up the same way you would put a child into a bunting-bag. if kc carried that bag anywhere with Caylee slid in head first, her neck still being a weak spot would have been bent or shifted to the side. IMO she would not have stayed so perfectly placed in the fetal position.

    Also because of the humidity and heat, this event would have happened fairly quickly; if Caylee was slid into the bag bottom/feet first (curled up) then carried by the top of the bag and tossed like a girl- (meaning without a lot of energy) she landed more or less in the position found heads up - bottom down, gravity would have brought decomposing tissue down as it shed which would have added to the likely hood of the skull being found so intact.

    Sorry if this is "old news" or not the generally accepted thought on the matter I have been trying hard not to think of Caylee in this condition, but the amazing reconstruction on these pictures has dragged me back. I could not see an image some saw on the trunk liner until WS geniuses went to work on them.

    The laundry bag on the other hand I saw exactly the way you depicted and I see how it sits over the stain in the trunk perfectly.

    Re release of evidence

    In another case I read where the defense was trying to see the most damning evidence, they offered what they had (which amounted to squat) in exchange for the states evidence.

    The DA replied "I'm not ready to hand that over yet and (to the judge) I know I don't have to (Honest to goodness that was a tongue out nah-nah moment if I ever heard one). The judge just nodded, didn't give a time frame.

    Our legal eagles can give you a better answer on that, there must be a time frame for exchange of all evidence in relation to trial I would assume. It's been interesting following this since the beginning as info was released a morsel at a time, just to keep the defense guessing how bad it was going to get... I don't think JB saw most of this coming (especially knowing the remains sat for 6 mos.) The state (and all they employ) have done an amazing job, seeing this information I see how they had DP on the table before Caylee was found. Finding the remains just added nails to the coffin.
    Thank you my WS family for everything you do, everyday. You are loved and appreciated.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    ~Emma Leigh Barker~
    09/02/07~03/18/09
    ~R.I.P.~


    Justice For Emma
    Stacey Barker - Guilty - Murder 1 - 5/24/11
    25 to LiFE - Sentenced 6/17/11


    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    jmho as always

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    919
    If Caylee was put in the laundry bag head first, are we to surmise that she was placed in the garbage bags head first as well? Because why would you bag something, feet first, and then flip it upside down for the top of the garbage bag to leak into the bottom if the laundry bag. Sorry I'm just trying to better understand.

    I always thought feet first. Head first in either canvas or laundry bag doesn't make sense to me. But none of this tragedy makes sense to me.

    ETA: We can't take into account how the blanket factored into these items either.
    Last edited by Reagan; 03-31-2010 at 03:49 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Seattle area
    Posts
    142
    Quote Originally Posted by ynotdivein View Post
    Going out on a limb here. Have never posted an image or edited an image. Holding breath and fingers crossed.... if this comes through I would appreciate feedback, though please stick to the facts and hold your constructive criticism on the quality of my artwork for sometime when my ego is not so fragile?

    Hoping this does not blow anyone's margins:
    Nice job outlining what you see... even though it is opposite of what I'm seeing, LOL!

    It looks to me like the side of the laundry bag facing us would correspond to the contours of her back, meaning she would be facing away from us in the fetal position.

    The main reason I keep seeing it that way (and I do think that this canvas bag exactly corresponds to the stain sadly) is because of the position of where poor Caylee's feet would be in, the bag...

    I'm no good at photoshop, but it really looks like her bottom is positioned closest to us and her legs are pointed away from us, and I can make out where each individual leg and even feet were situated/stuffed in the bottom (giving the flexed appearance that she's on the balls of her feet)...

    Course, that's all MOO - but curious if anyone else sees the orientation in the canvas bag the way I do??? I agree that these images together really have strong impact and makes my heart break for that poor baby all over again...



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Seattle area
    Posts
    142
    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    ok, i got inspired to try this, please don't beat me up - my first time ever drawing, copy & paste to this forum . . .
    Yes! That's very close to what I keep seeing... Good work!!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    7,763
    Quote Originally Posted by quadlatte View Post
    Nice job outlining what you see... even though it is opposite of what I'm seeing, LOL!

    It looks to me like the side of the laundry bag facing us would correspond to the contours of her back, meaning she would be facing away from us in the fetal position.

    The main reason I keep seeing it that way (and I do think that this canvas bag exactly corresponds to the stain sadly) is because of the position of where poor Caylee's feet would be in, the bag...

    I'm no good at photoshop, but it really looks like her bottom is positioned closest to us and her legs are pointed away from us, and I can make out where each individual leg and even feet were situated/stuffed in the bottom (giving the flexed appearance that she's on the balls of her feet)...

    Course, that's all MOO - but curious if anyone else sees the orientation in the canvas bag the way I do??? I agree that these images together really have strong impact and makes my heart break for that poor baby all over again...

    I think you're seeing it the same way I'm seeing it, but I really would need an overlay of the trunk stain over the laundry bag (or the other way around) to be sure. We know the bag is 24 inches high, and the trunk photo shows the ruler next to the stain, so at least there's some rough scale to work with if anyone has the PhotoShop skills.

    "It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8,800
    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    I think you're seeing it the same way I'm seeing it, but I really would need an overlay of the trunk stain over the laundry bag (or the other way around) to be sure. We know the bag is 24 inches high, and the trunk photo shows the ruler next to the stain, so at least there's some rough scale to work with if anyone has the PhotoShop skills.
    I agree! Anybody wanna try? I have used up my photo shop skills for the day, I wouldn't want to learn too much new all at once (something old falls out each time something new comes in and I don't want to loose all of my childhood in one fell swoop)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8,800
    quadlatte, is this more like what you were seeing?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    CT/NC
    Posts
    21,160
    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    quadlatte, is this more like what you were seeing?
    Wow. Just Wow

Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 64
    Last Post: 10-31-2010, 12:27 PM
  2. Replies: 277
    Last Post: 03-27-2010, 11:07 AM

Tags for this Thread