New Advanced DNA testing

TeaTime · Jan 16, 2017

icedtea4me said:
And you're another one who thinks it's wise to claim that the pajama pants belonged to Burke when they were never collected nor tested. I can't say that this surprises me either.

I didn't say they were BR's and putting your spin on what I wrote doesn't get us very far at all. The crime scene techs and detectives noticed the PJ bottoms that were too big for JBR and apparently the right size for a boy BR's age and build. I didn't invent this theory, it was invented for me by LE.

I don't know that these were or were not collected as evidence. But, I would love to know your theory as to whom the too large PJ bottoms with the feces in them belonged. Now keep in mind that no one would have even considered that they were BR's had they been adult PJ bottoms and they were not JBR's. So, of the 4 people in the house that night who could have defecated in their PJ bottoms and left them in JBR's room, if they aren't adult PJ bottoms and they aren't JBR's PJ bottoms, just whose might they be?

Deductive reasoning is still an investigative tool, correct?

icedtea4me · Jan 17, 2017

TeaTime said:
I didn't say they were BR's and putting your spin on what I wrote doesn't get us very far at all. The crime scene techs and detectives noticed the PJ bottoms that were too big for JBR and apparently the right size for a boy BR's age and build. I didn't invent this theory, it was invented for me by LE.

I don't know that these were or were not collected as evidence. But, I would love to know your theory as to whom the too large PJ bottoms with the feces in them belonged. Now keep in mind that no one would have even considered that they were BR's had they been adult PJ bottoms and they were not JBR's. So, of the 4 people in the house that night who could have defecated in their PJ bottoms and left them in JBR's room, if they aren't adult PJ bottoms and they aren't JBR's PJ bottoms, just whose might they be?

Deductive reasoning is still an investigative tool, correct?

According to Kolar in his ama, he said he didn't see that the pajama pants nor the candy box were collected. Evidence that isn't collected and tested certainly wouldn't be allowed as evidence in a trial. Therefore, the logical thing to do would be to dismiss these two items.

buggiegirl · Jan 17, 2017

icedtea4me said:
And you're another one who thinks it's wise to claim that the pajama pants belonged to Burke when they were never collected nor tested. I can't say that this surprises me either.

I am pretty sure we are not held to the laws of evidence collection while speculating on the internet. Odds are they were Burke's, so that's what we are going with.

We are not a jury, we can still discuss and debate things that might not have made it into a trial. Like Burke being a suspect at all!

Userid · Jan 17, 2017

icedtea4me said:
So, you do think it's wise for you to claim that the pajama pants belonged to Burke when they were never collected nor tested. I can't say that this surprises me.

I sorta see where you're coming from with this in the sense that, we have no idea what was commonplace or not when it comes to JBR's sleepwear. Meaning, would it really be completely out of the realm of possibility for a child to wear long-johns that were a little bit big to bed? Was this pair of long-johns new, and perhaps bought for JBR in a slightly bigger size because PR knew they would shrink in the laundry (my mom did this when I was young, with all my clothes)? Long-johns especially would need to be washed frequently, especially considering that JBR had a bed-wetting problem.

But either way, I still think you're technically right: these pajama bottoms were never, definitively, identified as belonging to BR. They just as easily could have belonged to JBR in my opinion.

ZoriahNZ · Jan 17, 2017

I can see PR buying slightly bigger long johns for JBR, maybe. Due to the use of pull ups. But then why were all of her panties size 4-6 (barring the anomalous 12's)? Also, the fact remains that they are BOY's long johns, with the unmistakable crotch flap in the front. It's something I can't reconcile with PR and what she's clothed JBR in elsewhere, which tends to be feminine and well fitted.

andreww · Jan 17, 2017

So the question becomes why are Burkes pants on the floor of JBs bedroom?

Opened to Word "Incest." "When we checked the photos from a big manila envelope marked as evidence item #85KKY, I almost fell out of my chair, and Peck inhaled in sharp surprise. A picture showed Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary on a coffee table in the first floor study, the corner of the lower left-hand page sharply creased and pointing like an arrow to the word incest. Somebody had apparently been looking for a definition of sexual contact between family members" (Thomas 2000:293; quote and source provided by Internet poster tylin.

Ambitioned · Jan 17, 2017

ZoriahNZ said:
I can see PR buying slightly bigger long johns for JBR, maybe. Due to the use of pull ups. But then why were all of her panties size 4-6 (barring the anomalous 12's)? Also, the fact remains that they are BOY's long johns, with the unmistakable crotch flap in the front. It's something I can't reconcile with PR and what she's clothed JBR in elsewhere, which tends to be feminine and well fitted.

Maybe the invisible intruder brought them and fished a turd out of the toilet and planted it to blame BR. :sigh:

The arguing is ridiculous. There's the height and weight difference. No way could she wear PJ's fitted for BR without them falling down on her unless she wore a belt or suspenders!!

They belong to BR.

Ambitioned · Jan 17, 2017

andreww said:
So the question becomes why are Burkes pants on the floor of JBs bedroom?

We know an adult already knows what the definition of incest is. Therefore, we can guess who opened the dictionary to that word.

ZoriahNZ · Jan 17, 2017

Slightly off topic:

While screencapping and sifting through photos on Google today, I stumbled upon a picture which I find interesting.

I think it at least puts to rest the question as to whether *any* feces samples were taken from JBR's room as evidence. Whether it was tested or not to match DNA, however, is another story.

I believe this piece of carpet which has been removed bears the brown stain the CSI tech focused on in the RadarOnline crime scene video.

There are other things which irk me about this 2nd photo, though. What is the swatch of blue cloth doing there, is it covering something? In the other photo it's not there. What are those marks by the corner bed post? Some look like pockmark indentations, as if someone was poking or stabbing at the carpet. The others, however make me think of little footprints, with toe marks facing away from the bed. Which kinda disturbs me. Especially knowing those bed posts have a distinctive shape on the top and could be used as a tethering post.

Could JBR have been tied by the neck or hands or both to the end of one of them, then knocked off her balance when she struggled?

Was her bedroom the initial crime scene after all?

A poster at Topix brought up the topic of seeing what looks like footprints by the bed today and it has certainly given me pause.

CoreyRocks · Jan 17, 2017

ZoriahNZ said:
Slightly off topic:

While screencapping and sifting through photos on Google today, I stumbled upon a picture which I find interesting.

I think it at least puts to rest the question as to whether *any* feces samples were taken from JBR's room as evidence. Whether it was tested or not to match DNA, however, is another story.

I believe this piece of carpet which has been removed bears the brown stain the CSI tech focused on in the RadarOnline crime scene video.

There are other things which irk me about this 2nd photo, though. What is the swatch of blue cloth doing there, is it covering something? In the other photo it's not there. What are those marks by the corner bed post? Some look like pockmark indentations, as if someone was poking or stabbing at the carpet. The others, however make me think of little footprints, with toe marks facing away from the bed. Which kinda disturbs me. Especially knowing those bed posts have a distinctive shape on the top and could be used as a tethering post.

Could JBR have been tied by the neck or hands or both to the end of one of them, then knocked off her balance when she struggled?

Was her bedroom the initial crime scene after all?

A poster at Topix brought up the topic of seeing what looks like footprints by the bed today and it has certainly given me pause.

If I recall someone here said the blue spot is actually the padding under the carpet as LE cut out that piece because there was a red spot.

I had mentioned previously what if JonBenet's head was slammed somehow into those chunky bedposts.

Moo.

Ambitioned · Jan 17, 2017

Those pockmarks look deep as if someone slammed a trophy down or something.

At first I thought "blue cloth" area looked like a piece of the carpet cut out. But the other piece cut out isn't blue underneath. It may be a piece of cloth laid down to preserve some evidence?

Good catches!

Miz Adventure · Jan 17, 2017

I would have thought that there would be plenty of footmarks in that carpet (not just JBR's), if indeed it was the type of carpet to show footmarks.

I don't know how JBR could ever have slept properly in such a messy bed. It seems to have a lot of junk on top of it.

CoreyRocks · Jan 17, 2017

Also maybe what made those pockmarks also made the marks on JonBenet. Maybe train parts.

Good eye.

Ambitioned · Jan 17, 2017

CoreyRocks said:
Also maybe what made those pockmarks also made the marks on JonBenet. Maybe train parts.

Good eye.

Good guess!!

I tried to blow up the image to determine if it was cut. I think from the shadows in the upper part, it is indeed cut out.

UKGuy · Jan 17, 2017

CoreyRocks said:
Also maybe what made those pockmarks also made the marks on JonBenet. Maybe train parts.

Good eye.

CoreyRocks,
That would seal the case. Any train tracks found in JonBenet's room would, for me, represent a smoking gun.

I'm not 100% convinced with Kolars idea about the train tracks, but it seems the best one out there so far.

.

UKGuy · Jan 17, 2017

ZoriahNZ said:
Slightly off topic:

While screencapping and sifting through photos on Google today, I stumbled upon a picture which I find interesting.

I think it at least puts to rest the question as to whether *any* feces samples were taken from JBR's room as evidence. Whether it was tested or not to match DNA, however, is another story.

I believe this piece of carpet which has been removed bears the brown stain the CSI tech focused on in the RadarOnline crime scene video.

There are other things which irk me about this 2nd photo, though. What is the swatch of blue cloth doing there, is it covering something? In the other photo it's not there. What are those marks by the corner bed post? Some look like pockmark indentations, as if someone was poking or stabbing at the carpet. The others, however make me think of little footprints, with toe marks facing away from the bed. Which kinda disturbs me. Especially knowing those bed posts have a distinctive shape on the top and could be used as a tethering post.

Could JBR have been tied by the neck or hands or both to the end of one of them, then knocked off her balance when she struggled?

Was her bedroom the initial crime scene after all?

A poster at Topix brought up the topic of seeing what looks like footprints by the bed today and it has certainly given me pause.

ZoriahNZ,

Was her bedroom the initial crime scene after all?

Yes, of course it was. BR and JonBenet left the breakfast bar and made it back to her bedroom, where Burke intended to remain the night, just as I think he did on Christmas Eve?

What else might a brown stain be? There is evidence of fecal smearing, fecal deposits left on the alleged BR pajama pants, so a fecal deposit on the carpet would fit with BR indulging in some kind of scatological behavior either through fear or pleasure?

The pajama bottoms you can see JonBenet wearing in the previous photos are missing.

I'm assuming the corresponding size-6 underwear is also missing, but BR redressed JonBenet in a pair of his long johns, no doubt fetching a pair for himself too, as he left a soiled pair on JonBenet's bedroom floor.

For me the link between the staging and the various pajama bottoms, size-12's, etc, along with Patsy claiming responsibility, just seem to point to BR?

Neither parent is going to stage a homicide using a sibling's clothing, and a niece's Christmas gift, that's beyond bizarre.

It looks like BR acting out some dysfunctional fantasy that included sexual assault, homicide and possibly some pathological post-mortem behavior, e.g. using the paintbrush, that brings BR to such an excitable state he looses his mind whacks JonBenet, and defecates in his pajama bottoms?

Thats how I see it at present, its only the degree of premeditation that I cannot fathom so far.

ZoriahNZ · Jan 17, 2017

But compare with the first photo, there is nothing cut out on the right hand side where that blue spot should be. And in the video still, the brown smear has not yet been cut out because the video footage comes *before* the first photo timewise.

Also what about the triangular shadow on the bottom left corner of the blue rectangle? When you watch the video in motion, from 7:00 it appears to be cloth lying on top of the carpet, that particular corner sticks up a bit more than the others and shadows are created from the static light of the lamp on the dresser but also moving light from the tech torch. The shadow even shifts a bit due to the motion of the torch, elongating. Note the direction of the shadows from other objects in the shot.

It probably doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things, but clearly there were artifacts on the floor of that room which caught the interest of those investigating.

icedtea4me · Jan 17, 2017

Ambitioned said:
Maybe the invisible intruder brought them and fished a turd out of the toilet and planted it to blame BR. :sigh:

The arguing is ridiculous. There's the height and weight difference. No way could she wear PJ's fitted for BR without them falling down on her unless she wore a belt or suspenders!!

They belong to BR.

I do trust you have definitive proof that these pajama pants still fit Burke and that he hadn't outgrown them.

BTW, there's this invention that's been around for a while, but it looks like you're not familiar with it at all. It's called the elastic waistband.

Ambitioned · Jan 17, 2017

Perhaps in the first shot the padding was cut out as well, before the longer piece of carpet cut out and another shot taken?

Or as you said, something else.

But I agree with you, whatever it was, was enough to capture the interest of CBI.

Ambitioned · Jan 17, 2017

icedtea4me said:
I do trust you have definitive proof that these pajama pants still fit Burke and that he hadn't outgrown them.

BTW, there's this invention that's been around for a while, but it looks like you're not familiar with it at all. It's called the elastic waistband.

And you know they had elastic? Whoa! You cracked the case. Be sure to call Boulder.

New Advanced DNA testing

Well-Known Member

Former Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Former Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member

Active Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Attachments

Former Member

Active Member

Active Member

DNASolves

Online statistics

Forum statistics