MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #17

cannot wait to relocate away from StL -- this is the last straw

When the leaders were better.

Or is it deja vu all over again?

http://www.uscrossier.org/pullias/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/king.pdf

In ANY nonviolent campaign there are four basic steps: collection of facts to determine whether injustices are alive, negotiation, self purification, and direct action......but the political leaders consistently refused to engage in good-faith negotiation.

~MLK


I see nonviolent and violent campaigning in Ferguson. Other than the GJ, no one wants the 'facts', I don't see anyone trying to negotiate anything, only demanding their wants.

She also criticized police for cracking down on what she said were largely peaceful protests.“We found out that the people who were looting were not from Ferguson, they were people from outside the community to take advantage of the situation,” she said.

So, what were the police supposed to do- ask for ID like bar bouncers, let the looters rob and the cocktails fly if they weren't locals....?

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/go...tml?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Dana said:

In ANY nonviolent campaign there are four basic steps: collection of facts to determine whether injustices are alive, negotiation, self purification, and direct action......but the political leaders consistently refused to engage in good-faith negotiation.

~MLK


I see nonviolent and violent campaigning in Ferguson. Other than the GJ, no one wants the 'facts', I don't see anyone trying to negotiate anything, only demanding their wants.

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Is disrupting traffic on a major Interstate corridor of interstate commerce considered to be non-violent? At least one ambulance was present today and my assumption is that it--and the EMS personnel assigned to it--were there because of injury.

While I've seen plenty of demands of 'wants' I've seen zero "good faith" negotiation. That's a myth.

reedus23 said:

Isn't that how our government is set up to an extent? I would like to think that the people I elect are are trying to effectuate the changes I think are important. I would hope the same holds true for each of us. Aren't we supposed to take our concerns to politicians?

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No, our government has never been "set up" to address extortion threats and never will. You might want to review the Patriot Act. GMAB.

krimekat said:

cannot wait to relocate away from StL -- this is the last straw

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I wouldn't move just because of this incident unless you are in Ferguson. I just don't see leaders caving to these ridiculous demands.

MyBelle said:

I wouldn't move just because of this incident unless you are in Ferguson. I just don't see leaders caving to these ridiculous demands.

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I think it will be akin to how some other cities dealt with similar problems; eliminate the blocks/neighborhoods of section 8 housing, leaving little affordable housing- effectively causing the majority of poor to have to leave the area.

human said:

When the leaders were better.

Or is it deja vu all over again?

http://www.uscrossier.org/pullias/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/king.pdf

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I havent seen any one of the characters involved in this case that can hold a candle to MLK. :candle:

Just reading thru some of the hashtags and... it's not just the stupidity of the comments but also where they are sending them too... example:

Ok @CNN they got what they wanted, white witnesses, so why hasn't that *advertiser censored* #DarrenWilson been arrested? @ABC@msnbc@USATODAY@CBSNews

:gaah:

[h=1]Young black man warns Ferguson’s white establishment: ‘We’ve got the power — you don’t’[/h]
“It is time for us to get suited and booted and kick their you-know-whats out of office,” he said. “We’ve got the power — they don’t. We’re trying to figure out how this man, that man, the old man — the Man, the Man, the Man up there on his iPad who don’t care what we have to say. How do we get him out? We vote him out! We recall him out!”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/...te-establishment-weve-got-the-power-you-dont/

Montjoy said:

Perhaps so, but they are a very, very small minority of the population of Ferguson. You'd be willing to sacrifice the safety of all of the innocent, law-abiding majority because of a handful of people who break the law? Something seems very wrong about that to me. Aren't police paid to protect the innocent from those who break the law?

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There are times when the risk, emotional undermining, & lack of support = not enough pay in the world

popsicle said:

Are there any 9/11 memorial events planned in the area tomorrow.... anyone local know?

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i'm not a local/don't know - but you reminded me of something. i hit the ceiling every time i hear them say "ground zero". to equate the 2 is wrong wrong wrong.

today is a very solemn day that should include remembrance and prayers - hopefully the protestors will go to church, hug their kids, do something nice for somebody else - and show some r . e . s . p . e . c . t

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/

New contractor witnesses say MB's hands were up. Video on this page.

Montjoy said:

Perhaps so, but they are a very, very small minority of the population of Ferguson.

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A minority of criminals that have the SUPPORT of the majority! Huge difference!

Sonya610 said:

A minority of criminals that have the SUPPORT of the majority! Huge difference!

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& don't forget (if the news reports are accurate) that they have the support/attendance of mike brown sr. that imo speaks volumes.

i wonder if they're dismayed that they're not getting the msm coverage like they did in the past - & that part of today's plan is to make headlines.

they've already implanted the ground 0 slogan - so today's their day to do it.

Muffet said:

I just saw CNN's hatched reporting of this, and had to come check in here about it.

:Gaah: I don't believe for a moment that they "accidentally" left out this part of the construction workers' versions.

From http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/cr...5deb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html?mobile_touch=true

Wilson, gun drawn, also stopped about 10 feet in front of Brown, the worker said.

Then Brown moved, the worker said. “He’s kind of walking back toward the cop.” He said Brown’s hands were still up.

Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.

After the third shot, Brown’s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched — about 50 feet away — if Brown’s motion toward Wilson after the shots was “a stumble to the ground” or “OK, I’m going to get you, you’re already shooting me.”

​

Either the witness was spinning to CNN*, or the reporter at CNN intentionally left out nearly all of the above.


Neither would surprise me. CNN has been spinning from day 1, and the witness account sounds very honky to me, considering some of the things he said. Seriously, who "stumbles 25 feet?"
Add his OMG his arms were up! And the fact that it doesn't even mesh with the audiotape CNN put out.

This case and all the people enabling if not intentionally encouraging victim cards are putting me in a mood. Their nonsense has bad consequences for every American. SMH

Sent via Tapatalk for S4

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So very shocked that they left that part out of their spin

Except, no, I'm really not

katydid23 said:

it makes me agitated when I hear things like " ...protesters said the presence of riot-ready police officers ... agitated many in the crowd."

Seriously? THAT was what agitated them? Because I watched them speaking last night and plenty of them were already fully agitated. They cannot blame protective riot gear for their agitation.

I understand their complaints about the cops pointing rifles at them. But protective shields? Why shouldnt the officers get to protect themselves from incoming bricks and glass bottles?

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What's their excuse for being agitated at the city council meeting?

Men in coats and ties and women in dresses? :facepalm:

Lovejac said:

So very shocked that they left that part out of their spin

Except, no, I'm really not

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I've been trying to make sense of the construction guys' descriptions of what they saw. Trying to correlate their reports with those of other witnesses and what we know from other evidence.


And CS2 was interviewed by the St. L. Post-Dispatch

CNN, in their inimitable fashion, quote both the CWs but don't clearly distinguish which one is which:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/index.html





How far away were they? According to Fox2Now, CW1 "immediately wrote down what he saw. He also drew a diagram showing him and his co-worker about 50 yards away." But it's being widely reported that they were 50 feet away.

The difference between 50 feet and 50 yards is... well... 100 feet. That's a pretty big difference insofar as what they'd have been able to see and hear.

What exactly did they see?

On MB running away:

CW1 says “I saw him staggering and running"
CW2 says he saw Brown running away from a police car.
One of the CWs told CNN, Brown "put his hands up," the construction worker said, and "the officer was chasing him."

I'm trying to picture putting up my hands while being chased. I just can't visualize it.

On MB turning and moving back toward OW:

CW1 says Brown was “…kind of walking back toward the cop,” his “hands were still up” and the witness described Officer Wilson “backing up as he fired.”

CW2 says, Then Brown moved, the worker said. “He’s kind of walking back toward the cop.” He said Brown’s hands were still up. Wilson began backing up as he fired. After the third shot, Brown’s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched — about 50 feet away — if Brown’s motion toward Wilson after the shots was “a stumble to the ground” or “OK, I’m going to get you, you’re already shooting me.”

My thoughts:

Whichever one claims to have seen "his brains come out of his head" is already suspect purely because of that. As far as I know, no brains came out of MB's head, and it's highly highly doubtful the CW could have seen that happen from where they were, if it did happen. But I'm not sure which one claims to have seen the brains.

CS1's statement that says he threw his hands up and started screaming OK OK OK OK OK and then the three officers come through the thing and the one just started shooting. That's also suspect. In his version, 3 officers were present before the final barrage of gunfire. We're pretty sure that's not the case.

Per CNN, one CW (I don't know which one) said that after the third shot Brown's hands started coming down. If that audio of the gunfire is authentic, I don't know how he could be that specific about the "third shot." I sure couldn't.

The CW seen on video holding his arms "up" -- I agree with the people describing that as more holding his arms "out." The CW's arm positions were not that of surrender, IMO. If that's an accurate representation of how MB was holding his arms, it's not indicative of surrendering.

Brady had said earlier that MB had his arms sort of hugging his abdomen, never saw MB's arms up and that if MB ever had his arms up that Brady missed seeing that part. CW guy says arms up/out. The overheard-guy on the Black Canseco recording made no mention of arms up or out. DJ, PC & TM all said "arms up."

Both CWs say that MB was moving back toward OW. One says "walking back toward the cop," the other CW says he moved about 25 feet toward OW and that it was either “a stumble to the ground” or “OK, I’m going to get you, you’re already shooting me.”

Even PC, in one of her interviews, admits that MB was moving back toward OW -- although in her version, it was only about a centimeter.

Both CWs say there was a shot fired while MB was fleeing. So do PC & TM, and DJ. I don't recall what Brady said, if anything, about that. The Black Canseco overheard-guy made no mention of any gunfire while MB was fleeing. Based on the audio of the gunfire, I can't figure out when this could have occurred. The shots were all in very quick succession, with only that one very brief pause after 6 rounds.


Obviously, these witness accounts can't all be right. DJ, PC & TM are so dubious that I have to disregard their statements altogether. That leaves Black Canseco overheard-guy, CWs 1 & 2, and Brady. Plus Josie's second-hand account -- which I tend to give credibility to because it revealed details that were later confirmed by physical evidence and additional witnesses.

What I'm left with is, after the assault at the car, and the gunshot there, it's certain that MB fled. OW may or may not have fired at least once while MB was fleeing. It's remotely possible (IMO) that a shot from behind may have grazed the inside of MB's arm, but I don't think so. At some point, MB realized he was being chased (and possibly shot at), and that he wasn't going to get away. MB turned around and began advancing toward OW. When MB turned around, he may have had his arms up or out, or down around his abdomen, or somewhere else altogether. As MB advanced toward OW, OW probably backed up, and he continued to fire until MB fell dead -- probably within just a few feet of OW.

That's enough for me. OW was legitimately in fear for his life at the time he fired the fatal shots. They can stop rioting and threatening now, and go on home.

Linda7NJ said:

Id love a little demo of "swell up"

I imagine it looks similar to how he intimated that shopkeep.

And another niggling....I'm wondering if it wasn't Brown that at some point grabbed Wilson by the neck?

He grabbed the shopkeeper's neck area and neck grabbing was certainly on DJ's mind...he claimed Wilson grabbed Brown by the neck....but not a mark on Brown....

Interesting.....



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Klood-N said:

Hm.

Officer Darren Wilson also reportedly suffered injuries to his face and neck.
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/21/fox-2...-from-witnesses-of-fatal-mike-brown-shooting/

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Isn't there usually a little bit of truth in every lie?