MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #3

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O.K. MiMommy, you have kept your word and provided this info, so I am going to keep mine. Until (and if) such time that LE provides any additional info on the current POI, I am moving on to explore other theories exclusively. JT needs to work with LE on his current charge, and removing himself from the POI list in his stepdaughters case. I don't see any additional benefit in giving that any more focus unless there is a development.

I think it is wonderful you are encouraging Kim & Jennifer to join us, and I know they will be treated with respect and courtesy, and that we can focus on other potential POI theories. So let me start that off now.

It seems as if there would be three natural areas of exploration; those she interacted with in Ypsilanti, those in Monroe, and we shouldn't overlook any intersection points with Chelsea Bruck, a family friend and murder victim herself. You need to consider hundreds of data points, even what appears to be the most mundane, and start examining for patterns and "connecting the dots".

FORAGER: This is where you absolutely excel. Can you make some suggestions for MiMommy to start developing a chart? I am thinking timelines, cast of characters, activities, geo-location, major milestones....basically, the works. This type of "project management heat map" can really obviate some "aha's". Again, the smallest or most mundane of activities might end up being significant, so put it all down MiMommy. Thank you Forager for any suggestions you might have on this.

LE has most likely already developed their own professional version of this, but it doesn't hurt for us amateurs to see if we can uncover a nugget or two.

So, to reiterate, and for explanations sake, everything I post here henceforth will focus on other theories beyond the current POI. Thank you to MiMommy for keeping her end of the bargain.

Thank you for rejoining us! Looking forward to seeing what new theories you are bringing here for discussion. Re-energizing in different directions couldn't come at a better time! Glad to see you back! ;-)
 
Trojan - My understanding is that JT and KT were in the bathroom showering with LE arrived. I understand the house is not large, but I think we can all agree that they would not have heard anyone while they were there.

I'm a bit confused about this. I think that we may have LE visits to the Turnquist home confused.

The first time that LE went to the Turnquist home and they didn't answer the door was fairly early in the investigation (within 2 months), with them not answering the door LE contacted grandma Rose, went to her house and talked with Rose, LE took 1 computer, it was Carrie / Roses. They did not take Roses desk top computer as explained before, that computer Rose no longer has, Kim's brother Marc has it.
In 2014 (I think it was March- April) JT asked Kim for a divorce, Kim went and stayed with her friends Melissa and Pam (that supposedly who JT is now staying with). Evidently this time period is when LE went to the Turnquist home while JT & Kim were supposedly having 'adult' activities in their bathroom (according to Kim), they WERE aware that LE were at their door, but did not answer the door.
In Dec. 2014, after Kim, JT and Jennifer met with LE in Monroe, LE went to Turnquist home. With a warrant, they took Kim's computer, neither JT nor Kim at that time let LE know that they had any other computers. I remember Kim calling us that day very upset about LE taking her computer (the one that they found the child *advertiser censored* pictures on) & she said that JT was very angry!!!! So much for cooperating.
The last computer they took was Feb. 2015, that we have been told by LE was a newer computer, NOT the laptop that was given to JT for Christmas 2012 from the Twins (sadly Only Jennifer was there to give the gift to their step dad JT, for Julia was murdered, found dead in her apt. On Dec. 11). LE as said that JT''s laptop has not been found,
 
Thank you for rejoining us! Looking forward to seeing what new theories you are bringing here for discussion. Re-energizing in different directions couldn't come at a better time! Glad to see you back! ;-)

Thank you. It's time to look at other possibilities. LE has the current POI situation in their hands for further examination and disposition, MiMommy provided the missing info needed, and now I can move on.

I'm hoping Kim and Jennifer will join us. We need additional input from them to continue to assemble and dissect our "map". I will also say that although very few will agree with me, I am still not convinced there isn't a tie to Chelsea. I think we need to carefully look at any and all of even the smallest connection points. The odds are too astronomical to discount.

The second theme I am hung up on is the theme of secrecy. Being silenced to keep a secret.
But before I go there, I'm thinking about why women are strangled in general.
Possibilities include sexual assault and murder to avoid detection, losing control in an argument and strangling the woman, sexual games that went bad, and strangling to silence.

Again, silencing is my theory.
Now back to what my old Detective buddy used to talk about....find the why, and it will lead you to the who. In the spirit of focusing on only new theories and possibilities, my best guess (and please forgive me as this is not intended to disparage Julia)....was she having an affair with a married person?
Again, my apologies as I am reticent to even suggest that, but it should be considered for the check list.

We need Jennifer on here. She can help us drive this forward.

Editing to ask: And I can't believe I haven't asked this before (but maybe someone else did) - was Julia pregnant?
 
Thank you, Trojan and 4ist, for persevering. It's a sight to behold and appreciate for me.

Thank you FindHG, for your continued support :)

It's possible K & JT did not hear the door the day police came to collect the computer however what took so long for them to finally hand it over? Did police walk away from the home that day and never call again or ask them to turn in the laptop? Maybe they didn't hear the door that particular day but why then did it take a year and a half to finally cooperate in handing over the computer? And only then because police had a search warrant? Am I understanding this correctly?

Kim and JT were very much aware that their computers might help with the investigation, they did not see fit to voluntarily turning the over.

[/B]

Yes, hopefully MiMommy will answer this question shortly, and then I will present my other theory for everyone to pressure test.

MiMommys answer to the JT's alibi was a very short and sketchy answer, off work on Sunday tells us nothing. A better question might be: Did JT talk to Julia that Sunday?

I don't believe there were any public reports as to evidence found.

I don't know if this can be answered, but does the family have a death certificate? If so, what does it say for cause of death? Strangulation due to asphyxia, or unknown, or something else?
To Spellbound: The immediate family does have a death certificate. Trojan may know the exact wording on it.

As for the first detective, if memory serves me correctly, there were at least three or four other murders in Ypsilanti area about that same time that he was involved with. I believe those others were all solved and trials have been held. I just cannot fault him for this case still being unsolved. There is so much that we do not know. I do believe it was likely just the personality of that detective to be particularly kind and somewhat open to victim families, but not likely he would share anything that would harm an investigation. Perhaps having a "tougher" detective on the case now is a good thing. Just saying.... for no particular reason.

For sure Ypsilanti police dept. With
Their crime rate, needs more help!

Personally, I don't think there is public knowledge of any evidence being found, at least none we have heard or read about. It is possible LE took items for further testing, but that does not necessarily mean it is evidence that will help solve the crime. Unless we know what type of "evidence" we are discussing, I can't logically conclude it is in possession of LE.

What could this evidence be? Blood, hair from a hairbrush, a glass for fingerprints, cigarettes butts, a computer, cell phone, clothing? It could be almost anything, or nothing.
To Spell: LE has never public ally released anything to do with DNA being found, and is probably not a good thing to discuss in this forum.

What actually consists of DNA evidence? Here is one explanation. If DNA evidence came from the apartment, it seem so retry limited as to what it was. What bodily fluids or cells were found/taken?

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/what-is-dna-evidence.html

A sufficient amount of DNA may be found in virtually any type of biological evidence. For violent crimes, such evidence typically comes from blood or other bodily fluids. Hair and skin cells left at the crime scene also may provide investigators with enough DNA for testing purposes. - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/what-is-dna-evidence.html#sthash.LtxPJ2Fh.dpuf

--
There is a chart on this page that lists some items from which DNA can be taken, and what type. Pretty simple explanation on DNA, too.
http://www.nij.gov/topics/forensics/evidence/dna/basics/pages/identifying-to-transporting.aspx

My point is that if she is telling the truth about that particular day (not that I believe her) why wasn't the computer turned in shortly after if it could possibly help with the investigation? Her reason for not answering the door that day certainly doesn't explain why she refused to cooperate over the next year and a half in providing LE with that computer.

So my biggest question is : Will KT and Jennifer swear in a statement that they have no doubt that JT was home all night on Sunday night?
And if so, why not go to LE and give them their statements so they can be documented and signed by them?

Trojan: we can only hope and pray that they decide to talk truthfully to LE. With or without an attorney. Julia is counting on them to do just that!!

I did not know that DNA evidence was found, but it does not surprise me. Mimommy mentioned before that a roommate was asked for fingerprints and DNA recently. That would be pointless if they didn't have finger prints and/or DNA evidence at the crime scene to compare it to.

I think your abundance of caution is prudent 4ist. Good call out.

OK, and thank you for this. I can understand having DNA evidence for Julia and also to compare to whoever was known to be in the apartment, and if none match they will want to find out who it does belong to. I was thinking more along the lines of having known DNA of a possible perpetrator. But now I realize that would not necessarily be the case.

Again, thanks squirrel.

Per TOS, I do believe you may be right. Without a link or tangible proof of this, we cannot be sure it is true. Shall I ask a mod if it is OK?

Again to all, Trojan and I have been told certain things that are not to be disgust, about ANY DNA is one of those that I personally not share what I do know.
 
MiMommy,

We have posted previously about a cryptic post in Julia's twitter (approx. a month before she was murdered). "Trust no one". Do either Kim or Jennifer have any ideas or theories what this was referring to? If it was something personal not relevant to this, please let us know that too. I think we are all still quite hung up on that cryptic post. At least I am. It goes back to the "secrecy" theme.
 
Thank you for rejoining us! Looking forward to seeing what new theories you are bringing here for discussion. Re-energizing in different directions couldn't come at a better time! Glad to see you back! ;-)

I agree. Very good for rosesfromangels to rejoin and for every possibility to be considered. WS is for families, and Jen and Kim could not be more so. I trust their love for Julia, ultimately, and their need for truth as I would any family member with good intention.
 
I agree. Very good for rosesfromangels to rejoin and for every possibility to be considered. WS is for families, and Jen and Kim could not be more so. I trust their love for Julia, ultimately, and their need for truth as I would any family member with good intention.

Yes. These two women need love, support, and answers! We need to dig deep on various possibilities. I'm starting with the secrecy theory, and going through my checklist.
I need more insight in to Julia's habits, routines, and likes. We'll find something in that.
 
Thank you. It's time to look at other possibilities. LE has the current POI situation in their hands for further examination and disposition, MiMommy provided the missing info needed, and now I can move on.

I'm hoping Kim and Jennifer will join us. We need additional input from them to continue to assemble and dissect our "map". I will also say that although very few will agree with me, I am still not convinced there isn't a tie to Chelsea. I think we need to carefully look at any and all of even the smallest connection points. The odds are too astronomical to discount.

The second theme I am hung up on is the theme of secrecy. Being silenced to keep a secret.
But before I go there, I'm thinking about why women are strangled in general.
Possibilities include sexual assault and murder to avoid detection, losing control in an argument and strangling the woman, sexual games that went bad, and strangling to silence.

Again, silencing is my theory.
Now back to what my old Detective buddy used to talk about....find the why, and it will lead you to the who. In the spirit of focusing on only new theories and possibilities, my best guess (and please forgive me as this is not intended to disparage Julia)....was she having an affair with a married person?
Again, my apologies as I am reticent to even suggest that, but it should be considered for the check list.

We need Jennifer on here. She can help us drive this forward.

Editing to ask: And I can't believe I haven't asked this before (but maybe someone else did) - was Julia pregnant?

As much as we could use their help out here I fear anything they would say would be shredded to pieces. JMO :(
 
MiMommy,

We have posted previously about a cryptic post in Julia's twitter (approx. a month before she was murdered). "Trust no one". Do either Kim or Jennifer have any ideas or theories what this was referring to? If it was something personal not relevant to this, please let us know that too. I think we are all still quite hung up on that cryptic post. At least I am. It goes back to the "secrecy" theme.
Perhaps it was the incident where she caught her roommates using drugs. When did that happen?
 
MiMommy,

We have posted previously about a cryptic post in Julia's twitter (approx. a month before she was murdered). "Trust no one". Do either Kim or Jennifer have any ideas or theories what this was referring to? If it was something personal not relevant to this, please let us know that too. I think we are all still quite hung up on that cryptic post. At least I am. It goes back to the "secrecy" theme.
I too am wondering if the Trust No One was somehow related to the drug use within the apartment.

Does anyone know any special school projects Julia had been working on just before her passing? I'm most interested in anything she might have been doing for her communications class.

Now, a second more sensitive question. And I apologize for even asking it as it is not a nice question, but I'm looking at everything. Was Julia know to occasionally dabble with recreational drugs? With finals looming, many students will take something to keep them up and cramming. If the answer is yes, would you speculate she might have obtained the occasional recreational drug from one of the aforementioned shady Monroe citizens?

This is wild speculation, and I mean no disrespect to the family members. But I am pressure testing our current theory for holes.

Trojan66 Response:

Trojan66 said:
As far as I know, Julia did not do drugs. She hated them and being around people who used them. This was one reason for the ill feelings between her and a room mate. Evidently she caught them doing something in their apartment which led to a "blowup" between them.

It would be helpful to know when this "blowup" occurred in proximity of Julia's death.

Was there still animosity between the roommates? Was tensions so high it made living together miserable? Did Julia consider moving out or kicking the drug using roommate out of the apartment?

Is this the same roommate that may have been the last person to see her alive, when she stopped at the apartment to get some things to stay at BF's house?
 
Continuing my train of thought...

I'm curious of the roommates' disposition after the murder. We're they fearful after Julia's death? Did they move out immediately after? Move home take time off school? Express concern about "it could have been all of us" had we been home? Remorse for not being home?
 
It would be helpful to know when this "blowup" occurred in proximity of Julia's death.

Was there still animosity between the roommates? Was tensions so high it made living together miserable? Did Julia consider moving out or kicking the drug using roommate out of the apartment?

Is this the same roommate that may have been the last person to see her alive, when she stopped at the apartment to get some things to stay at BF's house?
The reaction of this roommate to Julia's death on social media was nearly nonexistent. She posted one picture of Julia and her on FB without any text and that's it. She did not write any words about the loss of Julia. The first post on twitter after Julia's death was her saying that she was moving on, and that she was going to do what would make her happy. I don't think that this post was referring to Julia. Rather, I think she meant that she was moving on from a past relationship. Perhaps her relationship ended around the time that Julia died. Perhaps the two are connected. Could it be that the roommate felt that Julia had taken away her boyfriend. That could be another motive. Do we know whether the last person that Julia went on a date with a few days earlier, was in some way connected to the roommate?

If I understand it correctly, this roommate did not see Julia when she stopped at the apartment, because Julia's door was closed.
 
Continuing my train of thought...

I'm curious of the roommates' disposition after the murder. We're they fearful after Julia's death? Did they move out immediately after? Move home take time off school? Express concern about "it could have been all of us" had we been home? Remorse for not being home?

Good questions but I don't know the exact answer. I do know that one of the roommates did move "back home" and continued her education. I'm not sure what exactly happened to the roommate suspected of drug use. I'm pretty sure that she too moved out. I'll see if I can find out.
 
The reaction of this roommate to Julia's death on social media was nearly nonexistent. She posted one picture of Julia and her on FB without any text and that's it. She did not write any words about the loss of Julia. The first post on twitter after Julia's death was her saying that she was moving on, and that she was going to do what would make her happy. I don't think that this post was referring to Julia. Rather, I think she meant that she was moving on from a past relationship. Perhaps her relationship ended around the time that Julia died. Perhaps the two are connected. Could it be that the roommate felt that Julia had taken away her boyfriend. That could be another motive. Do we know whether the last person that Julia went on a date with a few days earlier, was in some way connected to the roommate?

If I understand it correctly, this roommate did not see Julia when she stopped at the apartment, because Julia's door was closed.

First, it is true as far as I know that the roommate that stopped by Sunday evening to pick up some things did not actually see Julia. She did hear Julia's TV as it seemed louder than normal. Second, Julia had a date Saturday night but that person has been cleared by LE. He was given a polygraph, fingerprinted and a DNA test. That person had nothing to do with either roommate.
 
First, it is true as far as I know that the roommate that stopped by Sunday evening to pick up some things did not actually see Julia. She did hear Julia's TV as it seemed louder than normal. Second, Julia had a date Saturday night but that person has been cleared by LE. He was given a polygraph, fingerprinted and a DNA test. That person had nothing to do with either roommate.
Was this a first date for Julia and this person? Was he an athlete?
From what I know it does not seem that Julia was in any type of committed relationship.
 
Good questions but I don't know the exact answer. I do know that one of the roommates did move "back home" and continued her education. I'm not sure what exactly happened to the roommate suspected of drug use. I'm pretty sure that she too moved out. I'll see if I can find out.
The other roommate currently works for a Daycare in Ypsilanti according to her FB page. According to the FB since July 2014. However, I believe I checked this before not too long ago and at that time she was working at a Daycare further west of Ypsilanti, closer to her home town. So I'm not sure where she worked when. I think she probably is not living at peninsular apartments anymore.
 
The reaction of this roommate to Julia's death on social media was nearly nonexistent. She posted one picture of Julia and her on FB without any text and that's it. She did not write any words about the loss of Julia. The first post on twitter after Julia's death was her saying that she was moving on, and that she was going to do what would make her happy. I don't think that this post was referring to Julia. Rather, I think she meant that she was moving on from a past relationship. Perhaps her relationship ended around the time that Julia died. Perhaps the two are connected. Could it be that the roommate felt that Julia had taken away her boyfriend. That could be another motive. Do we know whether the last person that Julia went on a date with a few days earlier, was in some way connected to the roommate?

If I understand it correctly, this roommate did not see Julia when she stopped at the apartment, because Julia's door was closed.
When other SM accounts of hers were open to the public, I can tell you that within days of Julia's death, she had lots of smiling 'selfies'. She definitely did not appear to be concerned about her own welfare considering her roommate was just murdered! I find this very odd. Even if I hated someone, I would never act so flippant if they were tragically murdered....I would be horrified! At one point they seemed very close, so wouldn't those moments in time tug at your heart strings? Maybe some personal reflection or regret? I have not seen any indication of this with KM. I will say that her boyfriend at the time (OD) dropped her within a few months after Julia's death.
 
Questions have been previously asked in regards to the identity of the twin's father - It has been confirmed that the individual was a few year's older than Kim, at one point lived in the family home and he recently resided out of state, and is currently deceased.

I would like to know at what point he lived in the family home? I don't remember it but then I could be wrong. Can you clarify this?
 
When other SM accounts of hers were open to the public, I can tell you that within days of Julia's death, she had lots of smiling 'selfies'. She definitely did not appear to be concerned about her own welfare considering her roommate was just murdered! I find this very odd. Even if I hated someone, I would never act so flippant if they were tragically murdered....I would be horrified! At one point they seemed very close, so wouldn't those moments in time tug at your heart strings? Maybe some personal reflection or regret? I have not seen any indication of this with KM. I will say that her boyfriend at the time (OD) dropped her within a few months after Julia's death.

I have heard the same thing. I was assured by LE that KM and her boyfriend at that time have been completely "cleared" but as you say, based on her behavior a person has to wonder.
 
When other SM accounts of hers were open to the public, I can tell you that within days of Julia's death, she had lots of smiling 'selfies'. She definitely did not appear to be concerned about her own welfare considering her roommate was just murdered! I find this very odd. Even if I hated someone, I would never act so flippant if they were tragically murdered....I would be horrified! At one point they seemed very close, so wouldn't those moments in time tug at your heart strings? Maybe some personal reflection or regret? I have not seen any indication of this with KM. I will say that her boyfriend at the time (OD) dropped her within a few months after Julia's death.
The boyfriend is a FB friend of the basketball player who was accused of choking his girlfriend (although that may not mean too much because that basketball player has 2000+ FB friends). The boyfriend is a tall athlete (football). Julia liked tall athletes, judging from social media. His reaction to Julia's death seems more normal.
 
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