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Kyron Horman Kyron went missing from his school in Oregon. His mother has a civil suit on his step-mother and his father is in the middle of a divorce. WHERE IS KYRON?


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Old 06-21-2010, 05:31 PM
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Stranger abduction theory

Discuss your thoughts about a stranger abduction here.

Why do you think this might be a stranger abduction case?

If it is, why would LE call it an isolated case?

Why didn't we hear that LE was interviewing RSOs in the area?

Please put some reasons behind your theories. I didn't create this to make the case against the SM and family stronger, but to provoke more thought into the stranger abduction scenario.

For example, if it were a stranger abduction, I don't know why they would have TM's pics on flyers?

Or, I might think it was a stranger abduction because another student said they saw TM leave without Kyron that day. Just some examples.
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:44 PM
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I don't think this is a stranger abduction because of the way it all came about.

- in school
- with parents, teachers around
- someone would have seen something, most likely
- the parents would probably be begging for Kyron's return
- LE would NOT say it's an "isolated case" if it was a stranger abduction
- LE would talk more about the perp...try to give info about him/her. They've said nothing.

All of that and more indicates this is not a stranger abduction.
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:46 PM
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I do not think there is any chance this was a stranger abduction.

I am basing my opinion on a list of hundreds of clues in this case. Some of those posted in these threads and other clues we cannot post about.

Threading it all together in one brain makes me certain. There are aspects of the case I have not spent a lot of time on in terms of details (such as what happened to Kyron when they left the school) but that will be the next chapter as we all start to learn more.

I do hope his body is found soon enough that forensics can take over and little Kyron can finally 'speak' to all of us about what happened to him after school that tragic morning.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:11 PM
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I was looking at the maps. One thing that struck me was the distance from the road to K's home. I used to live in a house situated like that, but there weren't that much folliage/trees. I walked my 7 y/o back and forth to the road to meet the bus every day. Does anyone know how busy or what the speed limit is on this road?

Of course, we don't know if SM did this, but if she did, that would require either driving with the youngest child or using a stroller to meet the bus both ways - unless she was in a routine with the youngest and left her alone to nap or what have you.

In any event, I would think that a stranger abduction would have been MUCH easier in this location rather than at a populated school...that is if K was watched and targeted.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:15 PM
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I do not think he was taken by stranger, nor by a parent (bio or step).

I think the perp is someone he knew, likely a teenager at his school and parents of the perp are covering for their child. I think Kyron left school on foot with this person(s) and is hidden (deceased) very close to the school/where he was taken bby the perp(s).
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:48 AM
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I do not think he was taken by stranger, nor by a parent (bio or step).

I think the perp is someone he knew, likely a teenager at his school and parents of the perp are covering for their child. I think Kyron left school on foot with this person(s) and is hidden (deceased) very close to the school/where he was taken bby the perp(s).
I feel that way too....

Also, I think they know more then they are telling...
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:26 PM
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I think this is a very credible theory. Had not thought of the possibility before, but it makes far more sense than a stranger abduction does.

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Originally Posted by mrsjonnob View Post
I do not think he was taken by stranger, nor by a parent (bio or step).

I think the perp is someone he knew, likely a teenager at his school and parents of the perp are covering for their child. I think Kyron left school on foot with this person(s) and is hidden (deceased) very close to the school/where he was taken bby the perp(s).
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:57 PM
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I believe Kyron was taken by someone he may have known at the school. Or there is a possibility that it was a stranger but someone that Kyron thought belonged there and was harmless. Such as if the person told them they had a child there in a different grade or someone who ask Kyron to help him with something.

When I have watched Oprah's shows on stranger abductions the MO was basically the same thing. The person who pretended to be the predator would walk up to the child and ask for their help and much to the parents horror the child just took the hand of the person and walked off with them.

I think Kyron would think that a bad stranger would be someone that looked like the boogeyman or boogeywomen. Scary. Someone he may have to fear trying to nab him from his house or his own yard but at his age with his cognitive thinking I don't believe he would see any danger from those that were inside his own school.

I think Kyron had been brought up to respect adults and had no circumstances where he had to fear one so imo he saw adults as kind people.

Imo, whomever did this saw Kyron and his mom there and he saw Kyron's mom leave. I think he struck when the opportunity arose shortly after Kyron left to go back to his classroom.

Imo, it is likely this person stopped to chat with Kyron a second as Kyron was going to his classroom, bragging on his exhibit, and telling him he really needed to go see the electric exhibit. He may have told him the electric exhibit was downstairs and the perp was waiting at the bottom of the stairs when Kyron came back down after talking with Tanner and told Kyron he needed his help first and needed to bring something inside from his vehicle. So they went out the exit door closest to Kyron's room.

IMO
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsjonnob View Post
I do not think he was taken by stranger, nor by a parent (bio or step).

I think the perp is someone he knew, likely a teenager at his school and parents of the perp are covering for their child. I think Kyron left school on foot with this person(s) and is hidden (deceased) very close to the school/where he was taken bby the perp(s).
Exactly how I feel too
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:53 PM
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I'd like to add a theory that the perp has or ordered a copy of one or more of the grandfathers books.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:54 PM
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I'm questioning something about the hallway outside Kyron's classroom. Terri says she saw Kyron going up the hall towards his class. This may have been discounted, but I thought the classmate said that the aide/volunteer was in the room and missed Kyron for her group of five before the teacher entered the room. If this is true, the teacher would have still been out of the room past 8:45 but the others should have been in the room. Looks like some of those people would have seen or heard a stranger or Kyron out in that hall or that someone would have passed him and questioned just what he was doing. Does anyone know if I'm correct about the teacher not being in the room until after Kyron was missed by the aide at 8:45?
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by txsvicki View Post
I'm questioning something about the hallway outside Kyron's classroom. Terri says she saw Kyron going up the hall towards his class. This may have been discounted, but I thought the classmate said that the aide/volunteer was in the room and missed Kyron for her group of five before the teacher entered the room. If this is true, the teacher would have still been out of the room past 8:45 but the others should have been in the room. Looks like some of those people would have seen or heard a stranger or Kyron out in that hall or that someone would have passed him and questioned just what he was doing. Does anyone know if I'm correct about the teacher not being in the room until after Kyron was missed by the aide at 8:45?
IIRC, the class was broken into groups shortly after 8:45 to tour the exhibits. Presumably the teacher led one group. At 10AM, as the chaperone's (and teacher) were returning their young charges to the classroom, the one shepherding Kyron's group around realized he was not there (ASSUMING THE CHILD WHO REPORTED THIS CORRECTLY). This would assume that the chaperone not only had 6 kids to begin with, but knew that one of them was Kyron, and that the one missing at the end was Kyron. So who interviewed the chaperone?
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LisaB View Post
IIRC, the class was broken into groups shortly after 8:45 to tour the exhibits. Presumably the teacher led one group. At 10AM, as the chaperone's (and teacher) were returning their young charges to the classroom, the one shepherding Kyron's group around realized he was not there (ASSUMING THE CHILD WHO REPORTED THIS CORRECTLY). This would assume that the chaperone not only had 6 kids to begin with, but knew that one of them was Kyron, and that the one missing at the end was Kyron. So who interviewed the chaperone?
I think this is such an important part of the timeline. We keep hearing that "Terri was the last one to see Kyron". So did the chaperone have Kyron at the beginning of the tour when they did the count? They obviously knew at 10 am that Kyron wasn't with them and should have been...so obviously they knew he was part of the group (or supposed to be) at some point. So did they SEE him in the beginning when they were assigned their groups? If so, maybe THAT person was the last person to see him at the school...
I'm sure the kids that were in that group could recall if Kyron was with them while they were walking around...at least in the beginning. I haven't heard anything about comments from the other children that were in his assigned group. I'm sure LE has talked to them, though.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LisaB View Post
IIRC, the class was broken into groups shortly after 8:45 to tour the exhibits. Presumably the teacher led one group. At 10AM, as the chaperone's (and teacher) were returning their young charges to the classroom, the one shepherding Kyron's group around realized he was not there (ASSUMING THE CHILD WHO REPORTED THIS CORRECTLY). This would assume that the chaperone not only had 6 kids to begin with, but knew that one of them was Kyron, and that the one missing at the end was Kyron. So who interviewed the chaperone?
also assuming the child reported correctly - the conversation between the volunteer and this un-named teacher could have happened at the start of the tour or at anytime between the time kyron was assigned to her (the volunteer) and the time the teacher marked him absent...and in my opinion, whether this conversation happened at the start of the tour or the middle or the end doesn't matter.

What's important, to me, is the volunteer knew kyron was assigned to her group of kids - and at some point after she was assigned kyron - she noticed him missing and SHE REPORTED KYRON MISSING in a very timely manner - to a teacher.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:20 PM
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Okay, I am not 100% convinced that it is a stranger abduction but I am leaning that way. Mostly because of the timing. I believe that it would be someone connected in some way with the school. Someone who had contact with Kyron there pretty much daily and then realizing that the school year was coming to an end decided to make a move. I believe that this was at least partially planned out and it was someone who had knowledge of the school and schedule.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:26 PM
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It would absolutely have to be someone connected to the school somehow with intimate knowledge. Otherwise, how would the perp know that SM was going to take K to school that morning and at what time? He usually rode the bus and was scheduled to in order to get home that afternoon. There was only about a 15 minute window in which to abduct.

I'm sure of the fact that his project was brought to school earlier than the abduction day. Everyone's was already set up...including the "electric" one..which is down the stairs, I'm assuming, from his classroom based on the pictures.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:46 PM
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It would absolutely have to be someone connected to the school somehow with intimate knowledge. Otherwise, how would the perp know that SM was going to take K to school that morning and at what time? He usually rode the bus and was scheduled to in order to get home that afternoon. There was only about a 15 minute window in which to abduct.

I'm sure of the fact that his project was brought to school earlier than the abduction day. Everyone's was already set up...including the "electric" one..which is down the stairs, I'm assuming, from his classroom based on the pictures.

Are you sure? I had heard they brought it in that morning....
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:58 PM
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It would absolutely have to be someone connected to the school somehow with intimate knowledge. Otherwise, how would the perp know that SM was going to take K to school that morning and at what time? He usually rode the bus and was scheduled to in order to get home that afternoon. There was only about a 15 minute window in which to abduct.

I'm sure of the fact that his project was brought to school earlier than the abduction day. Everyone's was already set up...including the "electric" one..which is down the stairs, I'm assuming, from his classroom based on the pictures.
Someone help me out here. I'm still stuck on the "deskmate's statement about Kyron and the electric experiment and what he said about the "substitute" noticing Kyron missing. I think his statement is the only one so far that gives even a vague clue if indeed it happened as he described. Here are the questions that keep me up at night:

Did he really see Kyron in the hallway rushing off to see a cool experiment?

Was there an electric experiment and if so where?

Why would he say the "substitute" noticed Kyron was missing after the tour if this never happened?

He said the teacher said he probably went to the bathroom or was getting a drink, then she left. Who left, the teacher or the "substitute?"

If she did indeed notice he was missing, did she see him at the beginning of the tour? If not, how did she know he was supposed to be there?

Were there a number of volunteers at the school at that time who helped with the science fair, and if so did some of them leave right around the time Kyron was at the bathroom or getting water (once the kids were back in class), just after the tour? If so, there could have been a number of people leaving from various areas at that time. Could Kyron have disappeared with one of them? Fewer people around at that time...lots going on...easy to lure a kid out to a car on the pretense of helping you load something up.

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Old 06-21-2010, 06:37 PM
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Okay, I am not 100% convinced that it is a stranger abduction but I am leaning that way. Mostly because of the timing. I believe that it would be someone connected in some way with the school. Someone who had contact with Kyron there pretty much daily and then realizing that the school year was coming to an end decided to make a move. I believe that this was at least partially planned out and it was someone who had knowledge of the school and schedule.
Just to explain that by stranger, I mean non-immediate family. But someone known to him.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:26 PM
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They haven't interviewed the local RSO's?
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:36 AM
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They haven't interviewed the local RSO's?

It seems to me that LE have believed that the kidnapper is Terry right from the beginning. I think they have had tunnel vision. She could still be a person of interest but they should be looking in other places too. What if it isn't Terry. I know there was something about her cell phone pings and she denied being where the pings came from. But it just doesn't seem that they have very much to prove it was her.

Everything that I have read says she was a great mom to Kyron. She gave up her job to stay home and raise him even before her little girl was born. People say she treated him like her own and was involved in his classrooms and school functions. I just don't know. I have to see a lot more evidence before I even begin to think she is guilty. I can't find a motive either. This is rare for me. I usually make up my mind pretty quick. This one puzzles me. I wish they would find the little guy....alive.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:05 AM
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It seems to me that LE have believed that the kidnapper is Terry right from the beginning. I think they have had tunnel vision. She could still be a person of interest but they should be looking in other places too. What if it isn't Terry. I know there was something about her cell phone pings and she denied being where the pings came from. But it just doesn't seem that they have very much to prove it was her.

Everything that I have read says she was a great mom to Kyron. She gave up her job to stay home and raise him even before her little girl was born. People say she treated him like her own and was involved in his classrooms and school functions. I just don't know. I have to see a lot more evidence before I even begin to think she is guilty. I can't find a motive either. This is rare for me. I usually make up my mind pretty quick. This one puzzles me. I wish they would find the little guy....alive.
You might be right, it is easy to get tunnel vision if you've got a family member who apparently has contemplated murder of a family member before. I presume that parents having homicidal thoughts doesn't protect their children of stranger abduction so the recent information does not make stranger abduction any less likely than it used to be. Still, it's an amazing coincidence if they manage to uncover a completely unrelated murder for hire plan investigating a child abduction committed by someone else altogether.

I just feel that if she was some kind of supermom to Kyron she wouldn't have attempted to hire a hitman to kill his father.
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:29 PM
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I think Kyron left school on foot with this person(s) and is hidden (deceased) very close to the school/where he was taken bby the perp(s).
Except:

1. A search all around the school in a 2 mi area was undertaken with no signs of Kyron.

2. Tracking dogs (and possibly cadaver dogs) did not get a hit. If Kyron walked away (and I'm talking not walking to the parking lot and getting into a car) one would expect at least one of the SAR dogs to pick up on his scent.

3. If he was deceased and nearby, a cadaver dog would be expected to pick up on something.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:06 PM
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Except:

1. A search all around the school in a 2 mi area was undertaken with no signs of Kyron.

2. Tracking dogs (and possibly cadaver dogs) did not get a hit. If Kyron walked away (and I'm talking not walking to the parking lot and getting into a car) one would expect at least one of the SAR dogs to pick up on his scent.

3. If he was deceased and nearby, a cadaver dog would be expected to pick up on something.
SAR dogs and cadaver dogs can do amazing things but they are not perfect. There have been searches where it was realised later that dogs were within feet of the remains without indicating on them. And other cases where the dog indicated on remains but the handler did not pick up on or correctly interpret the indication (for example, there was a dead animal near hidden remains and the handler saw the dead animal first, then assumed that was what the dog was indicating on).

Much of the terrain around the school was repeatedly described as rugged, dangerous, difficult to negotiate, etc. It is known that at least one trained SAR person had to be evacuated via ambulance due to injuries suffered from the terrain. Plus, overhead pictures of the area around the school show areas of heavy forest, ravines, etc.

So I think the fact that no SAR dogs picked up any scent is suggestive but cannot be considered absolutely corroborative in any way.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:47 PM
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SAR dogs and cadaver dogs can do amazing things but they are not perfect. There have been searches where it was realised later that dogs were within feet of the remains without indicating on them. And other cases where the dog indicated on remains but the handler did not pick up on or correctly interpret the indication (for example, there was a dead animal near hidden remains and the handler saw the dead animal first, then assumed that was what the dog was indicating on).

.
Respectifully snipped for space. BBM. If my cadavar dog hit on a dead animal, I would have zero confidence in that dog. Likewise, if I'm the trainer and I think my dog hit on dead animal and that didn't raise a red flag for me that something is amiss with either the dog or the situation, then I don't need to be working dogs.

A well trained cadavar dog hits on cadaverine and putrecine and other smells of death that are distinctive of a dead human being.

Dead humans do not smell like any other dead animal.
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