MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

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Trojan1966 said:
You can believe this if you want. You can have your conclusions and I'll stick with mine. I believe they were generally referring to all tested people. An inconclusive polygraph isn't really a pass or a failure thus it is usually disregarded.
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I didn't mean to tell anyone what to believe and what not. I keep all possibilities open, but I think the meaning "Everyone that has been polygraphed at this point has not only
cooperated with the investigation but passed the polygraph." is clear. Surely, if you have been polygraphed, and it was inconclusive, then you still have been polygraphed.
However, the detective could have been misleading the reporter, for example to avoid unpleasant follow-up questions. (And sometime LE flat-out lies if it suits them. For
example in the Paul DeWolf case in nearby Ann Arbor, LE made a statement that nothing was missing. It later turned out that a playstation was stolen and this is how
they tracked ther perpetrators.)

I am wondering where the information that one of the polygraph's was inconclusive came from. I doubt that the person who posted it was present at the polygraph test. Did
the police give her that information? I have not heard the police say directly that JT passed a polygraph test, nor have I heard that he failed one,
nor have I heard that a polygraph test was inconclusive. If the police is giving out that kind of information to close family, then you could perhaps also get more details from the police.

I think, whether or not JT passed just one or both polygraph tests is important, even if these test cannot be used in court. I am not necessarily trying to take JT's side, but I am
trying to figure out what exactly the facts are.
 
Trojan1966 said:
black_squirrel - Julia did not live on campus. The apartment complex is across the street from EMU and is considered off-campus. At the time Julia moved out, she shared a room with her younger sister and Jennifer was living on campus at EMU in a dorm. Grandma at that time had a much larger house and she did not live alone. She had our youngest daughter and son living with her plus an "extra" bedroom. Julia had a falling out with her parents - primarily JT - and asked grandma if she could move in. Grandma said yes and that's how she ended up there. Once she enrolled in EMU, when she returned home, she would stay at grandma's house. The fact that Julia moved in to grandma's house did not help the relationship between JT and her. Grandma has always stated that JT was too "strict and controlling" concerning the children. Jennifer has not had "problems" with grandma until this recent event concerning child *advertiser censored* charge against JT was starting to unfold. Prior to this, grandma has said all along that she suspected JT in Julia's death - and this suspicion was pretty much common knowledge within the family. Now, there is virtually no contact between Kim, Jennifer and Madison with grandma Rose. Kim's sister, Carrie, does not talk to Rose even though she still lives in Rose's house. Carrie tries to support her sister as she feels the whole family is lined up against them. My youngest son, Marcus, is trying to stay neutral as I've been trying to do myself. We will let the justice system do its job and abide by whatever the results are. All in all, I feel that I'm in a very tough spot but I'll wait and see what happens. Mending all the family ties, whatever the results, will be quite a process
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God Bless You! Yes, this must be unbelievably stressful and difficult for the entire, and extended family. Perhaps staying focused on empirical data and *Justice for Julia!* (as you are doing and setting a great example) will help everyone navigate through this. You are truly an example of strength, dignity, and fortitude.
 
black_squirrel said:
I didn't mean to tell anyone what to believe and what not. I keep all possibilities open, but I think the meaning "Everyone that has been polygraphed at this point has not only
cooperated with the investigation but passed the polygraph." is clear. Surely, if you have been polygraphed, and it was inconclusive, then you still have been polygraphed.
However, the detective could have been misleading the reporter, for example to avoid unpleasant follow-up questions. (And sometime LE flat-out lies if it suits them. For
example in the Paul DeWolf case in nearby Ann Arbor, LE made a statement that nothing was missing. It later turned out that a playstation was stolen and this is how
they tracked ther perpetrators.)

I am wondering where the information that one of the polygraph's was inconclusive came from. I doubt that the person who posted it was present at the polygraph test. Did
the police give her that information? I have not heard the police say directly that JT passed a polygraph test, nor have I heard that he failed one,
nor have I heard that a polygraph test was inconclusive. If the police is giving out that kind of information to close family, then you could perhaps also get more details from the police.

I think, whether or not JT passed just one or both polygraph tests is important, even if these test cannot be used in court. I am not necessarily trying to take JT's side, but I am
trying to figure out what exactly the facts are.
Click to expand...

I don't think LE has released all the "details" of this crime as they usually don't do that. Anything that is released can have an effect on the community's information and if it goes to trial, this will definitely come into play when selecting a jury.
 
black_squirrel said:
But one of the problems I am having is that I do not really know what the "manner of Julia's attack" is. This part is still mysterious. For example, it is not clear to me
whether the crime was premeditated or more impulsive.
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An impulsive act -- or "crime of passion" -- with no visible sign of injury, would be extremely rare, imo. The circumstances don't point to it at all. In fact, just the opposite. Again, JMO.
 
I just spent some time looking at aerial maps of the route from Monroe to Ypsilanti. It appears to be 35 miles, with an approx. drive time of 40 minutes on highway 275. Then, I looked at the Michigan Department of Transportation site. There are tons of traffic cameras on 275, not sure exactly what they capture. Here in the S.F. Bay area, we have cameras everywhere that have helped with cases, including Sierra Lamar. Our buses and bus stops have cameras. Our transportation authority is very helpful.

Next, I did a little research on Ypsilanti, and it appears there are quite a few surveillance cameras, and a strong expansion program either underway, or contemplated. I'm sure LE is already all over this. Various establishments will also have outside surveillance, and hopefully something has been captured.
 
Roses, most people here do not take I-275 to get to Ypsi. Try checking the time to go from the outskirts of Monroe, ending on M-50 to US-23. I bet the drive is longer, dependent on traffic and time of day. M-50 speed limit is 50 mph I think. (Telegraph and M-50 is somewhat cental and a main route to go North)
 
From what I read, JT's two polygraphs included one that was given by his lawyer prior to the one given by LE. You all know me, I can't go back and give you a link to this.

At the time I read it, the thought that went thru my brain was his lawyer wanted to see if JT could pass LE's test. Or one might say, the lawyer was giving JT a "practice" run on taking a polygraph?
 
Trojan1966 said:
I don't think LE has released all the "details" of this crime as they usually don't do that. Anything that is released can have an effect on the community's information and if it goes to trial, this will definitely come into play when selecting a jury.
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Thank you, Trojan1966. You are navigating what I can only imagine is like a field of broken glass with your family, so I appreciate the rich understanding you share here. It feels grounding to understand better how things have broken down around Julia's murder, for some reason, not sure why. I'm sorry you lost her and have yet to know the how and why, besides how much it must hurt to keep asking.

Did he have close long time friends? Does he strike you as the confiding type, and more so with men or women? Does he have a group, like a darts league or poker buddies or tourney pals or the like who know him well?
 
rosesfromangels said:
I just spent some time looking at aerial maps of the route from Monroe to Ypsilanti. It appears to be 35 miles, with an approx. drive time of 40 minutes on highway 275. Then, I looked at the Michigan Department of Transportation site. There are tons of traffic cameras on 275, not sure exactly what they capture. Here in the S.F. Bay area, we have cameras everywhere that have helped with cases, including Sierra Lamar. Our buses and bus stops have cameras. Our transportation authority is very helpful.

Next, I did a little research on Ypsilanti, and it appears there are quite a few surveillance cameras, and a strong expansion program either underway, or contemplated. I'm sure LE is already all over this. Various establishments will also have outside surveillance, and hopefully something has been captured.
Click to expand...

The route from JT house to the what was Julia's apartment is about 45-60 minutes drive time. The route taken is basically M-50 to US-23 then into Ypsilanti. I don't think there are too many cameras along this route. I have no idea how long the videos would be "saved" but to have any from over 2 years ago might not be something readily available. Most businesses have videos but they usually record over them after a week or so. Too bad the apartment complex did not have a video surveillance system then. From what I have read, they do now.
 
FindHG said:
Did he have close long time friends? Does he strike you as the confiding type, and more so with men or women? Does he have a group, like a darts league or poker buddies or tourney pals or the like who know him well?
Click to expand...

I do not know of any long time friends. He has not played any "team" sports for as long as I've known him. He is a avid hunter, deer, elk, wild turkeys and ducks. He did get an elk permit one year and shot an impressive elk. The elk head is mounted and on his living room wall along with a deer head. I am not sure but I believe he does do some fishing once in a while. He really loves hunting the most and takes his youngest daughter with him on occassions, especially turkey hunting.
 
1&2&3 said:
From what I read, JT's two polygraphs included one that was given by his lawyer prior to the one given by LE. You all know me, I can't go back and give you a link to this.

At the time I read it, the thought that went thru my brain was his lawyer wanted to see if JT could pass LE's test. Or one might say, the lawyer was giving JT a "practice" run on taking a polygraph?
Click to expand...

I have heard the same "story" concerning the two polygraph tests but I personally have not heard that from a qualified source. It may be speculation on someone's part. I will say that my daughter has told me for quite some time that JT took two polygraphs. She has told me this over & over for the last two years. According to her, he passed both of them.
 
3 moms forge bond after losing daughters

Francis X. Donnelly, The Detroit News 12:01 a.m. EDT March 24, 2015

Monroe – When the death of a daughter split her family, Kim Turnquist found solace in two outsiders who shared a similar nightmare.

Debi Kamin and Leannda Bruck also lost daughters. One disappeared and one was shot.

"We're all moms," said Kamin of Gibraltar. "We lost daughters and we lost part of us. That's a tight bond."

In a sad coincidence within the past two years, tragedy struck three young women living 15 miles apart in rural patches of Downriver and Monroe County. No arrests have been made in the cases...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...s-missing-daughters-find-friendship/70361720/
 
Trojan1966 said:
I do not know of any long time friends. He has not played any "team" sports for as long as I've known him. He is a avid hunter, deer, elk, wild turkeys and ducks. He did get an elk permit one year and shot an impressive elk. The elk head is mounted and on his living room wall along with a deer head. I am not sure but I believe he does do some fishing once in a while. He really loves hunting the most and takes his youngest daughter with him on occassions, especially turkey hunting.
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Thank you Trojan1966. Forgive me for missing your posts earlier. Did he go off to tournaments or over-night hunting trips on his own, if you happen to know and where, if you happen to remember. Please don't feel like you have to consider this. Thank you very much for all the insight about his hobbies.
 
Trojan1966,

Do you know much about the POI's contact with Julia in the past year? Did he keep in close contact with her, and did he visit her where she lived? If so, was this with his wife or alone? How would you characterize the relationship between the POI and Julia in the past year? Had it improved? Thank you in advance if you are able to comment on these questions.
 
FindHG said:
Thank you Trojan1966. Forgive me for missing your posts earlier. Did he go off to tournaments or over-night hunting trips on his own, if you happen to know and where, if you happen to remember. Please don't feel like you have to consider this. Thank you very much for all the insight about his hobbies.
Click to expand...

Trojan1966 may have better knowledge about this, but here is my 2 cents.

Julia tweeted something on July 28 about world championship in martial arts in which her dad was participating. JT's family was there too.
I imagine that his family might not go with him if there are just minor tournaments.

JT's post
http://www.michiganbear.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397538
seems to suggest that he might stay over the night or come home late at night for hunting trips. I am totally ignorant about hunting.
People don't hunt at night, do they? Would be a very bad idea IMO.
 
black_squirrel said:
...JT's post http://www.michiganbear.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397538
seems to suggest that he might stay over the night or come home late at night for hunting trips. I am totally ignorant about hunting.

People don't hunt at night, do they? Would be a very bad idea IMO.
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DH doesn't hunt but we know folks who do, and my sister's ex was an avid hunter. During hunting season, folks head to their favorite part of the state and set up camp for several days or longer. Some hunters have stationary cabins in the woods that they use only during hunting season, while others have tents, campers, or motor homes for overnight or extended stays. I don't think these folks are actually hunting at night, but overnight camping or extended trips are definitely part of the sport.
 
rosesfromangels said:
Trojan1966,

Do you know much about the POI's contact with Julia in the past year? Did he keep in close contact with her, and did he visit her where she lived? If so, was this with his wife or alone? How would you characterize the relationship between the POI and Julia in the past year? Had it improved? Thank you in advance if you are able to comment on these questions.
Click to expand...

There was contact between the two. Julia would from time to time help him do some cleaning of apartments and such in the Ypsilanti area. She could earn some extra money doing this. So I would assume JT was at Julia's apartment without his wife. I do know that Julia's mom and dad helped her "move-in" at the start of the school year. Her mom worked within a few miles of Julia's apartment, so she would drop in from time to time. I would say that Julia's relationship with JT was pretty much a normal relationship. She did not like the fact that he was a very strict disciplinarian and most everyone knew that. I would not say their relationship was any better or worse in that last year. I know she never really mentioned anything about this when we talked on the phone.
 
FindHG said:
Thank you Trojan1966. Forgive me for missing your posts earlier. Did he go off to tournaments or over-night hunting trips on his own, if you happen to know and where, if you happen to remember. Please don't feel like you have to consider this. Thank you very much for all the insight about his hobbies.
Click to expand...

I can't really tell you too much about his hunting trips. I'm in FL and his hunting was in MI. I know that when most people go deer hunting, it usually involves over night stays, whether it is a "cabin", tents or even motels. Most people plan a few days for deer hunting as it is not normal to get a deer the first day. Another plus is that if you go with your friends, it's a "bonding experience"! As far as I know, JT hunted alone.
 
black_squirrel said:
Trojan1966 may have better knowledge about this, but here is my 2 cents.
Julia tweeted something on July 28 about world championship in martial arts in which her dad was participating. JT's family was there too.
I imagine that his family might not go with him if there are just minor tournaments.
Click to expand...


As far as I know, the only world championship he attended was in 2012 in Chicago. I'm not sure if he really competed in this. I don't remember all the details other than the family had a great time and hit lots of the Chicago tourist spots. The whole family went to make a family trip out of it.
 
Trojan1966 said:
There was contact between the two. Julia would from time to time help him do some cleaning of apartments and such in the Ypsilanti area. She could earn some extra money doing this. So I would assume JT was at Julia's apartment without his wife. I do know that Julia's mom and dad helped her "move-in" at the start of the school year. Her mom worked within a few miles of Julia's apartment, so she would drop in from time to time. I would say that Julia's relationship with JT was pretty much a normal relationship. She did not like the fact that he was a very strict disciplinarian and most everyone knew that. I would not say their relationship was any better or worse in that last year. I know she never really mentioned anything about this when we talked on the phone.
Click to expand...

Was JT still a "strict disciplinarian" when Jennifer and Julia were adults (age 18), out of high school, and attending college?
 
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