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Lisa Irwin Missing! 10 mo old Lisa Irwin disappeared from her crib in the middle of the night. Where is she?


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Old 11-05-2011, 07:44 AM
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The Front Porch

Something has really bothered me as I've continued to try to come up with reasonable answers about this case. I started off in the beginning completely supporting DB, but as her story changed (via her own words) I fell harder with each change.

I now believe that baby Lisa was either found dead or died during the early evening, after JI went to work. I personally believe it was an accident of some kind, and by DB's hand.

I think that the entire night of sitting on the front stoop was so that as many people as possible would see her for hours on end, with a friend, and seeing her would provide her with an alibi. In looking at the difference between the front and back of the house, there is such an extreme contrast from front to back. What would be a logical reason that DB and SB would sit in the front vs the back. They have a nice deck that have chairs. Why sit on hard cement for hours on end.

Here is the difference between the front and back. What do you think?

Front porch:

Back deck:
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http://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-F...61183953929612
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
Something has really bothered me as I've continued to try to come up with reasonable answers about this case. I started off in the beginning completely supporting DB, but as her story changed (via her own words) I fell harder with each change.

I now believe that baby Lisa was either found dead or died during the early evening, after JI went to work. I personally believe it was an accident of some kind, and by DB's hand.

I think that the entire night of sitting on the front stoop was so that as many people as possible would see her for hours on end, with a friend, and seeing her would provide her with an alibi. In looking at the difference between the front and back of the house, there is such an extreme contrast from front to back. What would be a logical reason that DB and SB would sit in the front vs the back. They have a nice deck that have chairs. Why sit on hard cement for hours on end.

Here is the difference between the front and back. What do you think
It's possible. However. I think sometimes people like to socialize with neighbors in front of their houses. This neighborhood seems to have been a busy one, with a good bit of foot traffic. If you sit on the front porch, you can say hello and chat with anyone who walks by. I don't think where they were sitting is a big tell-tale clue. I think there were other potentially valid reasons reasons to sit there, than building an alibi.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:05 AM
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It's possible. However. I think sometimes people like to socialize with neighbors in front of their houses. This neighborhood seems to have been a busy one, with a good bit of foot traffic. If you sit on the front porch, you can say hello and chat with anyone who walks by. I don't think where they were sitting is a big tell-tale clue. I think there were other potentially valid reasons reasons to sit there, than building an alibi.
I agree here. It depends on why you're outside. Are you feeling social? Do you want to see other people, and be seen? I have a similar set up now, and did at my old house. While the deck was nice, it's very isolated. I would feel lonely sitting out there sometimes. In the evening, the deck was loaded with mosquitoes too. My legs would be covered in bites.

Out front, you could sit on the porch, and see people walk by. Neighbors out for their evening walks, taking their dogs for a walk. Kids will ride their bikes.

But I guess if we want to believe there is an ulterior motive on this evening, again it comes down to, why are they there? Are they there to be seen? If so, by who? As many neighbors as possible, in hopes of an alibi? Or is this a signal to another person involved?
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:09 AM
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Don't worry, in a couple of days the story will change to them sitting on the deck. Next month they will say they were sitting on the roof.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:14 AM
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Don't worry, in a couple of days the story will change to them sitting on the deck. Next month they will say they were sitting on the roof.
Hilarious ... I needed a good laugh to start the day ...

MOO ...
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:16 AM
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Don't worry, in a couple of days the story will change to them sitting on the deck. Next month they will say they were sitting on the roof.
Well the good news is LE checked the roof already and nothing was found or I should say, there is no indication anything was found. Maybe a couple of wine stains? lol
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:58 AM
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I'll have to dig up the timeline but JI supposedly left for work at about 5:30. Didn't DB and neighbour start drinking at around 7 - 7:30 after she put Lisa to bed?

How could she have disposed of the body in that time frame without a trace? Including cell phones (assuming they're still missing).
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:13 AM
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I'll have to dig up the timeline but JI supposedly left for work at about 5:30. Didn't DB and neighbour start drinking at around 7 - 7:30 after she put Lisa to bed?

How could she have disposed of the body in that time frame without a trace? Including cell phones (assuming they're still missing).
I've never heard anything about Lisa being up before 7 or 7:30. No mention of her having dinner with SB, the boys and SB's daughter. My understanding was that DB "last saw" Lisa at 6:40 when she supposedly checked on her and said that Lisa was standing up in her crib. But, of course this info came out AFTER she'd said she last saw Lisa when she checked on her at 7:30 and then finally when she checked on her at 10:30. Three different times she said she checked on Lisa.

I think that Lisa was either accidentally killed in trying to make her go to sleep because she wanted to get out of her crib and DB wanted to party.

I believe DB had a "Scarlett O'Hara" attitude in that she would think about it later, not knowing what she would do.

I do believe that DB had help disposing of Lisa. I think that the phone call that night plays a huge part in this.

I also could accept the fact that she wanted to socialize, so sat on the front porch, but I still think that she had more of a reason to be sitting there for hours, and it wasn't just to socialize with neighbors.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
I've never heard anything about Lisa being up before 7 or 7:30. No mention of her having dinner with SB, the boys and SB's daughter. My understanding was that DB "last saw" Lisa at 6:40 when she supposedly checked on her and said that Lisa was standing up in her crib. But, of course this info came out AFTER she'd said she last saw Lisa when she checked on her at 7:30 and then finally when she checked on her at 10:30. Three different times she said she checked on Lisa.

I think that Lisa was either accidentally killed in trying to make her go to sleep because she wanted to get out of her crib and DB wanted to party.

I believe DB had a "Scarlett O'Hara" attitude in that she would think about it later, not knowing what she would do.

I do believe that DB had help disposing of Lisa. I think that the phone call that night plays a huge part in this.

I also could accept the fact that she wanted to socialize, so sat on the front porch, but I still think that she had more of a reason to be sitting there for hours, and it wasn't just to socialize with neighbors.
So in your theory, if I understand correctly, DB overdosed Lisa, Lisa died within a half hour, DB takes Lisa and places her dead body on the floor next to her bed, goes outside to socialize and gets drunk, comes back in, calls whoever to come help dispose of the body and then rushes home by 3:30 or whatever time JI got home. Leaves all the lights on and window open and front door unlocked.

Is that it?
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:33 AM
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So in your theory, if I understand correctly, DB overdosed Lisa, Lisa died within a half hour, DB takes Lisa and places her dead body on the floor next to her bed, goes outside to socialize and gets drunk, comes back in, calls whoever to come help dispose of the body and then rushes home by 3:30 or whatever time JI got home. Leaves all the lights on and window open and front door unlocked.

Is that it?
Nope.... not even close. My theory is that DB either overdosed her or became angered in her standing in her crib and either shook her or threw her down hard in her crib, possibly breaking her neck or hitting her head.

I think that either Lisa was taken into DB's bedroom and put on the floor by the bed, possibly under a bunched up blanket or quilt and then locked her bedroom door so the kids couldn't get in. Most master bedrooms lock...I wonder if theirs did? I don't think Lisa was taken out of DB's room until her other little boy came into the bedroom and fell asleep. By this time, DB had already arranged for help OR, simply taken care of it herself. I do believe that she had help, not sure exactly who it is, but I still could see her doing it herself. That river is deep, fast moving and muddy.

But, the last part is pretty close. I think that she lost track of time being drunk (although I think she is a functioning drunk) and this is why the lights were all on. I think that she ran to her bed and pretended to be asleep when JI returned home.
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Please help identify the unidentified photos found in the storage locker of serial killer, Rodney Alcala.

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Old 11-05-2011, 09:13 AM
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Nope.... not even close. My theory is that DB either overdosed her or became angered in her standing in her crib and either shook her or threw her down hard in her crib, possibly breaking her neck or hitting her head.

I think that either Lisa was taken into DB's bedroom and put on the floor by the bed, possibly under a bunched up blanket or quilt and then locked her bedroom door so the kids couldn't get in. Most master bedrooms lock...I wonder if theirs did? I don't think Lisa was taken out of DB's room until her other little boy came into the bedroom and fell asleep. By this time, DB had already arranged for help OR, simply taken care of it herself. I do believe that she had help, not sure exactly who it is, but I still could see her doing it herself. That river is deep, fast moving and muddy.

But, the last part is pretty close. I think that she lost track of time being drunk (although I think she is a functioning drunk) and this is why the lights were all on. I think that she ran to her bed and pretended to be asleep when JI returned home.
This is how I think it went down too. I'm not so sure she had help, but I think it was all DB who did something to Lisa.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:04 AM
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Nope.... not even close. My theory is that DB either overdosed her or became angered in her standing in her crib and either shook her or threw her down hard in her crib, possibly breaking her neck or hitting her head.

I think that either Lisa was taken into DB's bedroom and put on the floor by the bed, possibly under a bunched up blanket or quilt and then locked her bedroom door so the kids couldn't get in. Most master bedrooms lock...I wonder if theirs did? I don't think Lisa was taken out of DB's room until her other little boy came into the bedroom and fell asleep. By this time, DB had already arranged for help OR, simply taken care of it herself. I do believe that she had help, not sure exactly who it is, but I still could see her doing it herself. That river is deep, fast moving and muddy.

But, the last part is pretty close. I think that she lost track of time being drunk (although I think she is a functioning drunk) and this is why the lights were all on. I think that she ran to her bed and pretended to be asleep when JI returned home.
The only prob I have with that is Jeremy was supposed to be home around 10'ish. He never called DB to tell her he was gonna be late, so she would still assume he was gonna be home. One would assume DB would want to get rid of any body before that time frame. If she left the home after the neighbor did (at 10:30) she would risk Jeremy coming home any minute and her cover would be blown.

Thoughts?

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Old 11-05-2011, 11:36 AM
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Nope.... not even close. My theory is that DB either overdosed her or became angered in her standing in her crib and either shook her or threw her down hard in her crib, possibly breaking her neck or hitting her head.

I think that either Lisa was taken into DB's bedroom and put on the floor by the bed, possibly under a bunched up blanket or quilt and then locked her bedroom door so the kids couldn't get in. Most master bedrooms lock...I wonder if theirs did? I don't think Lisa was taken out of DB's room until her other little boy came into the bedroom and fell asleep. By this time, DB had already arranged for help OR, simply taken care of it herself. I do believe that she had help, not sure exactly who it is, but I still could see her doing it herself. That river is deep, fast moving and muddy.

But, the last part is pretty close. I think that she lost track of time being drunk (although I think she is a functioning drunk) and this is why the lights were all on. I think that she ran to her bed and pretended to be asleep when JI returned home.
She was expecting JI MUCH earlier and since he hadn't called home to say he would be later, she would have been taking quite a chance no?
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
Nope.... not even close. My theory is that DB either overdosed her or became angered in her standing in her crib and either shook her or threw her down hard in her crib, possibly breaking her neck or hitting her head.

I think that either Lisa was taken into DB's bedroom and put on the floor by the bed, possibly under a bunched up blanket or quilt and then locked her bedroom door so the kids couldn't get in. Most master bedrooms lock...I wonder if theirs did? I don't think Lisa was taken out of DB's room until her other little boy came into the bedroom and fell asleep. By this time, DB had already arranged for help OR, simply taken care of it herself. I do believe that she had help, not sure exactly who it is, but I still could see her doing it herself. That river is deep, fast moving and muddy.

But, the last part is pretty close. I think that she lost track of time being drunk (although I think she is a functioning drunk) and this is why the lights were all on. I think that she ran to her bed and pretended to be asleep when JI returned home.

Your theory is IDENTICAL to mine. I thought I wrote this myself.. Kudos..
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:39 AM
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im guessing the weather on the night of oct 3rd wasnt cold? as DB and SB (and possibly PN) sat on the front porch.

i have 2 small kids and if i wanted to have a few drinks with a friend (not getting totally smashed) on a fairly nice night i would sit in my back garden and the children could play in the yard and i know they would be safe from traffic etc i wonder why they decided to keep the boys and the neighbors daughter inside watching a movie,but i dont believe 3 children stayed in that room for 4hours no way in heck IMO the older one it would be possible but i think he would even get bored after 4hours and want to go explore and see where mommy is.

now norest4thewicked that is a pretty good theory IMO i think the street i live on is similar to this one in the way of volumes of traffic,neighbors out and about and people walking by etc and i wouldn't be sitting on my front steps unless i was waiting on someone coming by or wanting to be seen.even if i'm just going outside for a quick smoke i always go to the back porch.

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Old 11-05-2011, 08:12 AM
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Something has really bothered me as I've continued to try to come up with reasonable answers about this case.

I think that the entire night of sitting on the front stoop was so that as many people as possible would see her for hours on end, with a friend, and seeing her would provide her with an alibi. In looking at the difference between the front and back of the house, there is such an extreme contrast from front to back. What would be a logical reason that DB and SB would sit in the front vs the back. They have a nice deck that have chairs. Why sit on hard cement for hours on end.

Snipped for Space and BBM:

Interesting Theory ... Here's my :

IF I wanted to have a "private party" I would sit out in the back of the yard, on some lounge chairs on the deck ...

IF I wanted to be "seen" I would sit on the front porch or "stoop" ...

IF I wanted to "know" who was "out and about" in the neighborhood, I would sit on the front porch ...

I would like to know if "sitting out on the front porch" was something that DB did on a "regular basis" -- or was it just the night of October 3 -- the night Baby Lisa went "missing" ...

MOO ...
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:18 AM
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Well, first off having two young boys playing I would sit on the front porch for safety reasons. They sat on the front porch because ... MW's husband had been told to leave the house temporally for separation purposes and I am sure that she wanted to be out front in case he came home for one reason or another. Second I am thinking that deborah didn't want to miss any action out front. (she has that look) just sayin. I would sit on the back porch early in the morning with coffee,or late with my hubby. If I am outside with neighbor having probs then I'd sit on front porch.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:19 AM
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I'm not reading anything into where they chose to sit and socialise that evening, a few of my neighbours who have beautifully landscaped, comfortably furnished backyards still choose to sit out front in the evening and chat to passers-by. We prefer to sit in the back so do our next door neighbours who have small children they don't want running out onto the street. Horses for courses.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:32 AM
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Surprisingly, this is one part of the story that doesn't bother me! We have a very nice back patio with a screened-in pool, so "logic" would dictate that I would hang out with my neighbors/friends back there. Rarely does this happen. Instead, we will hang out in the front. I've never really given it much thought, but I suppose it is because we like to chat with any neighbors that might be out and about. The back is used more often for private gatherings where there are multiple friends attending.

I agree, though, that if DB wanted to establish an alibi, that would be a good way to do it.

MOO
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:37 AM
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Surprisingly, this is one part of the story that doesn't bother me! We have a very nice back patio with a screened-in pool, so "logic" would dictate that I would hang out with my neighbors/friends back there. Rarely does this happen. Instead, we will hang out in the front. I've never really given it much thought, but I suppose it is because we like to chat with any neighbors that might be out and about. The back is used more often for private gatherings where there are multiple friends attending.

I agree, though, that if DB wanted to establish an alibi, that would be a good way to do it.

MOO
I have a very similar home situation and agree to some extent. However, for those saying that they would sit in front at their homes, honestly, would you sit for hours on a tiny cement porch? I would bet that most of you with the big back deck don't have a tiny cement porch to sit on. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. I just feel that there is more to it than just the socializing.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:53 AM
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I have a very similar home situation and agree to some extent. However, for those saying that they would sit in front at their homes, honestly, would you sit for hours on a tiny cement porch? I would bet that most of you with the big back deck don't have a tiny cement porch to sit on. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. I just feel that there is more to it than just the socializing.
Where are you speculating that they sat? On the steps in front or the patio area to the left? The patio area looks more than big enough for two people.
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:00 AM
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Where are you speculating that they sat? On the steps in front or the patio area to the left? The patio area looks more than big enough for two people.
It has been verified that they sat on the tiny steps/porch on the front of the house rather than in the back on the big deck with chairs. And, yes the little cement area would fit two people, but I just think that their being there serves more than the purpose of watching SB's house or visiting with people. Nothing really to prove here...it's just a bit curious to me.
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:05 AM
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It has been verified that they sat on the tiny steps/porch on the front of the house rather than in the back on the big deck with chairs. And, yes the little cement area would fit two people, but I just think that their being there serves more than the purpose of watching SB's house or visiting with people. Nothing really to prove here...it's just a bit curious to me.
it just looks so uncomfortable to me and DBs not the smallest of woman (not being mean or anything just saying what i see) so i imagine with 2 people on the steps it would be pretty cramped which for me would make me enjoy my "adult" time less enjoyable. i have to agree with you here,i think they wanted to be seen or were waiting for someone to pass by or something like that
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:12 AM
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It has been verified that they sat on the tiny steps/porch on the front of the house rather than in the back on the big deck with chairs. And, yes the little cement area would fit two people, but I just think that their being there serves more than the purpose of watching SB's house or visiting with people. Nothing really to prove here...it's just a bit curious to me.
I didn't realize that it was verified that they sat on the steps. The only thing I heard was they sat on the front "stoop" which could include the area to the left (at least where I live). It had to be very uncomfortable for them to both sit on the steps.
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:22 AM
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Cazzie Cazzie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
It has been verified that they sat on the tiny steps/porch on the front of the house rather than in the back on the big deck with chairs. And, yes the little cement area would fit two people, but I just think that their being there serves more than the purpose of watching SB's house or visiting with people. Nothing really to prove here...it's just a bit curious to me.
Verified how and by whom? (other than DB)

Just askin'.

Last edited by Cazzie; 11-05-2011 at 11:05 AM. Reason: just DB, not SB too
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