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George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion threads All closed discussion threads about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin.Not open for posting- but there is plenty of reading.


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  #1  
Old 04-03-2012, 05:26 PM
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17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

Please continue here.

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Please stick with the facts as reported by LE or MSM, and link them. Link them often if necessary.

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We need to stick to the facts of this case and that's our discussion here. Please, we ask that you do what you do best - SLEUTH THE CASE.

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Clairfication on WS stance regarding the "victim friendly" issue.

I had a discussion with the owners about how we were to deal with this. This is what I was advised:

At this point in the investigation we don't KNOW exactly who ALL the victims are now. We KNOW that Trayvon is a victim, because he is dead. However, news breaks and new leaks come forth everyday and it is still unclear whether Zimmerman was a victim of any violence. Until more verifiable FACTS are available, WS has chosen to err on the side of treating both the confirmed (Trayvon) AND potential (Zimmerman) victim, both as victims.

Like I said, that may change after we have more verifiable information

Hope that helps clear this up.

Please bump as needed.



WS does not permit links that request or suggest sending donations without the clear permission of the owners . This is to protect our members and for no other reason.
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Last edited by ynotdivein; 04-03-2012 at 08:30 PM. Reason: improve readability (i hope!)
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:32 PM
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...6.story?page=1

Tracy Martin had been looking for his son Trayvon since the night before.

An attorney herself, she knew whom to call: Benjamin Crump, the state's best-known civil rights attorney, based in Tallahassee. Crump and law partner Daryl Parks had previously gained renown representing the family of a black teenager who died in a boot-camp-style youth detention center in 2006, winning the boy's family $7.2 million in damages from the state of Florida and Bay County.

Now Crump and Jackson needed a media strategy. On March 5, Jackson brought in Ryan Julison, a publicist who had worked with her on a number of high-profile cases. After speaking with Tracy Martin, Julison said he also took the job for free and went to work pitching the story to national media.

Crump knew from his experience on the boot-camp case that publicity could force officials to act, but it would require persuading two people who had never stood before a television camera to withstand the spotlight.

"I got on the phone with Tracy Martin and I told him, ‘It's not going to be any fun, but this is the only way to find justice,'" Julison said. "You are going to have to bare your soul and express your emotions and your inner grief." Martin and Fulton agreed. There was only one problem. At first, the media weren't interested. Julison pitched the story to a long list of media contacts.

Eventually, on March 7, Reuters published a story titled "Family of Florida Boy Killed by Neighborhood Watch Seeks Arrest." The next day, CBS News aired a segment on "This Morning," and by 10 a.m. a crowd of reporters gathered at Natalie Jackson's law office for a news conference with Ben Crump and Tracy Martin. A media firestorm had begun.

The article is three pages long.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by iluvmua View Post
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...6.story?page=1

Tracy Martin had been looking for his son Trayvon since the night before.An attorney herself, she knew whom to call: Benjamin Crump, the state's best-known civil rights attorney, based in Tallahassee. Crump and law partner Daryl Parks had previously gained renown representing the family of a black teenager who died in a boot-camp-style youth detention center in 2006, winning the boy's family $7.2 million in damages from the state of Florida and Bay County.

Now Crump and Jackson needed a media strategy. On March 5, Jackson brought in Ryan Julison, a publicist who had worked with her on a number of high-profile cases. After speaking with Tracy Martin, Julison said he also took the job for free and went to work pitching the story to national media.

Crump knew from his experience on the boot-camp case that publicity could force officials to act, but it would require persuading two people who had never stood before a television camera to withstand the spotlight.

"I got on the phone with Tracy Martin and I told him, ‘It's not going to be any fun, but this is the only way to find justice,'" Julison said. "You are going to have to bare your soul and express your emotions and your inner grief." Martin and Fulton agreed. There was only one problem. At first, the media weren't interested. Julison pitched the story to a long list of media contacts.

Eventually, on March 7, Reuters published a story titled "Family of Florida Boy Killed by Neighborhood Watch Seeks Arrest." The next day, CBS News aired a segment on "This Morning," and by 10 a.m. a crowd of reporters gathered at Natalie Jackson's law office for a news conference with Ben Crump and Tracy Martin. A media firestorm had begun.

The article is three pages long.
BBM
The father said that he thought he went with to the movies with a cousin,
so he did not worry why he was not home, and he fell asleep.
NO he did not look for him that night.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvmua View Post
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...6.story?page=1

Tracy Martin had been looking for his son Trayvon since the night before.

An attorney herself, she knew whom to call: Benjamin Crump, the state's best-known civil rights attorney, based in Tallahassee. Crump and law partner Daryl Parks had previously gained renown representing the family of a black teenager who died in a boot-camp-style youth detention center in 2006, winning the boy's family $7.2 million in damages from the state of Florida and Bay County.

Now Crump and Jackson needed a media strategy. On March 5, Jackson brought in Ryan Julison, a publicist who had worked with her on a number of high-profile cases. After speaking with Tracy Martin, Julison said he also took the job for free and went to work pitching the story to national media.

Crump knew from his experience on the boot-camp case that publicity could force officials to act, but it would require persuading two people who had never stood before a television camera to withstand the spotlight.

"I got on the phone with Tracy Martin and I told him, ‘It's not going to be any fun, but this is the only way to find justice,'" Julison said. "You are going to have to bare your soul and express your emotions and your inner grief." Martin and Fulton agreed. There was only one problem. At first, the media weren't interested. Julison pitched the story to a long list of media contacts.

Eventually, on March 7, Reuters published a story titled "Family of Florida Boy Killed by Neighborhood Watch Seeks Arrest." The next day, CBS News aired a segment on "This Morning," and by 10 a.m. a crowd of reporters gathered at Natalie Jackson's law office for a news conference with Ben Crump and Tracy Martin. A media firestorm had begun.

The article is three pages long.
I find this part very interesting. I presume that the re enactment was post that 8.00 am time on the same day. Wonder why Mr Martin was not invited but GZ's daddy was. Am sure Mr Martin would have been very interested instead of that loaded verbal account from the detective..

"Instead of one squad car with his son in the backseat, three vehicles pulled up: a police cruiser, an unmarked sedan and another official-looking car. Martin would discover the third car belonged to a chaplain.

It was not yet 8 in the morning, barely 12 hours since the shooting that took place about 100 yards away, and Martin was still unaware of the fate of his son."
  #5  
Old 04-03-2012, 06:12 PM
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I find this part very interesting. I presume that the re enactment was post that 8.00 am time on the same day. Wonder why Mr Martin was not invited but GZ's daddy was. Am sure Mr Martin would have been very interested instead of that loaded verbal account from the detective..

"Instead of one squad car with his son in the backseat, three vehicles pulled up: a police cruiser, an unmarked sedan and another official-looking car. Martin would discover the third car belonged to a chaplain.

It was not yet 8 in the morning, barely 12 hours since the shooting that took place about 100 yards away, and Martin was still unaware of the fate of his son."
It's possible he called LE first to ask about TM because he heard about there being trouble out in the back the night before. jmo
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by iluvmua View Post
Then why do they have a foundation?
Why does Mark Klass have a foundation? Why does Tim Miller have a foundation? Why does anyone who has ever lost a child have a foundation? To take the death of their children and do something in their memory.

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  #7  
Old 04-03-2012, 05:51 PM
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Why does Mark Klass have a foundation? Why does Tim Miller have a foundation? Why does anyone who has ever lost a child have a foundation? To take the death of their children and do something in their memory.

MOO
Laci Peterson Foundation
The Natalee Holloway Foundation
Carole Sund Foundation
The Jennifer Kesse Trust
  #8  
Old 04-03-2012, 06:35 PM
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Im at a loss. How is it ok to say some of the things being said. im so sad. How disappointing
You know, belle3, I'm not sure why this is happening but I guess some feel that when certain information is released, or someone is discussing a certain point, that they have to come back with a negative counteroffer. Now not having much on the deceased victim, ends up as if the family had done something to deserve this....they want money, they're claiming race, they should have been stricter and kept TM in the house, they were uncaring because they failed to keep calling him 20 times that night, they went to bed thinking he was at the movies when he wasn't....and on, and on.

I guess it's a defensive response when you feel that you have to blame someone else when the information is just not to your liking or you really just want to believe your point of view is right.

But you are right, we should not have to make up things about either of the parents/families and present it as a fact because we do not know. The Martin's have lost a child, the Zimmerman's want to protect their's. jmo
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by belle3 View Post
I understand what you are saying. It makes it easier to understand gz frame of mind. Thats for sure.
I don't believe in censorship. I think everyone should have a right to say what's on their mind? I don't have to agree with it and sometimes I find it to be outright disgusting, but I'd rather know, then not know... know what I'm saying?
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:12 PM
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I don't believe in censorship. I think everyone should have a right to say what's on their mind? I don't have to agree with it and sometimes I find it to be outright disgusting, but I'd rather know, then not know... know what I'm saying?
I know what you mean, and I agree! "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it"
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:44 PM
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Then why do they have a foundation?
Oh, I know this one. Attorneys, attorneys....they get their money regardless. Takes money to get people to listen to you because it's not like TM was missing for 31 days and the media was going to pay attention. jmo
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:50 PM
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Oh, I know this one. Attorneys, attorneys....they get their money regardless. Takes money to get people to listen to you because it's not like TM was missing for 31 days and the media was going to pay attention. jmo
I applaud the Martins, Mr. Crump and all of Trayvon's supporters for putting together their media plan. Had they not done that, this case would go on the dump-heap of history which so many cases involving people of color do. People cry about the demonstrators and agitators, if it was not for them, this case would be treated exactly the way SPD treated it in the first hours. A dead Black kid, who cares? It's sad, but that's the only way to get justice.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:01 PM
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I applaud the Martins, Mr. Crump and all of Trayvon's supporters for putting together their media plan. Had they not done that, this case would go on the dump-heap of history which so many cases involving people of color do. People cry about the demonstrators and agitators, if it was not for them, this case would be treated exactly the way SPD treated it in the first hours. A dead Black kid, who cares? It's sad, but that's the only way to get justice.
I applaud my fellow American citizens, of all races, who are standing side by side with the Martin Family. I feel a great sense of pride when I see all the rally's and marches and so many people have shown up to support them.

I do think race had a role in this case. I think if Trayvon had been white, there would have been an arrest. If Trayvon would have been the son of a Police Officer, George Zimmerman would have never walked out of that police station that night. It's sad, but true... and a lot of my fellow American's see it too and it is not something that should be ignored.

MOO
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:23 PM
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I also think they have already

done so much good by being such dignified and respectful representatives of their son. They are not screaming for blood but instead demanding justice, for the system to work as it should have. It is beyond clear to most people of good will that this was a coverup in the making and that absent the public attention the family was able to garner NOTHING more would have ever been heard or said about this case. I applaud them for being smart and savvy enought to call on Mr. Crump-I can't express enough how they did EXACTLY the right thing.

I would like to believe race didn't play a role here. But that wouldn't be true or consistent with the evidence, whether GZ's assumtions about the black boy up to no good or the police on the scene's assumptions about who TM was, certainly not a lawful resident of the complex but just some John Doe with a toe tag in the morgue, shot dead and left to be forgotten.

I hope that this case and the family foundation change things over time so that this type of tragedy is much less likely to happen. How anyone can disparage these poor people is beyond my comprehension. Yet, I continue to read the vilest suggestions about this victim and his family in every forum and I see just how far we have yet to go until justice is color blind in this country.

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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I applaud my fellow American citizens, of all races, who are standing side by side with the Martin Family. I feel a great sense of pride when I see all the rally's and marches and so many people have shown up to support them.

I do think race had a role in this case. I think if Trayvon had been white, there would have been an arrest. If Trayvon would have been the son of a Police Officer, George Zimmerman would have never walked out of that police station that night. It's sad, but true... and a lot of my fellow American's see it too and it is not something that should be ignored.

MOO
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  #15  
Old 04-03-2012, 05:32 PM
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I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

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Last edited by ynotdivein; 04-03-2012 at 08:46 PM. Reason: references snipped post
  #16  
Old 04-03-2012, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

I agree, but now it looks like they will get a few million by the time they are done with this.
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Last edited by ynotdivein; 04-03-2012 at 08:46 PM. Reason: quotes snipped post responsive to earlier deleted post
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:40 PM
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I agree, but now it looks like they will get a few million by the time they are done with it all.
Yes, I am sure they will do good things with that money too. Their children are going to need counseling. They are going to need counseling. I have a feeling we will hear about Trayvon's parents for years to come doing good things for their community. They seem like lovely people who have had to endure what no parent ever should have to endure. I do not believe they are going to allow Trayvon's death to be in vain.

MOO
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:41 PM
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I agree, but now it looks like they will get a few million by the time they are done with this.
Well, people do buy insurance for that very reason. If they want to file a wrongful death suit, I say they are entitled. Or do I have that all wrong because TM was on suspension from school that night???? jmo
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:44 PM
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Well, people do buy insurance for that very reason. If they want to file a wrongful death suit, I say they are entitled. Or do I have that all wrong because TM was on suspension from school that night???? jmo

I do not have a clue about insurance for wrongful death.
I just know that given the situation at hand, they will be making a lot of money. I do not blame them, but they will.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:57 PM
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I do not have a clue about insurance for wrongful death.
I just know that given the situation at hand, they will be making a lot of money. I do not blame them, but they will.
Life insurance is payment for a death. Wrongful death suits are for the victim's family. Insurance policies to cover wrongful death claims would be covered under some type of liability insurance. jmo
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

If they wanted money they would have hired Jose. jmo
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

Plus there's no evidence to support that assertion.

(Aren't Trayvon's parents considered victims at this point?)

Last edited by ynotdivein; 04-03-2012 at 08:48 PM. Reason: quoted snipped post
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

I agree. Under our system, punitive damages in a civil suit may be the ONLY form of justice available to survivors when there is a wrongful death.

If they choose to sue, TM's family will be obeying the law. That's supposed to be a good thing. The alternative would be buying a gun and going after GZ themselves. Surely we can all agree THAT would be wrong.

Last edited by ynotdivein; 04-03-2012 at 08:51 PM. Reason: quoted snipped post
  #24  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:21 PM
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I agree. Under our system, punitive damages in a civil suit may be the ONLY form of justice available to survivors when there is a wrongful death.

If they choose to sue, TM's family will be obeying the law. That's supposed to be a good thing. The alternative would be buying a gun and going after GZ themselves. Surely we can all agree THAT would be wrong.
BBM. This was the only option for me and my kids. Thank goodness I filed that suit and won. Several things I accomplished by filing that suit. I got the truth. If I did not file the lawsuit, I would never have known why my husband died. Because I filed the lawsuit changes were made and others will not die like my husband did. So anyone who thinks that lawsuits are a bad thing, only about the money, and reflect badly on the plaintiff are flat out wrong. They owe thanks to people who file lawsuits. Their cars are safer, their medicines are safer, houses are safer, etc. You hurt someone in the pocketbook and they pay attention to you and change the way they do things. That's why we have punitive damages. It is for punishment. They can be huge dollar amounts. The deeper the pockets the bigger the award. It sends a message that the bad behavior better stop and better not happen again.
  #25  
Old 04-03-2012, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
I'm sure if you would ask Trayvon's parents if they would like their son back or a million dollars... they would pick their son.

ETA: If they just wanted money, they would quietly sue the HOA and Zimmerman. Instead they are reaching out to any and everyone to help them get Justice for their son.

ITA


*Sigh*
I remain disgusted at those whose choose to blame and criticize and trash TM's family. It's abhorrent heartless, ignorant, cruel behavior. IMO.

I personally know I'd give anything and everything I had to give to get my murdered child back. I suspect the Martin family feels the same.

I think a huge helping of COMPASSION is in order.
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Last edited by ynotdivein; 04-03-2012 at 08:54 PM. Reason: quoted/responded to snipped post
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