Trial Discussion Thread #14 - 14.03.28, Day 16

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
zwiebel said:
I think that twitter was a hoax. I've just read a fair chunk of Natalie Du Toit's biography and I don't believe she even has a sister, just an elder brother Andre who was or is a waterpolo player.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'd say it was either someone who deliberately wanted to cause mischief or someone who put two and two together and made five. I really can't see them 'employing' someone on a court case who would have such a potential bias.
 
jay-jay said:
Since it's gone a bit quieter in here I'd like to just re-post a question I asked last night to see if anyone knows the answer to it, because it's mystified me a bit ..



I'm trying to work out who it was who undressed her .. was it OP (and why would he have done that?) or was it the medics and/or investigating team who turned up later. It's a definite that the clothes turned up separately at the mortuary (or at least I'm 99.9% sure it is) .. but why? How? Who by?
Click to expand...

That question was never answered, was it? I assumed that the pathologist must have had to undress her to carry out his tests and did not re-dress her before she went to the mortuary. But I think that is wrong because he was the person who received her at the mortuary. I wonder if OP did it otherwise who else would? Her clothes were put in a pastic bag.
 
Snipped from article.

Advocate Janet Henzen du Toit is believed to have been discharged from hospital on Friday morning but has been told to rest...
Click to expand...

It is understood that there is no guarantee Miss du Toit will be sufficiently well to continue with the case on April 7. If that happens, another assessor would need to be appointed and given time to read in to the case, or it could be restarted altogether.
Click to expand...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...old-moments-before-athlete-to-take-stand.html
 
Interested Bystander said:
As far as I remember she was wearing a black vest and shorts (white?). I am fairly sure Dr Stipp (neighbour) said she was wearing top and shorts. I think the undressing must have been undertaken by the medics.
Click to expand...

S'ok .. I answered my own question thanks! See my post just above yours :)
 
Does anyone else feel that Nel gives in too easily to Roux?
 
Estelle said:
That question was never answered, was it? I assumed that the pathologist must have had to undress her to carry out his tests and did not re-dress her before she went to the mortuary. But I think that is wrong because he was the person who received her at the mortuary. I wonder if OP did it otherwise who else would? He clothes were put in a pastic bag.
Click to expand...

I found the answer to that one -- see my post here -->> Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #14 - 14.03.28, Day 18 :)
 
MeeBee said:
That would be a disaster. I hope it's something small and the judge can maybe reevaluate the April 7th start.

Thanks for the update sorrell.
Click to expand...

For her own sake, I hope Ms. du Toit recovers and regains her health.

For the trial's sake, I hope another assessor won't need to be appointed. Can you imagine? Disaster is right - especially if the trial has to be started all over again.
 
jay-jay said:
Since it's gone a bit quieter in here I'd like to just re-post a question I asked last night to see if anyone knows the answer to it, because it's mystified me a bit ..



I'm trying to work out who it was who undressed her .. was it OP (and why would he have done that?) or was it the medics and/or investigating team who turned up later. It's a definite that the clothes turned up separately at the mortuary (or at least I'm 99.9% sure it is) .. but why? How? Who by?


*edited to say that I have now found the answer to that question .. see my next post.
Click to expand...

Good point, sorry I often miss some posts as its impossible to keep up at times.
I think that maybe the Police took her clothes as evidence. Botha wasn't exactly on the ball with things back then.
If OP had brought her down undressed I would have thought someone would have mentioned it in their evidence.
The shorts I'm guessing would be critical if OP said Reeva was actually using the toilet which he seemed to be saying.
Hopefully, it will become clearer if they ever get round to finishing the case!
 
Estelle said:
Does anyone else feel that Nel gives in too easily to Roux?
Click to expand...

When watching the trial, I get that impression. However, another post upstream said that Nel and Roux have been adversaries in a few previous trials, and Nel has always won. So, who knows?
 
sorrell skye said:
For her own sake, I hope Ms. du Toit recovers and regains her health.

For the trial's sake, I hope another assessor won't need to be appointed. Can you imagine? Disaster is right - especially if the trial has to be started all over again.
Click to expand...

It says that the trial would be postponed while a new assessor 'reads up' on the trial. How would that work? It seems impossible. grrrrrrrr...I hope it does not come to that.


Quote:
It is understood that there is no guarantee Miss du Toit will be sufficiently well to continue with the case on April 7. If that happens, another assessor would need to be appointed and given time to read in to the case, or it could be restarted altogether.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ake-stand.html
 
Gryffindor said:
Thank you for that. Pathologist role being in regard to Oscar's psychological state on 13/14th Feb 2013 ???? Or something else?
Click to expand...

Ooo....you could be right. They said due to exceptional circumstance and that would make sense.
Interesting that the state psychologist was in court ready to watch OP give evidence. Also, makes sense as DT want to present to the court that OP WASN'T a reasonable person on the night Reeva died....Interesting angle.
 
zwiebel said:
Here is some more info about the assessors. Unfortunately, google refused to translate it for me.

http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-03-03-assessor-het-al-as-regter-diens-gedoen
Click to expand...

Here we go:-

HTTP://WWW.BEELD.COM/NUUS/2014-03-03-ASSESSOR-HET-AL-AS-REGTER-DIENS-GEDOEN



OSCAR PISTORIUS TRIAL
Assessor has served as a judge
Monday, March 3, 2014

One of the assessors judge Thokozile Masipa Oscar Pistorius in the murder trial assists himself last year for a week as judge observed.

Adv. Janette Henzen-Du Toit has included a BA honors degree in psychology and a master's degree in criminal justice and criminal prosecution.

She is currently working on her doctorate in criminal law, criminal prosecution, evidence and constitutional interpretation.

Her thesis deals with the holistic approach to legislation on minimum sentences in South Africa.

Henzen-Du Toit in 1998 Bar and was a practicing member of the Pretoria Bar.
From 2003 to 2004 she was a practicing member of the North-desk.

She in 2005 as a practicing member of the national forum of advocates also as assessor in court cases presided.

In 2006, Du Toit-Henzen her at the Legal Aid Board (LAB) in Pretoria joined.
She is the 2010 Supreme Court unit manager of the Johannesburg relief center where she is responsible for high profile cases, cases heard by a full bench of the High Court shall be heard and appeal to the Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein.
She and Adv. Themba Mazibuko is Masipa's assessors.

• Despite inquiries to officials in the court and players in the justice department, no one at the time of publication to explain Mazibuko image's background is.
- Sonja Carstens
 
From the link that Zwiebel gave us, my google did a bad translation. Here is some of it:

Adv. Janette Henzen-Du Toit has included a BA honors degree in psychology and a master's degree in criminal justice and criminal prosecution.She is currently working on her doctorate in criminal law, criminal prosecution, evidence and constitutional interpretation. Her thesis deals with the holistic approach to legislation on minimum sentences in South Africa. She is the 2010 Supreme Court unit manager of the Johannesburg relief center where she is responsible for high profile cases, cases heard by a full bench of the High Court shall be heard and appeal to the Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein.

She and Adv. Themba Mazibuko is Masipa's assessors. Despite inquiries to officials in the court and players in the justice department, no one at the time of publication to explain Mazibuko image's background is.

http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-03-03-assessor-het-al-as-regter-diens-gedoen

So Janette seems very well qualified so I hope she is well enough to continue. This must have been a very stressful time for her. I wonder what is wrong with her.

It appears that Mazibuko is a mystery man and even journalists cannot find out anything about him.

I did a search and there are many people with his surname.
 
About the leak of the prosecution strategy (what?!) and also possible defense tactic of changing the definition of "reasonable man."


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pi...lothes-are-key-evidence-pistorius-case-n39071

Have you all seen this older Feb 28th, NBC article?

"South African journalist Karyn Maughan said his legal team is crafting a novel interpretation of the country's self-defense law, which is based on how a "reasonable" person would react to danger."

"You need to judge him as the reasonable paraplegic, and you need to take into account that this is a person who has persistently said that he's felt the most vulnerable on his stumps and was living, essentially, in a state of fear, in a state of terror."

If true, I find this legal strategy interesting, yet morally horrible. In a country with a great poverty divide and a huge difference in how black people are treated, rich privileged Pistorius, whose mogul family is like landed gentry, is trying to bend the rules, yet again.

:(
 
Estelle said:
Does anyone else feel that Nel gives in too easily to Roux?
Click to expand...

No. From what I have read he can be lethal in cross examination. I think he has such a different style from Roux that he appears not to get involved. Whilst Roux blusters on about little or nothing and endlessly repeats himself, Nel stands quietly by watching the performance. I think he has probably brought into evidence everything he needs for a good cross examination but I have no legal experience, so what do I know - LOL.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 201 more.
Total: 3,984 (members: 202, guests: 3,782)

Online statistics

Members online
202
Guests online
3,782
Total visitors
3,984
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
595,564
Messages
18,026,660
Members
229,685
Latest member
Gio1tobey
Back
Top