Poll: Will this case ever be solved?

[Sophie]

I know this has been done before but it's always worth updating opinions, especially since the case is apparently being reviewed in Boulder.

[Ravyn]

I don't believe this crime will be solved..Cause at times I really think John Ramsey did kill JB..And as long everybody point the finger at Patsy Ramsey the real killer(s)as nothing to worry about..And if the R's lawyers have ties with the DA office then that is other block..

[Sophie]

Originally Posted by Ravyn

I don't believe this crime will be solved..Cause at times I really think John Ramsey did kill JB..And as long everybody point the finger at Patsy Ramsey the real killer(s)as nothing to worry about..And if the R's lawyers have ties with the DA office then that is other block..

You're right, Ravyn: if JDI, then the PDI faction is manna from heaven to him.

[voynich]

Originally Posted by Sophie

You're right, Ravyn: if JDI, then the PDI faction is manna from heaven to him.

would you consider the crime solved if JB unknown DNA were to match Amy's rapist (if they did do a rape exam on Amy)

[Sophie]

Originally Posted by voynich

would you consider the crime solved if JB unknown DNA were to match Amy's rapist (if they did do a rape exam on Amy)

Well, I can't believe that the Amy rapist DNA wasn't put on CODIS so it's highly hypothetical but:

1) If the rapist spoke excellent English and could have written the RN or at least had the education to duplicate pseudo-RN notes; and

2) Could be placed in Boulder that night

then there'd be a pretty strong case for saying the case was solved.

However, given that the RN indicates that the murderer knew the Ramseys, you'd have to look for the Amy rapist connection to the Ramseys then make sure you could eliminate the possibility of innocent transfer of the DNA. So formally saying you'd solved the case wouldn't be as simple as just matching the DNA.

[voynich]

Originally Posted by Sophie

Well, I can't believe that the Amy rapist DNA wasn't put on CODIS so it's highly hypothetical but:

1) If the rapist spoke excellent English and could have written the RN or at least had the education to duplicate pseudo-RN notes; and

2) Could be placed in Boulder that night

then there'd be a pretty strong case for saying the case was solved.

However, given that the RN indicates that the murderer knew the Ramseys, you'd have to look for the Amy rapist connection to the Ramseys then make sure you could eliminate the possibility of innocent transfer of the DNA. So formally saying you'd solved the case wouldn't be as simple as just matching the DNA.

I don't know if they recovered DNA from Amy that night, is it possible to learn more via FOIA request?

[Holdontoyourhat]

Originally Posted by Sophie

Well, I can't believe that the Amy rapist DNA wasn't put on CODIS so it's highly hypothetical but:

1) If the rapist spoke excellent English and could have written the RN or at least had the education to duplicate pseudo-RN notes; and

2) Could be placed in Boulder that night

Uh, who says JBR's RN author speaks 'excellent' English? You've no idea how the RN author speaks anyway. The RN is written.

It seems to me that the RN composition is only average, and the spelling and handwriting are below average. Certainly not 'excellent'.

[Ravyn]

Originally Posted by voynich

would you consider the crime solved if JB unknown DNA were to match Amy's rapist (if they did do a rape exam on Amy)

I would believe this to be solved if the LE proved it..But look how long it's been so I'm doubtful it's Amy's rapist..

[madeleine]

Originally Posted by voynich

would you consider the crime solved if JB unknown DNA were to match Amy's rapist (if they did do a rape exam on Amy)

No,that wouldn't be enough for me,not in THIS case.

[madeleine]

No - 'the rice is cooked' and our grandchildren will be discussing the case

[madeleine]

Even IF this will ever go to trial (and I mean RDI) it will probably go like this:

DERSHOWITZ: And that's a fair answer, but under your analysis you couldn't arrest John Ramsey and you could only arrest Patsy Ramsey for accidentally causing a death, because I think any criminal lawyer will tell you that if either the death caused -- either the accident caused the death of JonBenet or she reasonably thought it caused the death of JonBenet, whatever she did thereafter could be only be an obstruction of justice. But it wouldn't turn an accident into a murder.

VAN SUSTEREN: And...

THOMAS: Let me respond, Greta, if I could please, just real quickly.

Mr. Dershowitz, you're not getting an argument from me. I lay out that I don't think the father's involved. And as I've said before, I think this was an accidental death, which by definition lacked motive.

I'm not suggesting a first-degree murder charge here.

DERSHOWITZ: Not even a murder charge. Probably at most a negligent homicide charge.

THOMPSON: How about manslaughter, Alan? Are we just forgetting manslaughter?

DERSHOWITZ: Well, manslaughter...



http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...04/lkl.00.html


It will be very hard to prove especially since PR is dead.

[madeleine]

Lawyers will spin it and spin it and I don't see a conviction being possible,ever,not without a R confessing.

[passionflower]

yes, someday I believe someone (brother? he was in house & awake) will break and tell what they know when John R. dies...............IMO

[Ravyn]

Not the only fat cat around and we had and we had a group of individuals calling themselves the Rat Pack...

S.B.T.C. Saved By The Cross along with W.W.J.D What Would Jesus Do..

Beheaded sorry anyone that reads the Bible would know about John the Baptist..

And no one can't say the Ramsey's didn't read so any of this RN can come anywhere...

[Tadpole12]

Wikipedia (Thumbnails)

Wikipedia (Thumbnails)
Wikipedia (Thumbnails)

Compounds and hyphens

British English often prefers hyphenated compounds, such as counter-attack, whereas American English discourages the use of hyphens in compounds where there is no compelling reason, so

counterattack" target="_blank">counterattack

counterattack" target="_blank">counterattack
counterattack">counterattack" style="max-height:250px; max-width:270px" /> counterattack

is much more common.

Heyya Hotyh?

counter-measures? br?

[Holdontoyourhat]

Originally Posted by Tadpole12

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...ng_differences
Compounds and hyphens

British English often prefers hyphenated compounds, such as counter-attack, whereas American English discourages the use of hyphens in compounds where there is no compelling reason, so counterattack is much more common.

Heyya Hotyh?

counter-measures? br?

There seems to be plenty of uk examples of 'countermeasures' unhyphenated. I can't find too many hyphenated.

But counter-attack does show up. Maybe Sophie can tell us about it.

[Tadpole12]

Maybe Sophie can tell us about it. - Hotyh

cool.

also pick-up; cdn, br

[Holdontoyourhat]

Originally Posted by Tadpole12

Maybe Sophie can tell us about it. - Hotyh

cool.

also pick-up; cdn, br

The author used pickup in the noun form. There should be no hyphen.

[Holdontoyourhat]

Originally Posted by Ravyn

Not the only fat cat around and we had and we had a group of individuals calling themselves the Rat Pack...

S.B.T.C. Saved By The Cross along with W.W.J.D What Would Jesus Do..

Beheaded sorry anyone that reads the Bible would know about John the Baptist..

And no one can't say the Ramsey's didn't read so any of this RN can come anywhere...

Maybe read what Tadpole posted, that the RN reads like a list.

The RN author's use of English consists of a pattern of simple elementary English words with no narrowing to US-English.

The statement 'southern common sense' and the American movie references have nothing to do with the author's use of English.

The use of movie lines is really a sign of lack of original vernacular capability. An attempt to sound American by borrowing already existing phrases.

[Ravyn]

Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat

Maybe read what Tadpole posted, that the RN reads like a list.

The RN author's use of English consists of a pattern of simple elementary English words with no narrowing to US-English.

The statement 'southern common sense' and the American movie references have nothing to do with the author's use of English.

The use of movie lines is really a sign of lack of original vernacular capability. An attempt to sound American by borrowing already existing phrases.

One thing to me the person that author the RN was trying to make it sound like a small forgien faction but in the end the Ramsey's was the one that pointed the fingers at LHP,Fleet White,and Access employee's so they didn't believe an intruder from the get go so why should we...

[Sophie]

Originally Posted by Ravyn

One thing to me the person that author the RN was trying to make it sound like a small forgien faction but in the end the Ramsey's was the one that pointed the fingers at LHP,Fleet White,and Access employee's so they didn't believe an intruder from the get go so why should we...

That is exactly the point, Ravyn. HOTYH discusses at length LE's failure to look at the SFF angle but the Ramseys themselves looked at every angle BUT the SFF angle. Off-hand, I can't think of an attempt they made to identify a foreigner with a grudge.

[Sophie]

Talking of hyphens, examples of Patsy's hyphens before the murder:


http://blabbieville.tripod.com/1995xmasnewsletter.txt



Another thing that is not British English is the 'F.B.I.' thing. You almost never see that now: we'd pretty much always write 'FBI' as in 'Department of Work and Pensions - DWP' or 'Financial Services Authority - FSA' or 'Foreign and Commonwealth Office -FCO' or 'Her Majesty's Prison (eg. Strangeways) - HMP Strangeways.'

Would writing F.B.I. be that common in US English?

[Holdontoyourhat]

Originally Posted by Sophie

That is exactly the point, Ravyn. HOTYH discusses at length LE's failure to look at the SFF angle but the Ramseys themselves looked at every angle BUT the SFF angle. Off-hand, I can't think of an attempt they made to identify a foreigner with a grudge.

I'm not going to single out LE. RDI and IDI alike haven't even looked at the prima facie angle. And, there's evidence to support prima facie.

• DNA doesn't match tested family, friends, neighbors, or anybody already in CODIS. Hmm guess the circle widens.
• Handwriting has peculiar squared off features that come and go, possibly attributed to ESL's first language residual appearing intermittently.
• Victory!, 'fat cat', and 'not the country that it serves' have a subtle but distinct common thread in socialism.
• There are no linguistic traits that could narrow the English to US-English.

[Ravyn]

Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat

Maybe read what Tadpole posted, that the RN reads like a list.

The RN author's use of English consists of a pattern of simple elementary English words with no narrowing to US-English.

The statement 'southern common sense' and the American movie references have nothing to do with the author's use of English.

The use of movie lines is really a sign of lack of original vernacular capability. An attempt to sound American by borrowing already existing phrases.

Maybe so...But can you say for sure the Ramsey's did not write the RN..You keep telling eveyone they wasn't there that night I know I wasn't...Tom Clancey is a great example of counter-mearsures and tactics from Call of Duty to Splittercell..John Douglas is an other best yet an retired F.B.I telling of his cases..So to make a crime scene to look different from what truly happen was at John Ramsey clasp..

[Sophie]

Eeek! I've got Piggy-Cold* you know. Will go through HOTYH's bits through the course of today. A couple of initial thoughts, though:

1) British-English is slowly conforming to US English. Your wonderful author Bill Bryson (who is also Chancellor of one of my local universities and much-loved aficionado of one of our prettier local cities) has written on this subject and, if memory serves, discusses it in his book, 'Mother Tongue.'

2) HOTYH says that the grammar is poor yet proceeds to examine the grammar forms to try to prove that the writer wasn't necessarily of American provenance. He surely shouldn't take the absence of a comma here or the exclusion on a hyphen there to prove anything - using his analysis, I mean. In fact, hyphens are a huge bugbear here and you find nerdy societies dedicated to restoring certain rules of grammar (eg. The Apostrophe Protection Society).

3) He quotes the provenance of certain expressions and suggests that they are actually as British as they are American since they have common origins. In fact, he is very easily proven wrong: In the 1700s, we said 'gotten.' Now we don't. You do. You may get the odd person saying 'outsmart' but in fact, we refer generally to brightness, cleverness, being on the ball, rather than to smartness and the expression, 'outsmart' is far from common. 'Out-wit' would be my pick** Similarly, most English writers would use 's' in words like 'criticise' but, in fact, there is an entire school of grammar, the Oxford School, which prefers 'z' and you will get some Oxford graduates still using the 'z.'

4) As far as I am aware, pretty much everyone who examined the note bar HOTYH thought that it was American English. Is he suggesting that , with the benefit of their educations on the subject, they don't know what they are talking about?

5) I was discussing how the letter read to me, a 30-something graduate who, through work, spends at least as much time reading American correspondence as she does English. It reads as US English to me. HOTYH thinks not. Ok. Fair play. His view. How do you other guys*** feel about it?

6) He misses the point in picking up expressions like 'Victory!' as being uncommon. They are uncommon everywhere bar secret revolutionary societies in bad films. The writer was trying to mimic what he or she thought would be in a ransom letter.

7) The writer was deliberately trying to sound foreign, as indicated by the risibly misspelt words at the beginning of the letter.

8) More later.


* Got piggy-cold but the oinkment is working. Ho ho ho!

** I love the quote about refusing to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

*** An example of American idiom being used by a Brit. 'You lot' would be far more common.