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Darlie Routier Darlie Routier is on death row, convicted of murdering her two sons. Darlie claims that an intruder attacked her and the boys and is responsible. Many feel Darlie deserves a new trial. Discuss it here.


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  #1  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:44 AM
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Amphetamines

I found this information about amphetamines:
"Amphetamines speed up the nervous system and cause adrenalin to be released. This increases the heart and respiration rates, increases blood pressure and decreases appetite. In a sense, Amphetamines (by causing a release of adrenalin) mimic the "fight or flight response". This is a natural survival mechanism of man/womankind that operates in a dangerous situation - such as the approach of a hungry lion....At such times the body will automatically go into 'fight or flight' mode... amphetamine users tend not to eat or sleep and burn off a lot of energy by physical activity, the body becomes exhausted - both physically and mentally - after a long period of amphetamine use. As a result users often feel fatigued and depressed for a few days after using amphetamines and may also feel irritable, anxious and restless. Other side effects include blurred vision, sleeplessness, and dizziness. Many women who use amphetamines find that their periods become irregular or even stop... High doses, especially if frequently repeated, can produce delirium, panic attacks, hallucinations, delusions and feelings of paranoia."
http://www.recovery.org.uk/druginfo/index.html

And this:
Long term psychological effects can include insomnia, mental states resembling schizophrenia, aggressiveness, addiction or dependence with accompanying withdrawal symptoms, irritability, confusion, and panic. Chronic and/or extensively continuous use can lead to amphetamine psychosis which causes delusions and paranoia, but this is uncommon when taken as prescribed. Amphetamine is highly psychologically addictive, and with chronic use tolerance develops very quickly. Withdrawl is, although not physiologically threatening, an unpleasant experience (including paranoia, depression, difficulty breathing, dysphoria, gastric fluctuations and/or pain, and lethargia. This commonly leads chronic users to re-dose amphetamine frequently, explaining tolerance and increasing the possibility of addiction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine
Does anyone know if Darlie has stated how many pills a day she took? Or is there any information about the actual Rx? I think she was on them longer than she should have been, according to the drug label. Is that right? Anybody?



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Old 01-08-2006, 03:46 AM
Thinkoflaura Thinkoflaura is offline
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There is only one true Amphetamine ( speed) for weight loss on the market, as has been the case for many years. The drug is Desoxyn.

ALL of the other drugs like Phentermine ( Fastin, etc) are not true Amphetamines. Was Darlie taking Desoxyn?

Since I don't know anything about this part of the Darlie story, could you give me a link to a drug screen which tested positive for Amphetamines?

Darlie could have taken Xenedrine and called it an Amphetamine, IMO. Just sayin'.

Thanks for reading my post.
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:09 PM
Goody Goody is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkoflaura
There is only one true Amphetamine ( speed) for weight loss on the market, as has been the case for many years. The drug is Desoxyn.

ALL of the other drugs like Phentermine ( Fastin, etc) are not true Amphetamines. Was Darlie taking Desoxyn?

Since I don't know anything about this part of the Darlie story, could you give me a link to a drug screen which tested positive for Amphetamines?

Darlie could have taken Xenedrine and called it an Amphetamine, IMO. Just sayin'.

Thanks for reading my post.
Darlie was taking PhenFen, and she had been taking it for three months. She only had about 20 pounds to lose, so she shouldn't have even been on it at all, and they say it is not recommended to be taken for more than a month continuously and she had been taking it three times that long. As far as I know, she was taking it as prescribed. They tested her for drugs and found only that in her system, no street drugs or prescriptions she was not prescribed.
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  #4  
Old 01-08-2006, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goody
Darlie was taking PhenFen, and she had been taking it for three months. She only had about 20 pounds to lose, so she shouldn't have even been on it at all, and they say it is not recommended to be taken for more than a month continuously and she had been taking it three times that long. As far as I know, she was taking it as prescribed. They tested her for drugs and found only that in her system, no street drugs or prescriptions she was not prescribed.
The test only shows a positive or negative, not the amount of amphetamines found. But, like you said, she had been on them longer than she should have been and it is well known those are very dangerous drugs. Wonder if LE ever counted her pills?
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So I held my head up high
Hiding hate that burns inside
Which only fuels their selfish pride
We're all held captive
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  #5  
Old 01-08-2006, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beesy
The test only shows a positive or negative, not the amount of amphetamines found. But, like you said, she had been on them longer than she should have been and it is well known those are very dangerous drugs. Wonder if LE ever counted her pills?
Hmm good question. I doubt they did or even thought of it. Darlie couldn't sleep at night because she was taking diet pills in my opinion anyway. I don't think it had much to do with the baby keeping her awake. As a former user, I know the effects of one pill are minimal so you jack up your usage quite quickly so maybe she was taking more than one a day.
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2006, 11:39 PM
deanws deanws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beesy
The test only shows a positive or negative, not the amount of amphetamines found. But, like you said, she had been on them longer than she should have been and it is well known those are very dangerous drugs. Wonder if LE ever counted her pills?
They would not need to count the pills. They could tell by the level of drugs in her system if she had been abusing the diet pills. They drew blood when she was in the hospital. When they get a postive reading....they do a panel and they figure out how much is in their blood. I read it somewhere. I will try to find it.
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  #7  
Old 01-09-2006, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandaniellws
They would not need to count the pills. They could tell by the level of drugs in her system if she had been abusing the diet pills. They drew blood when she was in the hospital. When they get a postive reading....they do a panel and they figure out how much is in their blood. I read it somewhere. I will try to find it.
The only thing I've ever seen is the picture of the positive screen for amphetamines. Even if she had a theraputic level in her system at the time, if they had counted her pills they could easily see if she had the right amount of pills left. Of course, that opens up all kinds of crap like maybe Darin or Basia or another friend took them. But, even if she wasn't taking too many of the pills, she had been on them longer than the FDA's recommendation.I've mentioned before about Dana and Darin. If Darlie had an actual pathologic paranoia going on brought on the diet pills, it is possible for her to stew and imagine all kinds of things which weren't happening between Dana and Darin. Stew to a sizzling point when Darin walked in the door. The side effects also are aggressiveness and delusions. Long-term use can cause these things just as taking too many can. And as cami said, your body builds up tolerance to this type of drug and you must take more. Tolerance occurs with long-term users. That's why they say not to take them long.
I take Ativan for my seizures and it's listed as a narcotic by the FDA. It is very hard not to take a few extra, but I know I can't because then I'll just have to take more. It makes sense that Darlie upped the dose herself or had the Dr. do it.
I am not giving Darlie an excuse here. I just find it interesting. Jeff Macdonald admits to taking more Rx diet pills per day than was prescribed and we all know what happened with him
__________________
Beesy Was Here

So I held my head up high
Hiding hate that burns inside
Which only fuels their selfish pride
We're all held captive
Out from the sun
A sun that shines on only some
We the meek are all in one
Creed
My Own Prison

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  #8  
Old 01-09-2006, 07:26 AM
Goody Goody is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beesy
The test only shows a positive or negative, not the amount of amphetamines found. But, like you said, she had been on them longer than she should have been and it is well known those are very dangerous drugs. Wonder if LE ever counted her pills?
I don't think any attention was paid to the diet pills, probably because it was a prescription and perfectly legal. It should also be noted that they found no illegal substances in her system, and no alcohol.
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2006, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goody
I don't think any attention was paid to the diet pills, probably because it was a prescription and perfectly legal. It should also be noted that they found no illegal substances in her system, and no alcohol.
Yes, they were legal and no nothing else was found in her system, but those are very dangerous drugs. It would have been more interesting to her defense team than to the state the amount she had in her system. She could have changed her story to a "drug-crazed moment". Haha I know she'd never do that, but it is interesting, especially when you look at the Mac case as well.
__________________
Beesy Was Here

So I held my head up high
Hiding hate that burns inside
Which only fuels their selfish pride
We're all held captive
Out from the sun
A sun that shines on only some
We the meek are all in one
Creed
My Own Prison

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  #10  
Old 01-08-2006, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkoflaura
There is only one true Amphetamine ( speed) for weight loss on the market, as has been the case for many years. The drug is Desoxyn.

ALL of the other drugs like Phentermine ( Fastin, etc) are not true Amphetamines. Was Darlie taking Desoxyn?

Since I don't know anything about this part of the Darlie story, could you give me a link to a drug screen which tested positive for Amphetamines?

Darlie could have taken Xenedrine and called it an Amphetamine, IMO. Just sayin'.

Thanks for reading my post.
She tested positive for amphetamines in the bloodwork done in the ER. A picture of the test results is in MTJD. Darlie never said "I'm taking amphetamines." She said she was taking Rx diet pills. Remember this was in 1996. I've never seen anything written saying what brand of diet pills it was. Goody says Fen-Phen and that's probably right.
__________________
Beesy Was Here

So I held my head up high
Hiding hate that burns inside
Which only fuels their selfish pride
We're all held captive
Out from the sun
A sun that shines on only some
We the meek are all in one
Creed
My Own Prison

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  #11  
Old 01-20-2006, 04:32 PM
deanws deanws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkoflaura
There is only one true Amphetamine ( speed) for weight loss on the market, as has been the case for many years. The drug is Desoxyn.

ALL of the other drugs like Phentermine ( Fastin, etc) are not true Amphetamines. Was Darlie taking Desoxyn?

Since I don't know anything about this part of the Darlie story, could you give me a link to a drug screen which tested positive for Amphetamines?

Darlie could have taken Xenedrine and called it an Amphetamine, IMO. Just sayin'.

Thanks for reading my post.
Darlie was taking the drug Fastin.
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  #12  
Old 01-20-2006, 04:37 PM
Thinkoflaura Thinkoflaura is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandaniellws
Darlie was taking the drug Fastin.
Yes, and the chemical/ generic name for the brand name of Fastin is Phentermine. Fastin IS Phentermine. As I posted above, Phentermine is NOT an amphetamine but does have enough of the chemical properties that it can show a false positive for " Amphetamines" on a broad drug screen. A specific drug assay would then narrow the substance down to its specific chemical properties, showing that it was Phentermine, which is not an Amphetamine. Since Amphetamines are a Class II Schedule controlled substance and Phentermine is a Class IV Schedule controlled substance, there is a huge difference in the safety and addiction potential. The lower the Schedule number ( I - !V) the safer the drug as determined by its inherent chemical properties and action upon the human body, non-specific to an individual client.
Thank you for reading.
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2006, 04:45 PM
deanws deanws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkoflaura
Yes, and the chemical/ generic name for the brand name of Fastin is Phentermine. Fastin IS Phentermine. As I posted above, Phentermine is NOT an amphetamine but does have enough of the chemical properties that it can show a false positive for " Amphetamines" on a broad drug screen. A specific drug assay would then narrow the substance down to its specific chemical properties, showing that it was Phentermine, which is not an Amphetamine. Since Amphetamines are a Class II Schedule controlled substance and Phentermine is a Class IV Schedule controlled substance, there is a huge difference in the safety and addiction potential. The lower the Schedule number ( I - !V) the safer the drug as determined by its inherent chemical properties and action upon the human body, non-specific to an individual client.
Thank you for reading.
I know...I was agreeing with you! It was a very popular drug in the 80's. I took it to lose the weight after my second child was born. It made me nervous!. I only stayed on it for two months.
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Old 01-21-2006, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandaniellws
I know...I was agreeing with you! It was a very popular drug in the 80's. I took it to lose the weight after my second child was born. It made me nervous!. I only stayed on it for two months.
You took only the Fastin and not the other half of PhenFen? Tell us exactly what you took and what the side effects were.
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Old 01-21-2006, 06:19 AM
Goody Goody is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkoflaura
Yes, and the chemical/ generic name for the brand name of Fastin is Phentermine. Fastin IS Phentermine. As I posted above, Phentermine is NOT an amphetamine but does have enough of the chemical properties that it can show a false positive for " Amphetamines" on a broad drug screen. A specific drug assay would then narrow the substance down to its specific chemical properties, showing that it was Phentermine, which is not an Amphetamine. Since Amphetamines are a Class II Schedule controlled substance and Phentermine is a Class IV Schedule controlled substance, there is a huge difference in the safety and addiction potential. The lower the Schedule number ( I - !V) the safer the drug as determined by its inherent chemical properties and action upon the human body, non-specific to an individual client.
Thank you for reading.
What about other side effects like nervousness, interference with sleep, etc? Is that present in the Fastin as it is in other diet drugs? What about psychotic epidsodes, even in a rare occurence?
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  #16  
Old 01-21-2006, 06:17 AM
Goody Goody is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandaniellws
Darlie was taking the drug Fastin.
Are you sure she was only taking Fastin? That is interesting. I wonder where the PhenFen rumor started then.
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  #17  
Old 01-21-2006, 03:03 PM
deanws deanws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goody
Are you sure she was only taking Fastin? That is interesting. I wonder where the PhenFen rumor started then.
Yes, I am sure.
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  #18  
Old 01-21-2006, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goody
Are you sure she was only taking Fastin? That is interesting. I wonder where the PhenFen rumor started then.
from you. I told you the lab results said she tested positive for amphetamines with a footnote saying the Phen, no Fen. Thanks Pam
__________________
Beesy Was Here

So I held my head up high
Hiding hate that burns inside
Which only fuels their selfish pride
We're all held captive
Out from the sun
A sun that shines on only some
We the meek are all in one
Creed
My Own Prison

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  #19  
Old 01-21-2006, 11:20 PM
deanws deanws is offline
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Cami...your books are on their way back Monday! Thanks a million.
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  #20  
Old 01-23-2006, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beesy
from you. I told you the lab results said she tested positive for amphetamines with a footnote saying the Phen, no Fen. Thanks Pam
O, geez, beesy,you haven't been around long enough to know about the HUGE discussions on PhenFen, so please don't point fingers like that. Jeana and Mary and Dani know what I am taking about. So does Cami. CJ did a ton of research on it back when we were told it was PhenFen. I just don't remember who made the claim first. Might have been Jeff. Or it might have already been out there even before Jeff. And that was before my time, too.
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  #21  
Old 01-08-2006, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beesy
I found this information about amphetamines:
"Amphetamines speed up the nervous system and cause adrenalin to be released. This increases the heart and respiration rates, increases blood pressure and decreases appetite. In a sense, Amphetamines (by causing a release of adrenalin) mimic the "fight or flight response". This is a natural survival mechanism of man/womankind that operates in a dangerous situation - such as the approach of a hungry lion....At such times the body will automatically go into 'fight or flight' mode... amphetamine users tend not to eat or sleep and burn off a lot of energy by physical activity, the body becomes exhausted - both physically and mentally - after a long period of amphetamine use. As a result users often feel fatigued and depressed for a few days after using amphetamines and may also feel irritable, anxious and restless. Other side effects include blurred vision, sleeplessness, and dizziness. Many women who use amphetamines find that their periods become irregular or even stop... High doses, especially if frequently repeated, can produce delirium, panic attacks, hallucinations, delusions and feelings of paranoia."
http://www.recovery.org.uk/druginfo/index.html

And this:
Long term psychological effects can include insomnia, mental states resembling schizophrenia, aggressiveness, addiction or dependence with accompanying withdrawal symptoms, irritability, confusion, and panic. Chronic and/or extensively continuous use can lead to amphetamine psychosis which causes delusions and paranoia, but this is uncommon when taken as prescribed. Amphetamine is highly psychologically addictive, and with chronic use tolerance develops very quickly. Withdrawl is, although not physiologically threatening, an unpleasant experience (including paranoia, depression, difficulty breathing, dysphoria, gastric fluctuations and/or pain, and lethargia. This commonly leads chronic users to re-dose amphetamine frequently, explaining tolerance and increasing the possibility of addiction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine
Does anyone know if Darlie has stated how many pills a day she took? Or is there any information about the actual Rx? I think she was on them longer than she should have been, according to the drug label. Is that right? Anybody?


See my post to laura.
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