Websleuths
Go Back   Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community > Featured Case Discussion > JonBenet Ramsey

Notices

JonBenet Ramsey What really happened to 6 year old JonBenet? Someone is getting away with murder. All information posted on this site is gained through published documentation on this case. It is strictly opinion only.


View Poll Results: Which RDI claim is easiest to prove?
PR/JR handled the weapons or sexually assaulted. 5 4.10%
PR/JR wrote the ransom note or helped to write it. 83 68.03%
PR/JR were motivated to hide prior abuse or rage. 11 9.02%
PR/JR used words or actions that prove their guilt. 23 18.85%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-04-2010, 01:23 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,299
Which is strongest RDI evidence?

Which RDI claim is easiest to prove?

PR/JR handled the weapons or sexually assaulted.
PR/JR wrote the ransom note or helped to write it.
PR/JR were motivated to hide prior abuse or rage.
PR/JR used words or actions that prove their guilt.

And how would you go about proving it?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-04-2010, 04:05 AM
claudicici's Avatar
claudicici claudicici is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,806
...of course none of it can be proven with what we have or the case would be solved.
....but IMO their actions and words are the strongest evidence against them.
Their action and words make me personally not able to move over to the IDI side.
Reply With Quote
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to claudicici For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old 10-04-2010, 08:57 PM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudicici View Post
...of course none of it can be proven with what we have or the case would be solved.
....but IMO their actions and words are the strongest evidence against them.
Their action and words make me personally not able to move over to the IDI side.
my bold

Hmm. None of it can be proven...wonder why? That is a clue in itself, that at least four separate paths to R guilt are each blocked.

With four ways for the R's to go down, unable to prove even one? I actually believe there are multitudes of ways for the guilty to go down, not just four.

But these four seem to be the main ones RDI invests a lot of time in, as if they have a case. I'm glad at least one here has noticed there isn't really a solid case on any front. Why is that? You'd think with amateurs, first-timers who were in fact guilty, that at least one would've panned out especially after all these years.

Instead now we have this DNA.

Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 10-04-2010 at 09:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-04-2010, 09:40 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the Federal Witness Protection Program
Posts: 7,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
my bold

Hmm. None of it can be proven...wonder why? That is a clue in itself, that at least four separate paths to R guilt are each blocked.

With four ways for the R's to go down, unable to prove even one? I actually believe there are multitudes of ways for the guilty to go down, not just four.

But these four seem to be the main ones RDI invests a lot of time in, as if they have a case. I'm glad at least one here has noticed there isn't really a solid case on any front. Why is that? You'd think with amateurs, first-timers who were in fact guilty, that at least one would've panned out especially after all these years.

Instead now we have this DNA.
You know the answer to that- we all do. unfortunately, irrevocable mistakes made by LE at the very beginning (the first few hours) tainted the evidence forever. It it were a computer, the message "FATAL ERROR" would appear. Fatal in the sense that the ramifications were final and unalterable.
__________________
THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.
Reply With Quote
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to DeeDee249 For This Useful Post:
  #5  
Old 10-05-2010, 01:14 AM
LinasK's Avatar
LinasK LinasK is offline
Verified Insider-Mark Dribin case
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 17,420
The fiber evidence. Forensics don't lie... followed by Patsy's having written the ransom note.
__________________
Please help locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff and bring them home.


Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to LinasK For This Useful Post:
  #6  
Old 10-05-2010, 07:15 PM
SuperDave's Avatar
SuperDave SuperDave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 11,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
But these four seem to be the main ones RDI invests a lot of time in, as if they have a case.
And I'm glad you've brought it up, because there's a reason for that emphasis. This is a good thread.

Quote:
I'm glad at least one here has noticed there isn't really a solid case on any front. Why is that?
To answer that question, I suggest we revisit the "cross-fingerpointing defense."

Make no mistake: there are these four paths. The problem is they all lead to BOTH, not just one.

Quote:
You'd think with amateurs, first-timers who were in fact guilty, that at least one would've panned out especially after all these years.
I assert that most other places, it very well would have. That's the key here.
__________________
All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to SuperDave For This Useful Post:
  #7  
Old 10-05-2010, 08:40 PM
Linda7NJ's Avatar
Linda7NJ Linda7NJ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 26,025
I couldn't vote either. It's not any one thing by itself, it's the whole ball of wax!
__________________


Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Linda7NJ For This Useful Post:
  #8  
Old 10-06-2010, 05:25 PM
SuperDave's Avatar
SuperDave SuperDave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 11,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda7NJ View Post
I couldn't vote either. It's not any one thing by itself, it's the whole ball of wax!
That's how I look at it.

Still, something has to get it started.
__________________
All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SuperDave For This Useful Post:
  #9  
Old 01-20-2011, 06:50 PM
SuperDave's Avatar
SuperDave SuperDave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 11,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoldontoyourHat
You'd think with amateurs, first-timers who were in fact guilty, that at least one would've panned out especially after all these years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
I assert that most other places, it very well would have. That's the key here.
I think I should elaborate on that. As I stated in the "Clever or Lucky" thread, the Rs were amateurs, but their lawyers weren't.
__________________
All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to SuperDave For This Useful Post:
  #10  
Old 10-04-2010, 05:24 AM
madeleine's Avatar
madeleine madeleine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,535
I voted the last even if that's not ...evidence.I don't trust LE when making claims re the fibers,I don't trust those handwriting "experts" which say PR wrote the note,etc
BUT I trust my own eyes and ears and what makes me still have some RDI thoughts are the R's actions&behaviour.
Does that prove anything?To me yes but you can't take it to a court of law so that means pretty nothing.

BUT LE CAN exploit it,they can ask questions about why they did or didn't do this and that and IMO it's the only way to get somewhere if RDI....not the fibers,not the handwriting,ask the right questions (which might be too late anyway).
__________________

Last edited by madeleine; 10-04-2010 at 05:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to madeleine For This Useful Post:
  #11  
Old 10-04-2010, 07:08 PM
SuperDave's Avatar
SuperDave SuperDave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 11,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
Which RDI claim is easiest to prove?

PR/JR handled the weapons or sexually assaulted.
PR/JR wrote the ransom note or helped to write it.
PR/JR were motivated to hide prior abuse or rage.
PR/JR used words or actions that prove their guilt.

And how would you go about proving it?
To me this is two questions. As to which one is easiest to prove and how to go about it, I said Option Four. To prove it, just read their own words aloud and recount the actions that were taken and not taken.

As for the strongest evidence, I'd say Option Two. And to prove that, I'd just show those handwriting charts.
__________________
All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to SuperDave For This Useful Post:
  #12  
Old 10-05-2010, 02:52 PM
SheBoss SheBoss is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tupelo, MS
Posts: 153
I chose not to vote because I can't decide between the note and the behavior. I think I'm with Madeleine though, there's been way too many "expert" opinions on the forensics, but I've seen and read about the behavior with my own eyes and they act guilty. Innocent people have no reason to lie, withold evidence, CYA or in any other way hinder and investigation into their own daughter's death. Period.

Yes, LE screwed up. Certainly they did. But the Ramseys sure weren't jumping on the bandwagon to help straighten it out.
Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to SheBoss For This Useful Post:
  #13  
Old 10-06-2010, 09:33 PM
Chrishope Chrishope is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,802
The strongest evidence is that there is a dead body and a RN in the same house.
__________________
I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.
Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Chrishope For This Useful Post:
  #14  
Old 10-06-2010, 09:51 PM
txsvicki's Avatar
txsvicki txsvicki is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 14,082
I'd say, maybe, the note being written from a pad and pen still found in the home, and the detectives saying that there's no way Patsy could have just stepped over the ransom note (and left no fingerprints) due to the curve of the stairs. . The pineapple, or fruit, in the proximal small intestine might be a reason if I could ever read anything telling an actual timeline from an expert on digestion. It's always said that pineapple was in the stomach, but it wasn't.


I'm not sure about the fiber evidence, because of not knowing and remembering exactly what was said, and thinking that technology can't really prove it.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-09-2010, 04:19 PM
joeskidbeck's Avatar
joeskidbeck joeskidbeck is offline
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by txsvicki View Post
I'd say, maybe, the note being written from a pad and pen still found in the home, and the detectives saying that there's no way Patsy could have just stepped over the ransom note (and left no fingerprints) due to the curve of the stairs. . The pineapple, or fruit, in the proximal small intestine might be a reason if I could ever read anything telling an actual timeline from an expert on digestion. It's always said that pineapple was in the stomach, but it wasn't.


I'm not sure about the fiber evidence, because of not knowing and remembering exactly what was said, and thinking that technology can't really prove it.
Hey Vicki! I was reading a thread on FFJ yesterday about that very subject. One of the posters is an x-ray tech who has worked with the digestive system for like 40 years. I'll see if I can find it again for you.
Becky
__________________
"This Time We Get it Right!"

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to joeskidbeck For This Useful Post:
  #16  
Old 10-10-2010, 02:15 AM
Holdontoyourhat Holdontoyourhat is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrishope View Post
The strongest evidence is that there is a dead body and a RN in the same house.
You're right. Everything is right there in the house. And the parents were there too.

But wait...is there any evidence missing? Lets see:
  1. Blunt instrument. Nobody knows what it was or where it is.
  2. Cord roll from which the ligatures were freshly cut. Gone.
  3. Tape roll. Gone.
  4. Piece of paintbrush. Gone.
  5. Owner of foreign handwriting. Never matched.
  6. Owner of foreign DNA. Also, never matched.
  7. Pedophilia or rage. No evidence of pedophilia or rage.
So I guess there IS some stuff missing.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Holdontoyourhat For This Useful Post:
  #17  
Old 10-11-2010, 08:33 PM
DeeDee249 DeeDee249 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the Federal Witness Protection Program
Posts: 7,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
You're right. Everything is right there in the house. And the parents were there too.

But wait...is there any evidence missing? Lets see:
  1. Blunt instrument. Nobody knows what it was or where it is.
  2. Cord roll from which the ligatures were freshly cut. Gone.
  3. Tape roll. Gone.
  4. Piece of paintbrush. Gone.
  5. Owner of foreign handwriting. Never matched.
  6. Owner of foreign DNA. Also, never matched.
  7. Pedophilia or rage. No evidence of pedophilia or rage.
So I guess there IS some stuff missing.
Simply unbelievable...

Blunt instrument- there were THREE found in or near the house: a gof club (there were several in the house, a bat (found just outside, but Patsy said it LOOKED like one BR had and she said he had a few, the flashlight (to me, the likely choice because it was wiped inside (batteries) and out).

Remaining cord and tape ARE gone, if they existed, but there were so many opportunities to remove them from the home (including that very night) that alone can't be used as proof they did not come from the house.

We don't know that the paintbrush piece IS missing. It may very well be in evidence, and we haven't been told. Again, this, like the cord and tape, is a small item and easily fit in a pocket or purse.

Handwriting at this point has PR as the closest match. Nothing foreign about it. This was a native-born English speaker familiar with the family, and Americans who speak English are very capable of mentioning "beheading".

Owner of foreign DNA not matched. Correct. Doesn't mean he was the killer.

I'd day the vaginal abrasion, bleeding and bruising, eroded hymen mean sexual abuse-those who dispute the PREVIOUS abuse cannot in good conscience dispute the abuse that occurred that night. I'd say the skull cracked in half pretty much spells RAGE. Either she was hit (as the coroner thought: blunt force trauma) or she was slammed into a hard surface. NOT fell, not pushed.
__________________
THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.
Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to DeeDee249 For This Useful Post:
  #18  
Old 10-12-2010, 05:42 PM
UKGuy UKGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,389
The Strongest Evidence

http://www.acandyrose.com/01301997warrant.htm
Quote:
Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 26, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury consistent with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that is was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact.
This is evidence of acute molestation.

JonBenet Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation Chapt. 24. states:-
Quote:
In mid-September, a panel pediatric experts from around the country reached one of the major conclusions of the investigation - that JonBenet had suffered vaiginal trauma prior to the day she was killed
And JonBenet Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation Chapt. 32. states:-
Quote:
Detective Harmer presented a surprising anatomy lesson on vaginas to a meeting attended primarly for men. She showed a picture of the vagina of a normal healthy six-year-old girl and contrasted it with a photo of the vagina of jonBenet. Even to the uninformed the visual difference was apparent, and Harmer cited the experts who said there was evidence of chronic sexual abuse although the detectives referred to it only as 'prior vaginal trauma.'
This is evidence of chronic molestation.

The two together offer a direct motive for the Ramsey's to enact an intruder staging, not to explain away JonBenet's homicide since that is a done deal, no, its to mess up and hopefully mask the prior molestation. Thats the smoking gun!

No intruder needs to hide prior molestation, since this is staged as an abduction. Only someone with close access to JonBenet needs to obsfucate the crime-scene evidence, to divert the focus, that this was done tells us this person(s) was fully aware that JonBenet had been a victim of prior molestation.


.
Reply With Quote
The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to UKGuy For This Useful Post:
  #19  
Old 10-09-2010, 04:27 PM
joeskidbeck's Avatar
joeskidbeck joeskidbeck is offline
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,898
Ok, he is not an x-ray tech, he is a medical imaging tech. and his posts are very interesting indeed. Here is the link:

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...neapple&page=4

I should add that KoldKase gave me the link due to some questions I had about the pineapple.
Hope this helps you as much as it did me!
__________________
"This Time We Get it Right!"

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to joeskidbeck For This Useful Post:
  #20  
Old 10-14-2010, 09:46 PM
akashana's Avatar
akashana akashana is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 860
To me, the ransom note has always screamed "Patsy wrote me!" From the oddly-shaped lower q's to the Southernism, "Don't grow a brain," and the subtler points woven throughout the note, that to me has always been the most glaring piece of evidence.

This murder was in some ways like "The Perfect Storm" of homicides. From the bumbling rookie Boulder cops who bungled the initial crime scene, to the deluded investigators and thoroughly whipped DA's office, at all stages of the game was the prosecutorial ball dropped. If we weren't dealing with the heinous murder of an innocent child, it would be a comedy of errors. But we are, and it's no laughing matter. JonBenet Ramsey should be a beautiful young woman now, off on a fast-track career path, a new wife, perhaps even a young mother herself. But that sad little girl never got the chance to do any of those things because some blackhearted, sick-minded person stole that from her forever.

We can't bring the dead back to life, but we can refuse to be silent until justice is meted out. It's all that we can do for her anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-15-2010, 10:13 PM
Linda7NJ's Avatar
Linda7NJ Linda7NJ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 26,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by akashana View Post
To me, the ransom note has always screamed "Patsy wrote me!" From the oddly-shaped lower q's to the Southernism, "Don't grow a brain," and the subtler points woven throughout the note, that to me has always been the most glaring piece of evidence.

This murder was in some ways like "The Perfect Storm" of homicides. From the bumbling rookie Boulder cops who bungled the initial crime scene, to the deluded investigators and thoroughly whipped DA's office, at all stages of the game was the prosecutorial ball dropped. If we weren't dealing with the heinous murder of an innocent child, it would be a comedy of errors. But we are, and it's no laughing matter. JonBenet Ramsey should be a beautiful young woman now, off on a fast-track career path, a new wife, perhaps even a young mother herself. But that sad little girl never got the chance to do any of those things because some blackhearted, sick-minded person stole that from her forever.

We can't bring the dead back to life, but we can refuse to be silent until justice is meted out. It's all that we can do for her anymore.
I just had to say....this is a FANTASTIC POST! Thank you! ( just hitting the thanks button wasn't enough)
__________________


Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Linda7NJ For This Useful Post:
  #22  
Old 10-19-2010, 05:19 AM
californiared's Avatar
californiared californiared is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cali
Posts: 110
The ransom note sealed the deal for me. From a pen and pad of paper from the Ramsey house?!!! and it happens to look just like Patsys handwriting?? So IDI think that the "foreign fraction" broke in, forgot the ransom note, then proceeded to just write the longest and most absurd sounding ransom note of all time on the spot. Who does IDI think did it, the Three Stooges?? AND after all that they don't even bother actually taking JonBenet for money. It honestly just boggles my mind that people can read the ransom note and still believe IDI.
Reply With Quote
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to californiared For This Useful Post:
  #23  
Old 10-19-2010, 11:26 AM
Annie Maude Annie Maude is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 82
The note, the note! First and foremost. Try to go back and read it as though you had never read it before! Even if it weren't Patsy's handwriting, it is so obviously a deranged cover-up.
Reply With Quote
The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to Annie Maude For This Useful Post:
  #24  
Old 01-20-2011, 03:38 AM
qtc's Avatar
qtc qtc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 106
And how often does an intruder wait to write a RN at place of the kidnapping? And a long RN at that? If you are going to kidnap a child, wouldnt you want to get in and get out asap! And the author of the RN even started over a couple of times. Craziness!
Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to qtc For This Useful Post:
  #25  
Old 01-20-2011, 06:32 PM
horatio horatio is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 72
I agree, the note is the strongest RDI evidence, but also... who kidnaps someone on December 25/26??? IMO that is just as strong evidence as the RN is for an inside job. I'd love to see statistics on how many kidnapping/attempted kidnappings occur on those two days. I'd be willing to wager that it's SUPER rare.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to horatio For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RDI fiber evidence voynich JonBenet Ramsey 56 07-16-2009 07:34 AM
Scent Evidence ... Reliable Evidence Or Junk Science? Wudge Crimes in the News 2 07-13-2009 11:55 AM
Idi/rdi Truthful Lies Forum Finesse 2 07-23-2007 05:52 PM
RDI and IDI amordei JonBenet Ramsey 80 06-20-2006 05:17 PM


© Copyright Websleuths 1999-2012 New To Site? Need Help?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:26 AM.

Advertisements

Pre-Order Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony today!