TN TN - Kathy Jones, 12, Nashville, 29 Nov 1969 #1

MrsTigglesworth said:

Just checking in, hope you are feeling better soon, December!

That is a pretty specific thing to cut the liner out of a coat! I do wonder if there might have been a movie or book that referenced this? Or if it is taught in survival training... And as well... How many crimes involve this tactic.

I can't really find anything online, but I am probably not using the right search terms...

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thank you for the get well wishes..
:loveyou:

Coat lining.. the reason a person might chose to use that (if they are using a victim's clothing) is it's a big piece of fabric without seams that might tear. coat linings are usually made of fairly durable fabric.

In Christine Rotschild's case, maybe something disturbed the perp before he raped her and he ran away. :twocents:

I think I've read accounts in murder cases of adults, where the victim was strangled or gagged using clothing. I'd never heard of coat lining being used until now I think, but I agree with December - it might be less illogical than we think. Coat linings are made of durable material and are easier to tear neatly than for example cutting a strip of outer material from clothing since that's generally a harder kind of fabric in comparison (especially in clothes worn in weather that would require a lined coat) or taking off a piece of clothing from the victim.

It could be the same perp maybe he just had that 'new' idea and changed what he used or in Christine's case it just happened to be easier to use coat lining.

These cases are truly heartbreaking and sad.

Regarding the library thing, December, you're right, it's easier to send things now so unless it's a document that can't be scanned or photographed without very specific material (like very old books or manuscripts for example) or unless it's an extremely important library with lots of bureaucracy then it's easier than it used to be to get a copy of what we need.

Veidt said:

In Christine Rotschild's case, maybe something disturbed the perp before he raped her and he ran away. :twocents:

I think I've read accounts in murder cases of adults, where the victim was strangled or gagged using clothing. I'd never heard of coat lining being used until now I think, but I agree with December - it might be less illogical than we think. Coat linings are made of durable material and are easier to tear neatly than for example cutting a strip of outer material from clothing since that's generally a harder kind of fabric in comparison (especially in clothes worn in weather that would require a lined coat) or taking off a piece of clothing from the victim.

It could be the same perp maybe he just had that 'new' idea and changed what he used or in Christine's case it just happened to be easier to use coat lining.

These cases are truly heartbreaking and sad.

Regarding the library thing, December, you're right, it's easier to send things now so unless it's a document that can't be scanned or photographed without very specific material (like very old books or manuscripts for example) or unless it's an extremely important library with lots of bureaucracy then it's easier than it used to be to get a copy of what we need.

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Kathy's case is more recent than Christine's (Kathy was in 1969, Christine in 1968). It was the lining in Kathy's case. and Christine's.

The Banner (which, I know) says that pieces of the coat lining were cut out and used to bind Kathy's hands.

IDK if it is the same perp, but there are a number of similarities.

edited to add

i mean piecues were cut, not just ripped out in Kathy's case. I guess Christine's too.

respectfully snipped

Veidt said:

In Christine Rotschild's case, maybe something disturbed the perp before he raped her and he ran away. :twocents:

I think I've read accounts in murder cases of adults, where the victim was strangled or gagged using clothing. I'd never heard of coat lining being used until now I think, but I agree with December - it might be less illogical than we think. Coat linings are made of durable material and are easier to tear neatly than for example cutting a strip of outer material from clothing since that's generally a harder kind of fabric in comparison (especially in clothes worn in weather that would require a lined coat) or taking off a piece of clothing from the victim.

It could be the same perp maybe he just had that 'new' idea and changed what he used or in Christine's case it just happened to be easier to use coat lining.

These cases are truly heartbreaking and sad.

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Contrary to what we might think, rapists sometimes are impotent, or suffer some degree of sexual dysfunction. When that's true, the attack is often characterized by exaggerated violence and "overkill". We've discussed piquerism in this thread, where stabbing substitutes for the physical act. In some cases foreign objects are used as a replacement for the phallus.

Abstract: Sexual dysfunction is known to occur in a proportion of rapists during the assault. The most common dysfunctions are erectile insufficiency and absent or retarded ejaculation. The study assessed the incidence and characteristics of assailants' sexual dysfunction reported by 50 victims of rape. 20% of victims reported that their assailant experienced erectile insufficiency at some point during the assault, and a further 12% reported retarded ejaculation or failure to ejaculate by their attacker. In attacks where sexual dysfunction occurred, there was a higher incidence both of intra-rape violence and commissioning of degrading sexual activity and this behaviour was related to the onset of the dysfunction. It was felt that the pattern of behaviour reported in those attacks where rapists' sexual dysfunction occurred might reflect a typologically distinct subgroup of offender. This finding has implications both for the safety of the victim during the attack and subsequent offender assessment.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1795615

OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to determine whether the presence of coercion, physical violence, and genital injury associated with sexual assaults is influenced by the assailant's erectile impotence.

CONCLUSION: Erectile impotence occurred in up to 8% of sexual assailants during the rape episode. Despite this erectile dysfunction, the majority of sexual assault victims sustained anogenital trauma. In the attacks with erectile impotence, there was a higher incidence of intra-rape violence and subsequent non-genital injuries.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19232872

Regarding victims' clothing used in attacks, that is seen in many sexually driven murders. Sometimes it's incidental, in other cases it relates directly to the killer's motivation. I think that's true of Michigan Co-Ed Murderer, John Norman Collins, where the use of his victims' clothing was a "signature". (BTW, Collins was arrested in July, 1969, so could not have been Kathy's killer.) Anyway, without going any further off track, I'll just say that I find using the coat lining to be unusual -- and coupled with the gloves in the throat, and the timeframe -- to be noteworthy, but not necessarily an indication of a common killer.

It's also important to note that in the years between 1966-1973, a rash of murders of young women took place in the Milwaukee area. CR was killed in Madison, and from 1976 through 1984, a number of other young women would be killed in Madison, WI (Capital City Murders). Personally, I think CR's murder is unrelated to the CCM, and should be included in the first group. At any rate, most victims of the unsolved murders from 1966-1973 were stabbed numerous times. CR is on the low end at 14 stab wounds, while Diane Olkwitz was stabbed over 100 times. As we know, multiple stab wounds was not a element of KJ's murder. (On the other hand, one commonality noted by detectives at the time was the proximity to railroad tracks in some of the murders.)

FWIW, I'm referring to these unsolved Wisconsin murders.:

Diane Olkwitz, 1966, Menomonee Falls, stabbed 106 times
Mary Ellen Kaldenberg, 1967, Kenosha, stabbed 12 times
Christine Rothschild, 1968, Madison, stabbed 14 times
Stephanie Casberg, 1969, Milwaukee, dismembered
Terri Erdmann 1971, Milwaukee, stabbed 50 times
Elizabeth Flannery, 1972, Portage, stabbed 30 times and survived
Cynthia Allen, 1972, Marinette, undetermined due to decomposition
Tina Davidson, 1973, Racine, stabbed 60 times

http://php.wisinfo.com/mktg/unsolved_apc/

bessie said:

Contrary to what we might think, rapists sometimes are impotent, or suffer some degree of sexual dysfunction. When that's true, the attack is often characterized by exggerated violence and "overkill". We've discussed piquerism in this thread, where stabbing substitutes for the physical act. In some cases foreign objects are used as a replacement for the phallus.

Click to expand...

I'm aware of that, I just didn't want to be too graphic since I don't know if it's the against the rules and I was in a rush, hence my 'something disturbed him' - as in, maybe it was something about his own sexual dysfunction that disturbed him or maybe some noise that alarmed him and made him think someone was nearby - I kept it vague because in my head the wording worked for both things, I hope this makes sense.

Anyway your post is really informative so thank you, I didn't know there was such a high correlation between pieces of clothing being used and sexually driven murders.

December said:

Kathy's case is more recent than Christine's (Kathy was in 1969, Christine in 1968). It was the lining in Kathy's case. and Christine's.

The Banner (which, I know) says that pieces of the coat lining were cut out and used to bind Kathy's hands.

IDK if it is the same perp, but there are a number of similarities.

edited to add

i mean piecues were cut, not just ripped out in Kathy's case. I guess Christine's too.

Click to expand...

Thank you. This makes a lot of sense and yes, I think it could have been the same perp, as you said there are a lot of similarities and two girls in a similar age range getting murdered with the perp using the same material to bind their hands etc. sounds like too big a coincidence. :twocents:

Sorry I got the dates wrong. I've been so busy and on top of that I think I'm coming down with a flu so it's hard to think straight.

bessie said:

respectfully snipped
Contrary to what we might think, rapists sometimes are impotent, or suffer some degree of sexual dysfunction. When that's true, the attack is often characterized by exggerated violence and "overkill". We've discussed piquerism in this thread, where stabbing substitutes for the physical act. In some cases foreign objects are used as a replacement for the phallus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1795615
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19232872

Regarding victims' clothing used in attacks, that is seen in many sexually driven murders. Sometimes it's incidental, in other cases it relates directly to the killer's motivation. I think that's true of Michigan Co-Ed Murderer, John Norman Collins, where the use of his victims' clothing was a "signature". (BTW, Collins was arrested in July, 1969, so could not have been Kathy's killer.) Anyway, without going any further off track, I'll just say that I find using the coat lining to be unusual -- and coupled with the gloves in the throat, and the timeframe -- to be noteworthy, but not necessarily an indication of a common killer.

It's also important to note that in the years between 1966-1973, a rash of murders of young women took place in the Milwaukee area. CR was killed in Madison, and from 1976 through 1984, a number of other young women would be killed in Madison, WI (Capital City Murders). Personally, I think CR's murder is unrelated to the CCM, and should be included in the first group. At any rate, most victims of the unsolved murders from 1966-1973 were stabbed numerous times. CR is on the low end at 14 stab wounds, while Diane Olkwitz was stabbed over 100 times. As we know, multiple stab wounds was not a element of KJ's murder. (On the other hand, one commonality noted by detectives at the time was the proximity to railroad tracks in some of the murders.)

FWIW, I'm referring to these unsolved Wisconsin murders.:

Diane Olkwitz, 1966, Menomonee Falls, stabbed 106 times
Mary Ellen Kaldenberg, 1967, Kenosha, stabbed 12 times
Christine Rothschild, 1968, Madison, stabbed 14 times
Stephanie Casberg, 1969, Milwaukee, dismembered
Terri Erdmann 1971, Milwaukee, stabbed 50 times
Elizabeth Flannery, 1972, Portage, stabbed 30 times and survived
Cynthia Allen, 1972, Marinette, undetermined due to decomposition
Tina Davidson, 1973, Racine, stabbed 60 times

http://php.wisinfo.com/mktg/unsolved_apc/

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Honestly, I think there were a number of serial killers operating during this time period. I think they had their favorite hunting grounds.

These are all horrible murders.

I was aware of some were impotent and some of the other horrible things that happen when they assault people. Even sometimes in cases where there doesn't seem to be a sexual element.. there is. But, we can't say some things on here as plainly as maybe it has to be said to be completely understood.

With the number of stab wounds these poor girls endured in these Wisconsin cases, then I think the murderer(s) probably did have sexual disfunction even worse than most murderers.

Thank you for telling me Collins is incarcerated at the time Kathy was murdered. That saves some time.

Also, while I think from the back that Kathy may have looked older.. I don't know if she could have looked old enough to be in college and, while there are several colleges in Nashville (or were.. some closed since then), she wasn't all that close to any of them.

However, there were MAJOR train tracks not that far away in two different directions. So, if that is an element in these.. then I will say that feature was present although not discussed much in this thread.

Veidt said:

I'm aware of that, I just didn't want to be too graphic since I don't know if it's the against the rules and I was in a rush, hence my 'something disturbed him' - as in, maybe it was something about his own sexual dysfunction that disturbed him or maybe some noise that alarmed him and made him think someone was nearby - I kept it vague because in my head the wording worked for both things, I hope this makes sense.

Anyway your post is really informative so thank you, I didn't know there was such a high correlation between pieces of clothing being used and sexually driven murders.



Thank you. This makes a lot of sense and yes, I think it could have been the same perp, as you said there are a lot of similarities and two girls in a similar age range getting murdered with the perp using the same material to bind their hands etc. sounds like too big a coincidence. :twocents:

Sorry I got the dates wrong. I've been so busy and on top of that I think I'm coming down with a flu so it's hard to think straight.

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OMG! Don't get the flu! (prays quickly)

I know this is not written down anywhere important.. but I really believe these evil murders/child molesters/perverts/rapists know others of the same stripe. Maybe not always, but sometimes. And word of good techniques get around among the group. So, some similarities will show in different areas because they are trying out the same ideas. I do not know where the idea originate and I think there must be some place they got them.

I was watching a video from an FBI profiler and he said any time the police find an evil rapist pedophile that the police should look at the evil pedo's cookbook. He said they write "recipes" that are not what they appear to be at first glance.

Different people from the FBI have said that some of the things we hear are very simplified versions of how it really is. (By the way, I am just saying this..it is not a rebuttal to anything anyone said.. I just try to always remember when thinking of possibilities that the FBI says this.. even their very best people.)

This is why we see Adcox doing and saying things that conventional wisdom says he would not do or say. But, he did because that is just who and what Adcox is. (He is still a suspect, for certain and absolutely.) I wonder.. did Adcox have a cookbook? What all crazy stuff did the police find on him (some unrelated to Kathy)? I just think of all of the innocent kids riding that bus and I want to cry. Did Adcox share information with other people who his same ilk?

The lining of the coat thing... I believe it is partly because when they take the coat off the victim they just rip it off and it probably winds up wrong side out half the time.. so they see the lining. This is not how coat are usually removed, of course, so it is hard to imagine how they see it.

hi, i'm still sickly.. but i wanted to say hello and thank you for reading.

December said:

hi, i'm still sickly.. but i wanted to say hello and thank you for reading.

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Take care of yourself and rest up .... you have done a lot ... I dont have much to post lately but I check here on a regular basis .... still working a bit on some theories and when winter sets in I will post some of it.

Last time I looked this thread has over 32,000 views .... so that in itself is good ... brings some comfort knowing Kathy is not forgotten.

She has captured our hearts.

Arnie M said:

Take care of yourself and rest up .... you have done a lot ... I dont have much to post lately but I check here on a regular basis .... still working a bit on some theories and when winter sets in I will post some of it.

Last time I looked this thread has over 32,000 views .... so that in itself is good ... brings some comfort knowing Kathy is not forgotten.

She has captured our hearts.

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Thank you, Arnie M.. that is so nice of you to say.

I am so happy Kathy's story is touching to other people. Sometimes we felt really alone... like it was a secret or something.. it's strange and hard to describe. I wish more of my family was still alive.. they didn't know that much about the crime, but they knew Kathy before it happened.

I have been thinking about the roller skating rink...

From what I understand, one man owned the entire building and ran a few different businesses from the building (as well as having businesses elsewhere around Nashville). I am just thinking.. back then, it would be pretty standard for a lot of people to have a four day weekend for the Thanksgiving holiday.

In this man's case, the insulation business would more than likely be closed. The roller rink was open. I don't know about the baton classes.. it seems as if they might be closed, but if they marched in a parade there might have been a special practice session.

However, anyone who worked in the building would know everyone else's schedules. If a certain part of the building was going to be closed for four days, then anyone who worked in the building would know that.

If she was taken from the rink itself rather than out walking that would explain why no one saw anything. Roller skating rinks are loud, so even if she managed a brief scream.. the murderer could be pretty certain no one would hear....

The insulation company might be a good place to stash her as the murderer plotted his next move. The may be where particles got on her coat. But, they didn't spend too much time there as I imagine the police at the time did look at the place...

I don't know... the proximity to the Thanksgiving weekend has me thinking...

Thanksgiving now and then are really different, I know...

One thing that would have been different for Kathy was the mall that had opened up only a year before.. bringing more traffic and more strangers through her neighborhood...

Arnie M said:

Take care of yourself and rest up .... you have done a lot ... I dont have much to post lately but I check here on a regular basis .... still working a bit on some theories and when winter sets in I will post some of it.

Last time I looked this thread has over 32,000 views .... so that in itself is good ... brings some comfort knowing Kathy is not forgotten.

She has captured our hearts.

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Sorry, I went off on a tangent on my previous reply.

I appreciate what you have written. It is very kind.

I really means a lot to me when someone spends time trying to help Kathy. I believe her case can be solved. I don't know exactly what piece of information the police need..but I know they have investigated the case thoroughly and many different detectives.. some of high rank.. have worked the case.

I think Kathy's story and Kathy touch a lot of people's heart if they give her a chance. We've all been that kid going off to do something fun with a little extra money to buy a treat.. everyone has done this... even Kathy had done it before without incident.

Even the murderer was once, in that same place.. a kid going to do something fun with a little extra money for a treat...

I am tangenting again!

I look forward to seeing what research you've put together when you have a chance to post it.

Hope you are starting to feel better, December!

Has anything developed to the point where there might be some "anniversary" coverage in local media coming up, you think?

December, I know nothing much about the fellow who does the blog linked below -- it appears he is some sort of crime writer...?

Anyhow, I ran across his blog and noticed that he has, from time to time, done posts about crimes from the Nashville area (I think he has some sort of link to the area), so I did a search, but found nothing on his blog about Kathy.

Just wondered if you might want to ask him if he would feature her case?

http://kidnappingmurderandmayhem.blogspot.com/

December, thank you for your good wishes regarding my flu! I didn't get it but I'm feeling sickly all the time. I hope you're feeling better yourself. :cupcake:

I haven't made much progress in reading the thread though I hope I will over the next few days.

I have a question, I don't know if I've asked this before but... why is there the theory that Kathy could have been abducted from inside the rink or on the way back?

From what I understand she was meeting her friends. I believe that if she had met them, we would know, because part of the investigation would be asking the last people who saw her alive and... if they had seen her, that info would be divulged since it would narrow down the time frame of the crime. Or maybe they kept it quiet on purpose to bait the perp?

I think that since we don't know, it's likely the friends never saw her, so, what they said was never made public because they didn't say anything that narrowed it down. Maybe it happened when she was on the way there. Or perhaps, she was already inside the rink but the perp found her before she could meet up with her friends.

I also wonder if the reason why we don't know about whether her friends saw her is that maybe she didn't arrange to meet any specific friends but just friends in general who would have been there? When I was a kid, sometimes my friends and I didn't arrange to meet anywhere, we just went to our usual hang out and found each other there. So maybe it was just something everyone knew, that they would meet each other at the rink because it was the place to be. Or maybe her friends were friends she made at the rink instead of at school or her street, so she just expected to meet up with them there. I hope this makes sense. Maybe that's why we don't know about whether her friends saw her, because we don't know which friends would have been there, or even if any friends were there or ended up arriving earlier or later or staying home because there weren't definite plans and just the assumption she'd probably run into friends while there.

:twocents:

I'm still reading through this thread as you can tell from this post.

nerosleuth said:

I would also check to see if the Nashville area property tax records are online. From the property tax records, you should be able to see a transfer history of a property. It may be able to tell you who owned the roller skating rink and it should tell you if a corporation or a franchise owned the donut store,

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I just looked this up to check. I have found this: http://www.nashville.gov/Register-of-Deeds/Receive-Document-Copies/By-email.aspx .

I don't know if this is the same as tax property records, however from what I understand it's property deeds. I think this would tell you who owned what. You can request documents to be sent to you via e-mail (it's the page I quoted), snail mail, fax, or get them in person.

Just a few thoughts about this:

- This is paid. It's cheap since it's only a few dollars per document but it would probably add up when trying to check who owned the Krispy Kreme and the roller skating rink. So it wouldn't really tell us who owned every property in the area. But it's a start and I think it would be worth it.

- The site has another service, which is a subscription where you can view all documents on your browser for a set fee. Maybe someone on the forum might have a subscription and be able to look up the registry for the houses and for other businesses in the area. I know a few members have memberships on records websites.

- There's another thing I'd like to point out. I don't know enough about legal records, much less US ones, to know this. However where I live, you don't have to own the space where you run a business. I don't know if I'm explaining this right, but for example, let's say I wanted to start a book shop and call it Books. I'd own Books but I could just rent a place for Books. Like when people own a company and rent an office, or when the adults of a family rent a house. I don't know if such a thing would come up in property deeds but I guess it would. I also think that the roller rink location would probably be owned by the owner of the business itself. I don't know about Krispy Kreme, however the name sounds familiar to me from American TV and movies, so I think it might be a chain shop and where I live large chains are more likely to own their venues.

I just noticed it's the anniversary of Kathy's disappearance.

(Well... it is where I live since I can't sleep. But by the time most of you read this it will be November 29 for you as well.)

It's sad that it's been 44 years and this case still hasn't been solved. :sigh: I hope it's solved eventually and that maybe next year, someone who knows something about the case comes forward. My thoughts are with you December, I hope you and your family get the closure you need soon.

---


Another thing I've seen mentioned a few times is that it was Thanksgiving Weekend when she disappeared so more people might be visiting town that normally would live elsewhere.

I don't how Thanksgiving weekend works so I have a few questions, I hope that's ok.

I looked up the 1969 calendar here: http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1969&country=1

It says Thanksgiving was on November 27, a Thursday. So I assume Thanksgiving weekend would be that day, then Friday (28), Saturday (29), and Sunday (30). Maybe also the Wednesday before (26) for people to travel out to their families.

Would Thanksgiving weekend also include the following Monday (December 1)? It seems odd to me somehow, that Thanksgiving Weekend would end up including so many days after Thanksgiving proper and beyond the weekend.

Kathy disappeared on Saturday, November 29. Then she was missing and was found on December 2, with reports indicating the coroner said she had been killed on December 1.

So for her to have been killed on December 1, and then for her body to have been left behind the Krispy Kreme between then and the next day, I think it may not have been someone from out of town. I assume that people who were from out of town would have had to go home on Sunday at the latest to go back to work on Monday.

It sounds to me like Thanksgiving is a bit like Christmas, in that people go to visit their families or in-laws. Am I correct? Someone who was from out of town and abducted Kathy would probably need to be able to hide it from the people they were staying with. This is what comes to mind:

a) Someone who had the means to have his own house in Nashville while also living somewhere else, so they wouldn't have to stay as guests at a whole family's house. Maybe someone who was single. Or someone who stayed in that separate house with their wife and children, but was very good at hiding things from them or was so abusive they didn't ask questions.

b) Someone who was renting a motel room or a flat for the holidays. Was that common in 1960s Nashville? I don't think a hotel, B&B, etc. would be likely, since even if the perp was confident about lying and pretending Kathy was his daughter, it would have been harder to hide her and to keep her identity hidden once the townspeople heard about the case. Someone would have come forward from among the staff, IMO. So if the perp was renting a place for Thanksgiving, it would have to be a question where less staff would be checking in on the guests.

c) Someone who grew up in the area, and as such, knew of hiding spots or even had an accomplice. Maybe even something like this, the perp has a childhood friend who still lives in Nashville but is away visiting in-laws, so the perp and asks to borrow the friend's house for a couple of days, maybe even for a fake reason. Or maybe someone who has very old relatives in a nursing home or who don't ask many questions, so the perp can have his childhood home all to himself, or at least sneak around without his family noticing.

This is just what I think. I believe that someone who didn't grow up there and was just visiting in-laws, unless he was very familiar with the area by now, would have a harder time finding a place to hide Kathy.

Another important factor that comes to mind: were certain careers more or less likely to give someone that Monday and/or Tuesday some time off? Because if someone was still in town by then, provided what I said about people having to go back to their jobs on Monday is correct, then that could narrow it down somewhat if we're looking into the theory that someone who was in Nashville only temporarily did it.

Could it have been the reverse? Someone who works in Nashville lies and says he's going to be out of town to visit his family, but stays right there.

Sorry if this is very long or if any of this has been repeated, I'm trying to process all the info!

Yes, Veidt, it is the anniversary.

December, I was just stopping by to let you know I will be thinking of Kathy extra-much on this date, and of you. I hope you had a blessed and restful Thanksgiving Day.

Veidt said:

I don't how Thanksgiving weekend works so I have a few questions, I hope that's ok.

I looked up the 1969 calendar here: http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1969&country=1

It says Thanksgiving was on November 27, a Thursday. So I assume Thanksgiving weekend would be that day, then Friday (28), Saturday (29), and Sunday (30). Maybe also the Wednesday before (26) for people to travel out to their families.

Would Thanksgiving weekend also include the following Monday (December 1)? It seems odd to me somehow, that Thanksgiving Weekend would end up including so many days after Thanksgiving proper and beyond the weekend.

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<respectfully snipped for focus>

Veidt, the US Thanksgiving holiday always falls on Thursday. Most businesses are closed for Thanksgiving Day -- many, especially stores, etc., reopen on Friday (especially nowadays, with the big "Black Friday" pre-Christmas shopping madness!)

I don't know about Nashville or other areas (if we're considering out-of-towners in for a visit) but in my area, in the 1960s/70s, we usually had Thursday and Friday off from school for Thanksgiving, then went back on Monday. Nowadays, many schools give the entire week of Thanksgiving as a break, however.

I do know a good many people who, even though their jobs only officially have Thursday or maybe Thursday and Friday as holidays, take personal time off, if they have some, around the Thanksgiving holiday -- either the whole week of Thanksgiving or perhaps Friday (if it is not a paid holiday for them), then they have the weekend, and then perhaps another day or two the next week. Some people do that, I think, to get a jump on their Christmas shopping and preparations. Not everyone does (or can), though.

And yes, Thanksgiving is a big family-gathering time for many, and many folks do travel to family gatherings, etc.

Hope this helps a little!

Backwoods said:

<respectfully snipped for focus>

Veidt, the US Thanksgiving holiday always falls on Thursday. Most businesses are closed for Thanksgiving Day -- many, especially stores, etc., reopen on Friday (especially nowadays, with the big "Black Friday" pre-Christmas shopping madness!)

I don't know about Nashville or other areas (if we're considering out-of-towners in for a visit) but in my area, in the 1960s/70s, we usually had Thursday and Friday off from school for Thanksgiving, then went back on Monday. Nowadays, many schools give the entire week of Thanksgiving as a break, however.

I do know a good many people who, even though their jobs only officially have Thursday or maybe Thursday and Friday as holidays, take personal time off, if they have some, around the Thanksgiving holiday -- either the whole week of Thanksgiving or perhaps Friday (if it is not a paid holiday for them), then they have the weekend, and then perhaps another day or two the next week. Some people do that, I think, to get a jump on their Christmas shopping and preparations. Not everyone does (or can), though.

And yes, Thanksgiving is a big family-gathering time for many, and many folks do travel to family gatherings, etc.

Hope this helps a little!

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Thank you, I think I understand now. So Thanksgiving week is the week on which Thanksgiving falls, or is it Thursday to Thursday? If this makes sense.

I still think that if someone was from out of town and just visiting, they'd have to be able to keep Kathy hidden for some time - between the time she went missing, until her body was found on December 2. This could be at home or somewhere else, but either way would indicate to me that this was someone who knew the area very well, well enough to be able to do so without raising the suspicions of an entire family! I also believe it's more likely that the perp was visiting his family and not in-laws, I can't imagine many in-laws making excuses or ignoring strange stuff like the perp possibly disappearing from time to time, whereas I believe that someone's parents would be more likely to. Not to mention, someone who grew up in the area would have an easier time seeming less suspicious, as he could pretend he was visiting a friend's house or going to places he liked growing up.

I'm sorry if it seems disrespectful to be trying to analyze the case on this date, to me at least, it seems like the best way to pay homage to Kathy is to try to bring some justice to her memory and her family by helping to solve this case in any way we can. (I just thought I'd explain in case it seemed disrespectful to anyone.)