ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

ClaireNC · Jul 17, 2015

windrower said:
steelman, I know you follow and comment on other cases I'm following, and you seem to keep really good track of the who/what/when/where/why information about a case. I've read only bits and pieces here, and so I'll ask you: Has it been established that Deorr was with the family at the camp site?

I know the photo at the beginning of the thread would suggest he was, but I've not read where LE has stated that they did prove Deorr was actually at the camp site before he went missing.

And yes, I agree, if he left camp to go exploring, or trying to find his parents where they were fishing, he could be so much farther away than anyone imagines.

Hi Windrower! I know you directed your question at Steelman, so I hope you don't mind me answering. I've been closely following the case since the beginning. No it has not been established that DeOrr was with the family at the camp site. We just have the parents' word on that. However, LE have interviewed all of the adults that were there and have not found anything wrong with their stories. (So they have said in a public statement.)

The photo at the beginning is misleading. I don't think it was taken at the campground.

The parent's were not fishing when he disappeared. They had gone off "exploring". I do agree with you and steelman that he could have gone much further away than they imagine.

byo · Jul 17, 2015

Aeronomy said:
Pertaining to the People article I linked above, I find it odd that DeOrr's blanket was in the truck. I recall his father stating DeOrr was about to take a nap just before they went exploring.

They were coming back from the store, and Deorr fell asleep? When they get to the campsite, the baby's still sleeping, they ask Grandpa to keep an eye on him. Mom and Dad go off on their walk?

LadyL · Jul 17, 2015

I watched this yesterday and was wondering who is off camera advising them? Is it a lawyer or a producer? Seems like it's a lawyer based on the interruptions while they're answering.

SleuthMom said:
Okay God forgive me...I just finished watching this:

[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]

<modsnip>

LadyL · Jul 17, 2015

maybe they didn't ask at all - maybe they just said "hey, we're going down there for a bit" and assumed he would babysit

ClaireNC said:
Hi Steelman. Not being nit-picky but that statement is hearsay. That is Jessica's mother talking to a reporter. She was not there at the campsite when DeOrr went missing. We don't really know if the grandfather was aware that he was supposed to be watching DeOrr.

My thought on it is that Mom and/or Dad said something like "hey Grandpa, we are going for a walk, will you keep an eye on DeOrr?" and Grandpa didn't hear what they said, or he heard but it didn't really register. Both my husband and my father are like that, they might nod when you speak to them, but what you say doesn't really sink in.

When my children were young and I was doing something important like leaving my father in charge of a 2 year old, I would tap him on the shoulder and look directly in his face and say. "I'm leaving now, please watch the baby." And make sure he says "yes, got it, I'm watching the baby." After that I would feel confident that the child is safe in his care.

Aeronomy · Jul 17, 2015

byo said:
They were coming back from the store, and Deorr fell asleep? When they get to the campsite, the baby's still sleeping, they ask Grandpa to keep an eye on him. Mom and Dad go off on their walk?

They stated he was playing with the g-grandpa and getting ready for a nap.

byo · Jul 17, 2015

renarde said:
What is that structure just up / down the 172 road from the campground? It looks like there is an 18-wheeler or truck with a long trailer parked near it.

I think it's just one of the campsites. Here's a link to a Bing Map. You can get a different angle.

ClaireNC · Jul 17, 2015

LadyL said:
maybe they didn't ask at all - maybe they just said "hey, we're going down there for a bit" and assumed he would babysit

True, I was being polite, 'cause that is how I would have done it. Either way, my point was that whatever they said the grandfather might not have heard them. Not because he is hard of hearing, but the thing I call "selective hearing." Some people, and it seems to be mostly men I know, are often wrapped up in their own thoughts and they don't hear what you say unless you make a true effort to get their attention.

My husband is one of those people. If I say, "honey, l'm leaving now and going to the store" he might nod his head or mumble something but then 5 or 10 minutes later look up and realize that I'm gone.

Hoosgirl · Jul 17, 2015

Locals, would it be unusual there for kids to be in coats? My kid would have thrown that off in a second if he was hiking around, but I'm in hot and humid NC. It would be good to know what color shirt he had on, if the camo jacket has been discarded in the woods and not found because it blends in. I don't think I've seen a shirt description anywhere.

Cardinal47 · Jul 17, 2015

I heard on NG last evening they were bringing in Sonar to search the reservoir this weekend. Wouldn't that have done that earlier?

JLSChook · Jul 17, 2015

sillybilly said:
This is the second reminder in less than 30 minutes.

This child's parents are victims. LE has indicated they are not suspect. Insinuations or speculation about parental involvement in Deorr's disappearance is off-limits unless/until LE or MSM release information to the contrary.

:bump:
Just a gentle reminder.

Cardinal47 · Jul 17, 2015

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

Was tot abducted during family camping trip?
Was tot abducted during family camping trip?

Idaho authorities are now using sonar as well as divers to search a remote reservoir for missing 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr. The toddler disappeared last Friday while camping with his family near the Stone Reservoir in Leadore.

Police divers have been methodically searching every square inch of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that very well could be the smell the dogs picked up on.

Its pretty disappointing. Someone was depositing human cremains up there while were searching the area. It contaminates the reservoir and the entire area, says Bowerman.

Nevertheless, we have sonar there today and divers still at the reservoir. We are going to side scan and sonar the whole lake. We have people up there on horseback too searching as we speak.

DeOrrs grandfather says hes heartbroken over his missing grandson.

They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy. When he wants to take a nap he'll come up to me and say 'nap papa, nap papa,' so we'd lay down and take a nap. Im so attached to him. I don't know what I'd do if we lost him. I just can't imagine going day to day without that little boy running around. Im so sad. Im just at a loss here.

Elainera · Jul 17, 2015

jmcgladr said:
And this may be a more accurate and current measurement of the water temp at the reservoir. From looking at the campsite online, it looks like the reservoir is called Stone Reservoir and this fishing site gives the current estimated water temperature at Stone Reservoir as 37 degrees Fahrenheit. http://www.fishingnotes.com/water-temperature/id/Stone-Reservoir

So ... if the water is below 40 degrees, according to the body float table posted earlier it will not surface at all until the water warms up above 40.

Elainera · Jul 17, 2015

steelman said:
I've followed this case quietly since it first broke, I've pretty much just been lurking and waiting for an end result. So far there isn't one. The only thing I can add is in regards to the grandfather and his version of events.

He said something along the lines of not paying attention for a few seconds and when he turned around, the boy was gone. Now....one thing I do know is that older folks like their naps. I can't help but wonder if grandpa was stretched out in his favorite chaise lounger and actually drifted off to sleep for awhile. When he woke up, granted it may have only seemed like a couple of seconds, but it may have actually been a few minutes up to a dozen or so.

5 to 10 minutes is plenty of time for a little kid to get a pretty good distance away, especially if he was running after something or towards something in the distance. If grandpa dozed off, the typical calling and warnings that grown-ups do would not have been happening. Normally, if he had gotten too far away, someone would have called him to come back......but not this time. He just got further and further away until he got hidden in the brush and got turned around himself. Realizing he was lost, fear and panic would have set in, and he may have started running even faster..........in the wrong direction. There is absolutely no telling which direction he may have headed off in, since everything he saw was unfamiliar to him. This same type thing happens to inexperienced campers and hikers all the time, and they are adults.

I think he is still out there in that forest somewhere. They need to focus on any areas that they DON'T think he would have gone, like up steep cliffs or down rocky crevices. The search radius should be expanded to cover no less than 4 to 5 miles. He could have gotten a mile away in the first 20 minutes of this thing, especially if panicked.

According to this article, children under the age of three don't realize they are lost, and don't panic. Many are found asleep (if they're found in time).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-s...old_b_198883.html?ir=India&adsSiteOverride=in

But I agree with you that they should expand the search parameters.

ClaireNC · Jul 17, 2015

Elainera said:
So ... if the water is below 40 degrees, according to the body float table posted earlier it will not surface at all until the water warms up above 40.

That is not the same Stone Reservoir. There are two in Idaho. The one listed on the fishingnotes website is in Oneida country, down near the border with Utah. The one DeOrr went missing from is about 250 miles north, in Lemhi country.

Cardinal47 · Jul 17, 2015

I was wondering if anybody heard how many other families, folks were camping in the same general area.

It seems if somebody abducted the little guy they would have to have been seen out in the open with no folks around.

I read there was only one road in and out. I know the dad has been on a four wheeler searching but if somebody came in and snatched Deorr there would be the sound of a vehicle.

Just things I wonder about.

Seems like this camping spot was in the middle of nowhere with nobody around so I keep thinking he wandered off when he didn't see mom and dad.

Jules71 · Jul 17, 2015

honeybun1807 said:
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

Was tot abducted during family camping trip?
Was tot abducted during family camping trip?

Idaho authorities are now using sonar as well as divers to search a remote reservoir for missing 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr. The toddler disappeared last Friday while camping with his family near the Stone Reservoir in Leadore.

Police divers have been methodically searching every square inch of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that very well could be the smell the dogs picked up on.

Its pretty disappointing. Someone was depositing human cremains up there while were searching the area. It contaminates the reservoir and the entire area, says Bowerman.

Nevertheless, we have sonar there today and divers still at the reservoir. We are going to side scan and sonar the whole lake. We have people up there on horseback too searching as we speak.

DeOrrs grandfather says hes heartbroken over his missing grandson.

They've lived with me in my house for the past year and a half and he's my buddy. When he wants to take a nap he'll come up to me and say 'nap papa, nap papa,' so we'd lay down and take a nap. Im so attached to him. I don't know what I'd do if we lost him. I just can't imagine going day to day without that little boy running around. Im so sad. Im just at a loss here.

Who would deposit human cremains WHILE they are searching?? CRAZY.

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wendybtn · Jul 17, 2015

teeandcee said:
Ah ha, finally! If it was crowded like this it puts a damper on my predator theory, especially a cougar. A bear not so much. Interesting about all the cabins. I sure hope he's in one too. That would be a miracle.

If he is not being taken care of by some adult, I do not think he could possibly be alive, unless a miracle occurs.

renarde · Jul 17, 2015

Very pretty there. I wonder how they found out about this campsite. Had they been there before?

Does Timber Creek flow into or out of Stone Reservoir?

byo said:
I think it's just one of the campsites. Here's a link to a Bing Map. You can get a different angle.

Jules71 · Jul 17, 2015

renarde said:
Very pretty there. I wonder how they found out about this campsite. Had they been there before?

Does Timber Creek flow into or out of Stone Reservoir?

Both. I think because dad said they we're camped directly 'below' the reservoir so therefore the flow would go from creek to reservoir to creek again (which ran by their campsite). So if he went in the creek at their campsite he would be carried the opposite way --not toward the reservoir.

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Jules71 · Jul 17, 2015

Someone also asked about the road up the mtn that dad didn't know about. That doesn't lead to the reservoir, it goes up the mtn and from there you can see the reservoir and the entire campground (looking down).

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ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

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