OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #6

[Salem]

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Originally Posted by Idaho4Groenes

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If you haven't read the rules or TOS lately, now might be a good time to do so. The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Once again, Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. We do not sleuth family until we are given a reason to do so. No one in this case has been named a POI. Further sleuthing, disparaging comments, and speculation about family involvement will not be tolerated. Anyone continuing to do so will be given a time out. THIS IS THE FINAL WARNING.

It is easy to blame the family. And yes, it is important to look there. But at this point, LE has given us no reason to do so. So for now, get out of your "sleuthing comfort zone". There are dozens of other avenues to explore.

Also, we NEVER sleuth minors. You may link to Facebook pages, but do not post direct quotes. And only link to those directly involved in the case.

As always, if you have any questions, please ask. You can PM a moderator, or check the Threadiquette thread that is a sticky at the top of the forum. (Threadiquette- Questions about rules welcome here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community)

Please do not go off-topic. For example, we had an issue in the last thread with posters picking apart Kyron's science project, or the t-shirt he is wearing. That is off-topic unless you can directly tie it to his disappearance. Hope that's clear.

[pufnstuf]

Here's a pretty informative article about school absence procedures. What it tells me is that even if Skyline had used the automated reporting to parents, they still might not have been notified until it was too late.

There HAS to be a reason that Kyron's teacher wasn't concerned about his absence. She knew that he had been in class. Probably on any other day, say, if they had gone to lunch and then returned and he was not there, she would have been alarmed.

But why, on this day, was she not alarmed about him not being at his desk? That's part of the answer to this perplexing mystery, I think.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/j...cal-officials/

[Pensfan]

Originally Posted by pufnstuf

Here's a pretty informative article about school absence procedures. What it tells me is that even if Skyline had used the automated reporting to parents, they still might not have been notified until it was too late.

There HAS to be a reason that Kyron's teacher wasn't concerned about his absence. She knew that he had been in class. Probably on any other day, say, if they had gone to lunch and then returned and he was not there, she would have been alarmed.

But why, on this day, was she not alarmed about him not being at his desk? That's part of the answer to this perplexing mystery, I think.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/j...cal-officials/

bbm Especially if his backpack was at his desk or cubby! Other kids would have seen his backpack at the cubby also.

[Calliope]

Posted on last thread by CharlestonGal:

Yes, teens who become very angry at their parents can certainly strike out and do heinous things to hurt them where it hurts most.

Or to hurt other adults?

Stepmom is a teacher. I realize she's now a stay at home mom (IIRC, baby is 18 months old), but when did she last work as a teacher? Where did she teach? Was she ever involved in any ugly incidents with (now former) students and/or their parents? Did she ever serve in an administrative / disciplinary position, even temporarily as cover or in an 'on-call' status? Did she ever have any complaints filed against her (legit or not)? (I'd also include any incidents involving other teachers and staff, of course) FWIW, I listened to the scanner while awaiting the thread to reopen last night; I noticed mention of 'gang' more than once.

I know this is stupid and a BIG stretch, but some people have very long memories and hold grudges for a long time.

BTW, regarding the 'gym' comments. We don't know the background and circumstances surrounding this. For all we know, it was something set up with LE to somehow bait the person(s) involved in Kyron's disappearance.

[pufnstuf]

Originally Posted by Calliope

Posted on last thread by CharlestonGal:

Or to hurt other adults?

Stepmom is a teacher. I realize she's now a stay at home mom (IIRC, baby is 18 months old), but when did she last work as a teacher? Where did she teach? Was she ever involved in any ugly incidents with (now former) students and/or their parents? Did she ever serve in an administrative / disciplinary position, even temporarily as cover or in an 'on-call' status? Did she ever have any complaints filed against her (legit or not)? (I'd also include any incidents involving other teachers and staff, of course) FWIW, I listened to the scanner while awaiting the thread to reopen last night; I noticed mention of 'gang' more than once.

I know this is stupid and a BIG stretch, but some people have very long memories and hold grudges for a long time.

BTW, regarding the 'gym' comments. We don't know the background and circumstances surrounding this. For all we know, it was something set up with LE to somehow bait the person(s) involved in Kyron's disappearance.

She only taught one year. 2002-2003, and not in the Skyline school.

[Calliope]

Originally Posted by pufnstuf

She only taught one year. 2002-2003, and not in the Skyline school.

Wouldn't have to be at skyline.... I know it was a stupid thought, but just trying to think of who might have reason to hurt this family.

[suzet]

Originally Posted by pufnstuf

She only taught one year. 2002-2003, and not in the Skyline school.

Thought I read on her FB that she helped out with the reading program at Skyline. Sorry, I don't want to have to go through the wall again trying to find that info and not sure if allowed to do so.

[DeeMarie]

Originally Posted by pufnstuf

Here's a pretty informative article about school absence procedures. What it tells me is that even if Skyline had used the automated reporting to parents, they still might not have been notified until it was too late.

There HAS to be a reason that Kyron's teacher wasn't concerned about his absence. She knew that he had been in class. Probably on any other day, say, if they had gone to lunch and then returned and he was not there, she would have been alarmed.

But why, on this day, was she not alarmed about him not being at his desk? That's part of the answer to this perplexing mystery, I think.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/j...cal-officials/

Agreed - and its such a small school - his back-pack would have sat there (at is desk or in a back room in a coat area?) all day and no one was alarmed? Like you said there HAS to be a reason that Kyron's teacher(s) wasn't concerned about his absence..and I am assuming that he had more than one class/teacher so it would have been multiple teachers that were not concerned as well..

[tlcya]

Originally Posted by DeeMarie

Agreed - and its such a small school - his back-pack would have sat there (at is desk or in a back room in a coat area?) all day and no one was alarmed? Like you said there HAS to be a reason that Kyron's teacher(s) wasn't concerned about his absence..and I am assuming that he had more than one class/teacher so it would have been multiple teachers that were not concerned as well..

BBM
I am unsure how elementary schools are structured there but a 7 year old in 2nd grade where I am at would not have more than one teacher (except for classes like music or PE which do not take place every day but only a couple of days a week for an hour each). So there may have only been one teacher to be concerned or not as to where he was.

[pufnstuf]

Originally Posted by tlcox

BBM
I am unsure how elementary schools are structured there but a 7 year old in 2nd grade where I am at would not have more than one teacher (except for classes like music or PE which do not take place every day but only a couple of days a week for an hour each). So there may have only been one teacher to be concerned or not as to where he was.

I don't live there either, tlcox...

Here, though, kids go to homeroom, then to reading, then back to homeroom, then to PE, then back to homeroom, and then sometimes to art.

And all homerooms have teaching assistants... or they did until our district cut the assistants because of economic woes.

[Pensfan]

Originally Posted by pufnstuf

I don't live there either, tlcox...

Here, though, kids go to homeroom, then to reading, then back to homeroom, then to PE, then back to homeroom, and then sometimes to art.

And all homerooms have teaching assistants... or they did until our district cut the assistants because of economic woes.

In my state, kids who need extra help also have additional teachers in separate rooms to assist them in math or reading.

[tlcya]

Originally Posted by pufnstuf

I don't live there either, tlcox...

Here, though, kids go to homeroom, then to reading, then back to homeroom, then to PE, then back to homeroom, and then sometimes to art.

And all homerooms have teaching assistants... or they did until our district cut the assistants because of economic woes.

I wish we had more locals on the thread to give us a picture of a normal day for a 2nd grader at Skyline. It would make it so much easier for us to find out what was off or diferent about this day if we knew more about how a regular one was structured.

At my kids elementary school there is no homeroom, etc. There is simply the classroom and their teacher. They leave the room for recess, lunch and twice a week for music/art and PE.

Also it would be interesting to know the class size of Kyron's class. My kids were blessed with very small class size (10 to 15 students) this year but there are other schools in my disctrict had extremely large class size (28 to 30).

[Amster]

There has to be a reason why the teacher wasn't alarmed, surprised, curious about Kyrons' absence. Wish we knew why.

[swa]

Originally Posted by Amster

There has to be a reason why the teacher wasn't alarmed, surprised, curious about Kyrons' absence. Wish we knew why.

At my daughter's elementary school, if the child is not in their seat by 8:00, the parents are contacted immediately -- unless the parents have already let the school or teacher know about a sickness, etc.

If there is a doctor's appointment and a child has to leave class -- they are walked by two other students to the front -- so there are always two students walking back.

All bathrooms are in the actual classroom itself -- so they never get to wander.

[defender123]

To use that excuse to lure him , they would need to be familiar with his weakness for that kind of thing. So it had to be someone he was familiar with. Was this out in someones car?
There was such a small window of time. I wonder if the perp. was becoming more anxious as the school year was coming to a close, and grabbed the chance.

[CharlestonGal]

Originally Posted by Amster

There has to be a reason why the teacher wasn't alarmed, surprised, curious about Kyrons' absence. Wish we knew why.

The school didn't have any kind of decent answer to that question. The superintendent said that two teachers saw Kryon with his SM and just "assumed" he had left with her.

That didn't make any kind of sense to me whatsoever - weren't alot of the parents there at school that morning as well? It's not like it was odd that Kyron's SM was there and the assumption could be made that he left with her. On a regular day, maybe that would make sense. But it doesn't make sense to jump to that conclusion on THIS day.

The teachers and the school haven't offered any kind of reasonable excuse as to why they didn't follow up on Kyron's disappearance from the school. They admit they noticed, but they didn't do anything about it.

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

Originally Posted by CharlestonGal

The school didn't have any kind of decent answer to that question. The superintendent said that two teachers saw Kryon with his SM and just "assumed" he had left with her.

That didn't make any kind of sense to me whatsoever - weren't alot of the parents there at school that morning as well? It's not like it was odd that Kyron's SM was there and the assumption could be made that he left with her. On a regular day, maybe that would make sense. But it doesn't make sense to jump to that conclusion on THIS day.

The teachers and the school haven't offered any kind of reasonable excuse as to why they didn't follow up on Kyron's disappearance from the school. They admit they noticed, but they didn't do anything about it.

I am wondering if they had a good reason to believe so (that he left with his mother and possiably requested or "assumed" she signed him out due to converstations and or written notice) up to and including the email exchange between the teacher and herself indicating so when can we pick up Kyron's Science Project? The thing is noone is saying anything so I guess we can't know the answers to those questions at this time. Why not? I dunno.

[southern_scout]

Originally Posted by CharlestonGal

The school didn't have any kind of decent answer to that question. The superintendent said that two teachers saw Kryon with his SM and just "assumed" he had left with her.

That didn't make any kind of sense to me whatsoever - weren't alot of the parents there at school that morning as well? It's not like it was odd that Kyron's SM was there and the assumption could be made that he left with her. On a regular day, maybe that would make sense. But it doesn't make sense to jump to that conclusion on THIS day.

The teachers and the school haven't offered any kind of reasonable excuse as to why they didn't follow up on Kyron's disappearance from the school. They admit they noticed, but they didn't do anything about it.

I think back when they first started talking about this, they made it pretty clear that they had lax security standards. They noticed he was gone, assumed he left with SM. If this is the way it's always been there, parents allowed to take kids without signing out on special days, then they wouldn't have had a reason to be alarmed. As a former teacher, I think the left-behind jacket and backpack would have made me wonder if the student was coming back. I guess I can see where if she thought "oh yeah, he had an appointment" she might have assumed they just decided to take the day off.

[Ms Suzanne]

Originally Posted by Amster

There has to be a reason why the teacher wasn't alarmed, surprised, curious about Kyrons' absence. Wish we knew why.

It sounds like to me she honestly thought he was with the mother at an appointment?

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by Ms Suzanne

It sounds like to me she honestly thought he was with the mother at an appointment?

Has it been confirmed that the stepmom said something about an appointment to the teacher? Or is it still just rumor?

[tarabull]

Originally Posted by Amster

There has to be a reason why the teacher wasn't alarmed, surprised, curious about Kyrons' absence. Wish we knew why.

THIS is the part that has keeps me flopping like a fish out of water all night looooooooooooooooooooooooooong!!!


OH I'm sure there's a logical explaination I just can't for the life of me, come up with it.

Anyone?

[jadejazzkayla]

Originally Posted by tarabull

THIS is the part that has keeps me flopping like a fish out of water all night looooooooooooooooooooooooooong!!!

IF i have this correctly, Friday morning SM told teacher directly about an appointment, unless it was for that daywhy wouldn't you just include the info about appointment in the email sent later in the day to his teacher about picking up his tree frog project?!??! That is IF the appointment was for sometime down the road, say the upcoming week.

OH I'm sure there's a logical explaination I just can't for the life of me, come up with it.

Anyone?

it could be that SM meant to ask teacher about picking up project when she spoke to her in person friday morning in the gym re: kyron's appt and she forgot. thus, the email later that day.

[nanny2five]

Originally Posted by pufnstuf

Here's a pretty informative article about school absence procedures. What it tells me is that even if Skyline had used the automated reporting to parents, they still might not have been notified until it was too late.

There HAS to be a reason that Kyron's teacher wasn't concerned about his absence. She knew that he had been in class. Probably on any other day, say, if they had gone to lunch and then returned and he was not there, she would have been alarmed.

But why, on this day, was she not alarmed about him not being at his desk? That's part of the answer to this perplexing mystery, I think.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/j...cal-officials/

bbm - i agree, pufnstuf, i am not putting blame on the teacher exactly, but i do wonder why she didnt become alarmed when Kyron's jacket and pack were there but he was not? most teachers i know would not just "assume" anything under those conditions. i just got here today tho and i havent read to the end yet so i hope there is some news since this morning. i pray this little boy comes home safe and sound, but i fear that wont be the case

[TripleA]

Originally Posted by nanny2five

bbm - i agree, pufnstuf, i am not putting blame on the teacher exactly, but i do wonder why she didnt become alarmed when Kyron's jacket and pack were there but he was not? most teachers i know would not just "assume" anything under those conditions. i just got here today tho and i havent read to the end yet so i hope there is some news since this morning. i pray this little boy comes home safe and sound, but i fear that wont be the case

I have been inside all three of my children's elementary school classrooms over past 15 years and I don't find it odd at all the teacher wouldn't be alarmed by a backpack or coat left in a cubby, or on a chair, or on the floor, or on a desk, or really just about anywhere. It can be chaotic even on normal days, and even when procedures for daily grind are in place. The cubby area can get cluttered and messy depending on the rigidness of the teacher and the diligence of the students. I am sure that it is likely that many times a student may leave a backpack or coat at school. I am positive that my daughter's extra sneakers are in her classroom somewhere right now, and she always has an extra sweater or sweatshirt on her hook.

I personally don't think it would set off any alarms for me.

[freshmom]

Originally Posted by TripleA

I have been inside all three of my children's elementary school classrooms over past 15 years and I don't find it odd at all the teacher wouldn't be alarmed by a backpack or coat left in a cubby, or on a chair, or on the floor, or on a desk, or really just about anywhere. It can be chaotic even on normal days, and even when procedures for daily grind are in place. The cubby area can get cluttered and messy depending on the rigidness of the teacher and the diligence of the students. I am sure that it is likely that many times a student may leave a backpack or coat at school. I am positive that my daughter's extra sneakers are in her classroom somewhere right now, and she always has an extra sweater or sweatshirt on her hook.

I personally don't think it would set off any alarms for me.

I sort of agree. It's easy to monday morning quarterback this, but remember to SM, Kyron, Teacher and everyone else, this was just a normal (albeit hectic)chaotic day in the elementary school year. Some days at my house its like a whirlwind and if I had to remember a little detail 8 hours later I might say " Oh Yeah" but in the moment you may not.