WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #2

[outofthedark]

Hi-

I thought it would be better to start another thread on the Grays Harbor, Washington John Doe- only this time I'm just posting where I think he might be from...

I just checked my World Atlas book to see where the closest places are to Grays Harbor and I think "Robert Doe" could possibly be from Vancouver or Victoria (Canada) and OR Seattle or Tacoma. I've thought these places could be possible because they could have given "Robert Doe" more time to get to Grays Harbor on September 15th, 2001 OR possibly before September 15th, 2001

[dark_shadows]

Well this may be a long shot but here goes;

What if this John Doe had a terrorist link.What if he was supposed to do something on 9/11 and failed.Flight #77 was apparently headed for the White House.There were passengers that were turned away and did not board that flight from Dulles airport.Maybe the airport tapes should be checked to see if John Doe was in that airport.
So he resorted to suicide.Or if it was a murder to make it appear to be a suicide because of a failed mission.I have not read the book with the "Lyle Stevik charactor, in the book "You must remember this" by Joyce Carol Oates.Apparently there is mention of political affairs,sympathies with those against America,and suicides.
John Doe did not check in under this alias for no reason.

[outofthedark]

Originally Posted by dark_shadows

Well this may be a long shot but here goes;

What if this John Doe had a terrorist link.What if he was supposed to do something on 9/11 and failed.Flight #77 was apparently headed for the White House.There were passengers that were turned away and did not board that flight from Dulles airport.Maybe the airport tapes should be checked to see if John Doe was in that airport.
So he resorted to suicide.Or if it was a murder to make it appear to be a suicide because of a failed mission.I have not read the book with the "Lyle Stevik charactor, in the book "You must remember this" by Joyce Carol Oates.Apparently there is mention of political affairs,sympathies with those against America,and suicides.
John Doe did not check in under this alias for no reason.

If it was a murder designed to look like a suicide- wouldn't the front desk or anyone who was at the hotel between September 16th- September 17th, 2001 see anyone go in to this person's hotel room? After "Robert" had died- there was no mention of anyone having come to his hotel room in an article, nor had anyone said that to the police- so I'm not very sure about that- but good theory though!

I had other theories about this guy too- The Lyle Stevick in the book commits suicide- perhaps "Robert" related to that guy or "Robert's" life was troubled from day 1 of his life that it depressed him enough to kill himself...

Another theory: This guy may have been planning his death for a long time- so perhaps he knew what he was going to bring with him when he commited suicide. I'm always wondering where he might have lived- did he have a roommate? Did he live with his parents? Or was he going to University and living there?

Another thing: I was always suspicious about his autopsy photos the first time I saw them- I was wondering how after he hung himself, he could look really good on that autopsy table! I think the photo is result of some touching up to make it less graphic for viewers...

[dark_shadows]

Originally Posted by outofthedark

Another thing: I was always suspicious about his autopsy photos the first time I saw them- I was wondering how after he hung himself, he could look really good on that autopsy table! I think the photo is result of some touching up to make it less graphic for viewers...

Hello Outofthedark,
I posted that about the autopsy photo and you replied (click for link).

Originally Posted by outofthedark

If it was a murder designed to look like a suicide- wouldn't the front desk or anyone who was at the hotel between September 16th- September 17th, 2001 see anyone go in to this person's hotel room?

I do not know how the hotel was set up,but hotels do not keep track of payed customers guests.They do not go up to a person walking in the door and goes past the desk area.Especially if the rooms are not inside the front desk building.(ie;You pull into the parking lot and the motel rooms are right there.)

[outofthedark]

Originally Posted by dark_shadows

Hello Outofthedark,
I posted that about the autopsy photo and you replied (click for link).

I do not know how the hotel was set up,but hotels do not keep track of payed customers guests.They do not go up to a person walking in the door and goes past the desk area.Especially if the rooms are not inside the front desk building.(ie;You pull into the parking lot and the motel rooms are right there.)

I actually meant to say if anyone who had been in the hallway or floor where "Robert's" hotel room was would have seen a person... sometimes I have a habit of not writing my sentences in a clear way- I'm trying to fix that...

I also wonder how noisy the 1st room "Robert" stayed in was to the point where he wanted to be moved to another one...

[dark_shadows]

Hi Outofthedark,

Thanks for the post.

[rpipergirl]

[quote=dark_shadows]Hello Outofthedark,
I posted that about the autopsy photo and you replied (click for link).

I do not know how the hotel was set up,but hotels do not keep track of payed customers guests.They do not go up to a person walking in the door and goes past the desk area.Especially if the rooms are not inside the front desk building.(ie;You pull into the parking lot and the motel rooms are right there.)[/QUOTE\
I just looked at the autopsy photos too. i noticed that there was brusing or maybe signs of lividityon the side of his face in the profile photo.Also he had a small laceration at the corner of his right eye in face forward pic. I'm thinking murder.

[outofthedark]

[quote=rpipergirl]

Originally Posted by dark_shadows

Hello Outofthedark,
I posted that about the autopsy photo and you replied (click for link).

I do not know how the hotel was set up,but hotels do not keep track of payed customers guests.They do not go up to a person walking in the door and goes past the desk area.Especially if the rooms are not inside the front desk building.(ie;You pull into the parking lot and the motel rooms are right there.)[/QUOTE\
I just looked at the autopsy photos too. i noticed that there was brusing or maybe signs of lividityon the side of his face in the profile photo.Also he had a small laceration at the corner of his right eye in face forward pic. I'm thinking murder.

I never noticed that before- i'll have to look again. I did find an enlarged image of the face foward pic on another forum: http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread....hreadid=823089

[efxdavid]

[quote=rpipergirl]

Originally Posted by dark_shadows

Hello Outofthedark,
I posted that about the autopsy photo and you replied (click for link).

[/QUOTE\
I just looked at the autopsy photos too. i noticed that there was brusing or maybe signs of lividityon the side of his face in the profile photo.Also he had a small laceration at the corner of his right eye in face forward pic. I'm thinking murder.

COLDCASEMAN can speak to this possibility better than I can, but he's discussed the evidence in earlier threads and says it doesn't point to murder. I did the digital reconstruction of Lyle's face, and spent a long time looking at his autopsy photos. He had lividity and abrasive marks on one side of his face where his weight was resting against the belt, and that would have been coupled with the likely thrashing that his body went through as he was hanging.

[dark_shadows]

Hello rpipergirl,

Nice to see you.

You need to fix your post. You are running my post into yours. Thank-you. I have done this myself before.



[quote=rpipergirl]

Originally Posted by dark_shadows

Hello Outofthedark,
I posted that about the autopsy photo and you replied (click for link).

I do not know how the hotel was set up,but hotels do not keep track of payed customers guests.They do not go up to a person walking in the door and goes past the desk area.Especially if the rooms are not inside the front desk building.(ie;You pull into the parking lot and the motel rooms are right there.)[/QUOTE\
I just looked at the autopsy photos too. i noticed that there was brusing or maybe signs of lividityon the side of his face in the profile photo.Also he had a small laceration at the corner of his right eye in face forward pic. I'm thinking murder.

My quote;

Originally Posted by dark_shadows

Hello Outofthedark,
I posted that about the autopsy photo and you replied (click for link).

I do not know how the hotel was set up,but hotels do not keep track of payed customers guests.They do not go up to a person walking in the door and goes past the desk area.Especially if the rooms are not inside the front desk building.(ie;You pull into the parking lot and the motel rooms are right there.)

This is is your quote;

Originally Posted by rpipergirl

I just looked at the autopsy photos too. i noticed that there was brusing or maybe signs of lividityon the side of his face in the profile photo.Also he had a small laceration at the corner of his right eye in face forward pic. I'm thinking murder.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Lurker Steve]

Grays Harbor is a popular summer destination for Seattle residents. It's pretty much the closest ocean beach.

[outofthedark]

Originally Posted by Lurker Steve

Grays Harbor is a popular summer destination for Seattle residents. It's pretty much the closest ocean beach.

Thanks for that fact- very interesting!

[dark_shadows]

I find it unlikely that he went there for a trip to the ocean.

[outofthedark]

Originally Posted by dark_shadows

I find it unlikely that he went there for a trip to the ocean.

didn't think that either...

Just checked my calendar- he checked in to the hotel on September 15th- that's a Friday and when he was found dead on September 17th- that was a Sunday. If he was employed- and depends if he did ever work on Mondays- wouldn't whoever employed him report him missing? It all depends if he worked or if he worked part-time- either way, he could have asked to take a few days off of work. I do find it possible that he could have said something to cover up what he was really intending to do...

"Robert" could have possibly been in Washington two days before he checked in to that hotel...

About that trailer park that was next to the hotel- I wonder if they went around and asked the people who lived there if they knew who he was??

[Boatswain'sMate]

Just wanted to add a few thoughts since I'm fairly familiar with the area.

Amanda Park, where this guy was found is completely in the middle of nowhere. It is not near the beach, but in a temperate rain forest next to a beautiful lake. Popular almost exclusively with hikers and fishers. Very, very lovely scenery, but the population (800 or so) is quite poor and predominately Native American and virtually the only jobs in the area have to do with timber. There are fewer motels and hotels than you would expect. Amanda Park is on a two-lane twisty highway that is practically deserted out of season, and serves mainly as a conduit for people in the southern area of Puget Sound and the Northern part of Oregon to travel up to the attractions of the Olympic Penninsula, such as Ruby Beach, the Olympic National Park, and the Hoh Rain Forest in the north-west part. It would be a much more inconvienient route south from Canada than Interstate 5, because it would involve either taking a couple of ferry rides and going way west and then south, or traveling down to Olympia and then going west and back up north. There aren't really any roads across the Penninsula, only around the perimeter because Mt. Olympia is smack dab in the middle.

Some thoughts:

This area is popular as a short day-trip for students at The Evergreen State University in Olympia, WA. I mention this because of his literary alias. The school caters to students with "alternative" lifestyles, latter-day hippies, if you will. There are no grades, and you can just make up a major. Although many people thrive in that atmosphere (Matt Groening, for one!), others find that when they leave, they don't really have anywhere to go or anything they can get paid to do, or they are unused to working under the authority of a boss of any kind.

One other feature of the area are the many Indian Reservations on the Penninsula. He may have left his tribal community to find work, ended up living in the forest and practically starving (the weight loss) and scraped up enough money to rent the room to kill himself in. His family may think he's left the reservation behind.

One other thought -- did he have a car with him?

[coldcaseman]

I was the Detective who investigated the Lyle Stevik case. I just retired a few months ago, and just found this site. To answer some previous posts: Lyle arrived by bus, possibly one that came from Port Angeles (south), but a bus came up from Aberdeen (northbound) and arrived about the same time. Neither driver was sure if he was on their bus. He arrived with no luggage, and there was no luggage, clothing, etc. in the motel dumpster. The book "you must remember this" deals with the main character considering suicide. I often if the web info from "Steven" concerning suspension hanging was Lyle. He may have come from Canada, as the clerk recalled that he had "a slight Canadian accent". The fact he wrote the word "suicide" on a piece of paper I found in the trash leads me to believe he wrote a letter home, telling someone of his intentions, that he was going to disappear, so they aren't looking for him. He may have been dying, or suffered from depression, as he lost a lot of weight, although nothing was found at the autopsy. I saw no indications that he ever wore a wedding ring. His eyes are open in the photos because I opened them, to make him look as alive as possible for the photo. He didn't tape the pillows to the wall on the coat rack, they were wedged between the rack and the wall. This was a very unusual case. I still work on it, just to make sure Lyles loved ones know what happened to him and where he is buried. I appreciate any help.

[WhiteWolf]

Thanks for joining us!

I've been doing a little searching for relatives of Lyle, but haven't tried to contact any of the people with the last name "Stevik". I found some from Canada, Alaska, the East Coast, and even a reporter for the Everett newspaper with the last name Stevik. How do you go about finding his relatives?

[scandi]

Hi Dark_Shadows,

What a fascinating study this case is! I know people commit suicide every day, but when you actually stop and consider it, it gives one the heeby-jeebies {at least it did me}. Maybe it was seeing his 2 photos. He looks so sad, and probably part of that is because he is dead, in fact I would almost call it a forelorn vacant look.

Coldcaseman, we are honored to have you here and so glad you found our site. Thanks for your comments. Of course there are questions I have and I know answers might be few.

He gave an address in Meridian Idaho. Their website for the town was dated in 2001 so there may be nothing to learn here, but am wondering if a local paper there published any info about this person who committed suicide and stated he was from that town in the normal time for a death notice.

I think the photos have been retouched. I do see his one eye is swoolen above and below it, as is the part of the cheek adjacent to his mouth on the same side of his face. I see red blotches on his forehead and a red irritation of some sort on his chin. And then where his adams apple is, it is an indentation that is red, and I can see redness on that swoolen side going around at the top of his neck.

Coldcaseman, I don't know if you are at liberty to say, but in real life since you attended him, was it obvious to you that he had hanged himself? I know the blood pools by gravity so that is why we don't see the normal darkness on one side of his face, but did you notice any swelling? You have no suspicions of murder made to look like a suicide?

That leads me to the hanging itself. I went to the 'Steven' suicide link { distressing } and am wondering if the rope that held him was tied and positioned like the one drawn there. Were you there when he was taken down? I'm sure you have seen suicides before since you were an investigator, but would you say this one was quite normal? I know that sounds odd, but wondering if anything stood out in your mind?

Thanks Scandi

[scandi]

Another thought:

I find it odd he went to a motel in Grays Harbor City Wa, as it is a town you could pass by and hardly know it was there. Their promo describes it as the perfect getaway. Hey, I can't even find a motel located there on the internet!

I realize a place like this is a great spot to commit suicide, but what I am getting at is you would have to be somewhat local to even know it was there. It took quite a bit of Googling to locate it due to it being tiny and located in
Gray's Harbor County, of the same name.

It lies just west about 1 1/2 miles of Hoquim Wa which is adjacent to Aberdeen Wa, seperated by the Chehalis River I believe, and these two cities are quite major in the area and would call them conjoining. I've been there oodles of times when I lived in Olympia and traveled back and forth everyday in my job as a door to door saleslady.

So you are in Aberdeen, you drive across the river into Hoquim and go through town heading west and then find you are on the road that runs along the harbor, which is really like a huge bay that is 15 miles long by 11 miles wide. Drive 1 1/2 miles westerly and off to the right is an exit road to
Grays Harbor City.

I only write about this to give you a mindset of the location. I find it helps to have a mental picture of the area when discussing a crime.

Another thought comes to mind, that was the hotel he was found in really in this tiny burg of a town or maybe in either Hoquim or Aberdeen. Those two cities are full of cheap old hotels from the days past, and they still make the towns have a look of the real old days when they cut the railroad line in to haul out the timber. I could have called them seedy hotels, but that might give the wrong impression. LOL LOL

Also I have a hard time thinking of him as Mexican or Latino because he is way taller than the average guy with that heritage. Hispanic, samd thing.


Scandi

[scandi]

Ah Haa! I didn't note before he was found in Amanda Park Wa. That is probably in Gray's Harbor County but is up Hwy 101 on Lake Quinault. Here's a map. I'll have to see what I can learn about it, but think it is a vacation spot because of the lake.

I bet this is the motel because it has an RV Park along with the motel:

Amanda Park Motel & Rv Park, 8 River Dr, Amanda Park, WA 98526



Sorry!

Scandi

[coldcaseman]

Yes, I was the one that worked the scene. He used his leather belt, and it was fashioned similar to the one depicted in stevens story. He had placed a washcloth between the belt and his neck, to make it more comfortable. He then bend down, and his knees were almost touching the floor. Everything was consistant with suicide. Lividity was consistant with suspension hanging. There was no swelling on his face. The eye appears swollen due to my attempt to open his eyes and make him look "alive". All of his clothing were brands found in North America. I found nothing foreign. Another point that wasn't in the flier was that the $20 bills he left for the room were crisp, as though he had just gotten them from a bank. There is no bank nearby. As for Meridian Idaho, I sent his photos to the Meridian Police Department. They showed them to the employees, and no one recognized him. Neither did the Police. I'm thinking that he stopped there on his way through. I did a nationwide search for Lyle Stevik. I did find a Lyle Stevick in Oregon, who was still alive and well. I spent many hours on this case, even though there was no crime committed. Even though I believe that he has notified his family that there was no need to look for him, I want to be sure. He is buried in an unmarked grave at Fern Hill cemetary in Aberdeen, and that is not right.

[coldcaseman]

Amanda Park is on the North Shore of Lake Quinault, part of it is in the Olympic National park. It is in the Northern part of Grays Harbor county, about 25 miles North of Aberdeen/Hoquiam. I'm not surprised there isn't much about the motel on the internet. It is a small motel, what I would call a no tell-motel. The clerk didn't even ask to see Lyles identification, she just had him fill out his name and address on the back of the payment envelope. If you are from the East coast, you would think you couldn't get much further West. We would actually get people from other parts of the country who would come to Grays Harbor to commit suicide. It is their attempt to disappear, to keep the suicide as far away from loved ones as possible.

[WhiteWolf]

Originally Posted by coldcaseman

Yes, I was the one that worked the scene. He used his leather belt, and it was fashioned similar to the one depicted in stevens story. He had placed a washcloth between the belt and his neck, to make it more comfortable. He then bend down, and his knees were almost touching the floor. Everything was consistant with suicide. Lividity was consistant with suspension hanging. There was no swelling on his face. The eye appears swollen due to my attempt to open his eyes and make him look "alive". All of his clothing were brands found in North America. I found nothing foreign. Another point that wasn't in the flier was that the $20 bills he left for the room were crisp, as though he had just gotten them from a bank. There is no bank nearby. As for Meridian Idaho, I sent his photos to the Meridian Police Department. They showed them to the employees, and no one recognized him. Neither did the Police. I'm thinking that he stopped there on his way through. I did a nationwide search for Lyle Stevik. I did find a Lyle Stevick in Oregon, who was still alive and well. I spent many hours on this case, even though there was no crime committed. Even though I believe that he has notified his family that there was no need to look for him, I want to be sure. He is buried in an unmarked grave at Fern Hill cemetary in Aberdeen, and that is not right.

Lyle looks Native American, Alaskan Native or Canadian Aboriginal to me.

I'm curious, did Lyle have any suntan marks on his body? You mentioned Lyle didn't appear to do physical labor, what did you base that on? Were his hands smooth instead of calloused?

The new $20 bills is interesting. Maybe he did come from Canada or through Canada with Canadian money and went to the bank to exchange it? He also could have taken a ferry from Alaska or Vancouver Island to Washington.

[dark_shadows]

[quote=coldcaseman]Lividity was consistant with suspension hanging. There was no swelling on his face. The eye appears swollen due to my attempt to open his eyes and make him look "alive". All of his clothing were brands found in North America. I found nothing foreign. Another point that wasn't in the flier was that the $20 bills he left for the room were crisp, as though he had just gotten them from a bank. There is no bank nearby.QUOTE]
coldcaseman,
Please explain that the lividity was consistant with hanging.

Why would his eyes be swollen in an attempt to make him look alive when he was deseased.
The crisp bills could have been distributed from an ATM at a bank or a store that has ATM machines prior to his trip and kept in his wallett.It is not unusual to carry a crisp bill.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[jaqinak]

the address he gave is a Best Western in Meridian. Was the hotel he commited suicide in a Best Western? He may have got the address out of a hotel listing