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Old 05-14-2012, 10:47 PM
JBean JBean is offline
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FBI considering hate crime charges against Zimmerman #1

SANFORD, Fla. —
WFTV has learned charges against George Zimmerman could be getting more serious.
State prosecutors said Zimmerman, a neighborhood watchman, profiled and stalked 17-year-old Trayvon Martin before killing him, so the FBI is now looking into charging him with a hate crime.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...e-crime/nN5pR/
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:00 PM
suspicious1 suspicious1 is offline
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And I think they should.....

I am one who believes and have believed since the beginning that GZ said 'coons' and not 'punks'.

Wouldn't the hate crime have something to do with that?
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:03 PM
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I am SOOOO happy to see this! I believe wholeheartedly that GZ said "co*ns" and not punks.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:59 PM
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I don't see anything in that article to suggest that this is actually new information.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
I don't see anything in that article to suggest that this is actually new information.
It isn't. The fact that it is month-and-a-half old news was discussed in another thread, with a link. I know I've commented on it a bunch of times in the context of the State not filing its own hate crime charges, even though Fla. has a statute, and using the word "punks" in the affidavit instead of the slur. Can't imagine why they decided to regurgitate it today.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
It isn't. The fact that it is month-and-a-half old news was discussed in another thread, with a link. I know I've commented on it a bunch of times in the context of the State not filing its own hate crime charges, even though Fla. has a statute, and using the word "punks" in the affidavit instead of the slur. Can't imagine why they decided to regurgitate it today.
One line buried in an ABC article from today: "Zimmerman is also the subject of an FBI investigation into a possible hate crime committed against 17-year-old Martin."
ABC Link
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
I don't see anything in that article to suggest that this is actually new information.
The date?
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
I don't see anything in that article to suggest that this is actually new information.
Perhaps since it is being touted as breaking news all over-- I assumed ( and possibly erroneously) that originally the talk of hate crimes was just idle speculation; this sounds as though it is confirming the original suspicion and the FBI actually is looking at this in that light.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:19 AM
Karmady Karmady is offline
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Originally Posted by HiHater View Post
I am SOOOO happy to see this! I believe wholeheartedly that GZ said "co*ns" and not punks.
The probable cause affidavit says punks. They will not by saying that the other word was said.

Last edited by Karmady; 05-15-2012 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:34 AM
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I doubt WFTV would simply run an old article again, with Bill Shaeffer making the comments again. Seems like something must be up with the Feds? Guess we shall see. If BS said these things today, something is coming up with the hate crime charges. He is pretty, spot on. IMO.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
The probably cause affidavit says punks. They will not by saying that the other word was said.
The Feds run a complete, separate, investigation. They do not care what the State has in their affidavit. If they thought they heard the other word, that is what they will go with. They charge according to their investigation, has nothing to do with the State's investigation.

JMO
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by AngelWings444 View Post
The Feds run a complete, separate, investigation. They do not care what the State has in their affidavit. If they thought they heard the other word, that is what they will go with. They charge according to their investigation, has nothing to do with the State's investigation.

JMO
My point is, the State wouldn't have locked themselves in to punks if there was any chance that the other word was said. No reason at all to do that.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
The probable cause affidavit says punks. They will not by saying that the other word was said.
BBM
I really don't think any of us can make this determination.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HiHater View Post
I am SOOOO happy to see this! I believe wholeheartedly that GZ said "co*ns" and not punks.
It's always seemed weird to me that anyone would hear "co*ns" as the words aren't really close. The middle "un" section is especially clear and very different from an "oo" sound.

Last edited by Alecto; 05-15-2012 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Alecto View Post
It's always seemed weird to me that anyone would hear "co*ns" as the words aren't really close. The middle "un" section is especially clear and very different from an "oo" sound.
I did not hear an "un" sound and even more importantly, I did not hear a "K" sound at the end. I don't know why it would be weird, though...
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by HiHater View Post
I did not hear an "un" sound and even more importantly, I did not hear a "K" sound at the end. I don't know why it would be weird, though...
Here's the thing about audio recordings. First a little background, followed by a short story. For many years I did "paranormal investigating" where we would capture these pesky little things called "EVPs" or Electronic Voice Phenomena, where "voices" from "no where" were recorded. I was the skeptic and technician in my group, which is why I'm no longer with them - I was a bit too skeptical. I did some tests with my group one night. As we were "investigating" a cemetery I went off with my cousin and he made some strange nonsensical whispers into my audio recorder. Later that night when we were going over the "evidence" we would let someone else listen to what we got on our recorder. Ashley listened to my tape and she heard the word "boondoggle," which is an odd word in itself. When she heard it she told the other investigators "I just heard the word boondoggle, come listen!" and through the power of suggestion everyone else heard the word "boondoggle" except one person. That one other person did not hear the exclamation about the word because they were out of the room. When they heard it they thought the word was "froglegs." This was really odd considering it was a nonsensical whisper.

The moral of the story above is that if someone tells you "it's possibly the word goons" you're probably going to hear the word "goons." If you listen to it without a suggestion as to what it is you may come up with something completely different. When I first heard this 911 tape I thought it was a nonsensical word, maybe slang I hadn't heard before.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:07 AM
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<modsnip>

I totally disagree with your premise but the question to me is really what will be the basis of any hate crime charge against GZ?

I think it will be more based on how GZ targeted Trayvon as suspicious and 'up to no good', 'on drugs', etc., simply because he did not know him from the neighborhood and he was black. Then he took the steps he did to follow and interfere with Trayvon's very innocent walk to his temporary home, making no attempt to identify himself or explain why he was following, and to ask in a civil and non-threatening way, who TM was and where he was going. These steps GZ took based on his incorrect profiling of TM led to the confrontation and unnecessary death.

Last edited by ynotdivein; 05-16-2012 at 09:56 PM. Reason: quoted snipped post
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:23 PM
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<modsnip>

Hearing can be surprisingly subjective and everyone will mishear things sometimes, and it is hard to make out what he says exactly, but I honestly think if one were to do a research experiment with hundred people who knew nothing about the case after hearing the audio not one of them would say it was co*ns. Is there anyone who didn't already think GZ was guilty when they heard it?

Last edited by ynotdivein; 05-16-2012 at 09:58 PM. Reason: quoted snipped post
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:28 AM
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911 tape or not, I highly doubt the FBI will go for a hate crimes charge on just that, or his profiling.

For what it's worth, despite all the negative things I have said about Zimmerman, I don't have any particular reason to believe that he was a racist. His fans and many of his defenders? No question. The police who were supposed to investigate? No question in my mind. But Zimmerman? Who knows.

Personally, as I have said from the beginning, after listening to the 9-11 call I believe Zimmerman was not the nobel watchmen some are making him out to be. I believe that virtually everything he described in the call was a lie. I believe he was setting up his alibi for the shoot, and that he fully intended to gun the kid down right there on the street -- only Trayvon ran before his justified shoot could happen. I believe he targetted Trayvon, not because he personally hates blacks, but because he believed that the Sanford police wouldn't bother to investigate a dead black kid. And, as it turns out, he was correct.

All that is just my opinion. However, it is not invented out of whole cloth. Zimmerman went through that call like a pilot checking off a pre-flight checklist. One thing after another, in a steady escalation of perceived threat.

He establishes the reasons for his suspicions
He states that Trayvon is on drugs
He states Trayvon is messed up, something is DEFINATELY wrong with him
He states Trayvon is looking at him
He states Trayvon is heading his way
He states Trayvon has his hands in his waistband
He states Trayvon has something in his hands and he doesn't know what it is!
He begs them to send help quickly

Then Trayvon runs. This guy, who George has painted as a menacing gangbanger with a weapon, RUNS. And George, who has been almost giddy with excitement is suddenly furious. Trayvon wrecked his plans. And George completely forgets the entire scenario he has just so carefully suggested to the police. He forgets that Trayvon is supposed to be a drugged up black teenage gangbanger with a weapon.

And I suspect that the video from the clubhouse is going to bear this out. I think it will show that Trayvon wasn't doing anything suspicious at all. I think we will see a kid going along minding his own business. Hopefully we will see when George decided to leave his vehicle and the path he actually took.

All my opinion of course.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:56 AM
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As a separate but equal point, isn't Mr. Owen or the other audio guy the one that determined that the word was "punks?" Wouldn't it be weird if he was a witness for the prosecution in the Florida vs Zimmerman case and a witness for the defense in a US vs Zimmerman case?
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:01 AM
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Down there in Florida, the young black folks call themselves GOONS. I think that is a term related to sports, because the football and basketball teams use it. I found this out by looking through about 50 facebook profiles of graduates from Liberty City high school and Michael Krop high school.

I highly doubt the word used was coon, since GZ's GRANDFATHER was BLACK. If it was either goons or punks, then that was relatively mild compared to what most "vigilante types" would say. (MF'rs.)

JMO-IMO-IMHO-MOO 'n stuff..
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mommakk51 View Post
Down there in Florida, the young black folks call themselves GOONS. I think that is a term related to sports, because the football and basketball teams use it. I found this out by looking through about 50 facebook profiles of graduates from Liberty City high school and Michael Krop high school.

I highly doubt the word used was coon, since GZ's GRANDFATHER was BLACK. If it was either goons or punks, then that was relatively mild compared to what most "vigilante types" would say. (MF'rs.)

JMO-IMO-IMHO-MOO 'n stuff..
It's not just the young black folks, and the word was made very popular by the rap artist Lil' Wayne. From what I know, it has nothing to do with sports, and more to do with street culture, or what may also be called "thug life."

JMO MOO
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by HiHater View Post
It's not just the young black folks, and the word was made very popular by the rap artist Lil' Wayne. From what I know, it has nothing to do with sports, and more to do with street culture, or what may also be called "thug life."

JMO MOO
Yes, you are right about that. I went back and did some more reading, and found that it was indeed about thug life. They even have a place they call gooncity. There's some real interesting videos on youtube about that area of Florida. Especially Carol City and Miami.
Not that I think Tray was involved in that. I think that both Tray and GZ were good guys, and that it was someone else trying to make them look bad. The waiting for the doc dumps is killin' me!

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Last edited by mommakk51; 05-15-2012 at 03:40 AM. Reason: add a word
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mommakk51 View Post
Down there in Florida, the young black folks call themselves GOONS. I think that is a term related to sports, because the football and basketball teams use it. I found this out by looking through about 50 facebook profiles of graduates from Liberty City high school and Michael Krop high school.

I highly doubt the word used was coon, since GZ's GRANDFATHER was BLACK. If it was either goons or punks, then that was relatively mild compared to what most "vigilante types" would say. (MF'rs.)

JMO-IMO-IMHO-MOO 'n stuff..
BBM

In that article it states that is his mothers grandfather so it would be George's Peruvian great-grandfather if the picture is real and if he really is black. Did George even know this guy or identify with him? Did he ever write about him, talk about him with friends?

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...e-crime/nN5pR/


In the meantime, a photograph recently surfaced which is said to show Zimmerman's mother in the arms of her grandfather, who is black.
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:37 AM
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The U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI have opened an investigation into the "facts and circumstances" surrounding the killing of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed teenager shot and killed last month by a neighborhood watch captain in an Orlando suburb.

The department will "conduct a thorough and independent review of all evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation," according to a statement late Monday.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1366101.html
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