Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

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I think people would notice a Telstra van.

I thought it was a Panel Van anyway according to the various articles. Panel vans weren't similar to Vans tradies used, Panel Vans were what Surfies used and they looked distinctly different.

What if Panel Van actually refers to a worker van like this http://humster3d.com/360-view/?id=14333
Certainly Main Roads use such vehicles today
Rather than a Sand Man style Panel Van that we are interpreting to mean
A ute with a hard top roof could also be mistaken for its similarity to a sand man style panel van late at night by someone with little interest in cars
 
Quoted by Elastic; Does anyone remember the Peter Weygers search by the Police, they literally initiated the search based on a clairvoyant. That is not a joke, how that is even possible is anyone's guess, but it looks like those two are definitely cleared (Weygers and Ross). End Quote.

Nup, PW was nominated by a woman I know & met several times. She won`t be bothered to blog on here. Def not Clairvoyant unless she said she was. Now Sutton, Re John of UK. Strip fibers obtained etc. My take is John was tipped off & shouldn`t have been. I am not going to say who I recon that person was... CG was about 25 m from the end of the loop road off Pippi Rd. & John was close but not that close. A 2wd can drive onto the loop & not get scratched. Asbestos removalists know of the Loop cause they dump a fair bit in there. Di of Qld will know cause I met her & we all went there, along with her psychic from Brissie. Di of Qld still posts rubbish in here. To be expected I guess :/ The plod have dna but no one to link it to. Unless of course 2 were present with this carry on. And the way wagons seem to be involved, nothing surprises me.
 
Morey does not have the nous to be the CSK. Several from Highgate, Yes! Plus most poi`s have been eliminated due to Karrakatta DNA link. Not going far for this case now. My take is SS is totally separate from JR,CG & the Karrakatta carry ons. My other take is all other attempts is linked to Karrakatta. The skirt ripping & head banging in the lane behind HJ`s is definitely csk material, excuse the pun using the word material. Just is prime blitz greeting likely for the csk to do. As said , not going far.
 
Morey does not have the nous to be the CSK. Several from Highgate, Yes! Plus most poi`s have been eliminated due to Karrakatta DNA link. Not going far for this case now. My take is SS is totally separate from JR,CG & the Karrakatta carry ons. My other take is all other attempts is linked to Karrakatta. The skirt ripping & head banging in the lane behind HJ`s is definitely csk material, excuse the pun using the word material. Just is prime blitz greeting likely for the csk to do. As said , not going far.

Whether he is the Claremont Killer or not I want to know if he is the Highgate POI. Everything seems to suggest he is. There hasnt been any official announcement ruling Morey out so maybe he is the POI.
 
elastic said:
When they say named this year they mean identified 'extra persons of interest' or did they publicly name these extra two individuals?
.
Yes. It was PW and SR.
 
Having looked at some velour seats in models from the period,
how did a transfer of fibers occur? - the strands are very short and fine, and given that it was a near new car in 1996, surely the seats were not in such a state that bits of the velour were separating. Did the boot carpet have anything special in it? the floor carpet looks more likely to transfer, along with the dash mat.
Being laid in the back of a station wagon is my guess.
 
While I am not sold on the Telstra connection, Telstra fleets did include VS Commodore Series 1 wagons. There was a recall in December 1995 to fix a faulty part:
http://australiancar.reviews/reviews.php#!content=recalls&make=Holden&model=Commodore&gen=332
In December 1995, a recall was issued for Holden VS Commodore wagons that were originally sold to Telstra fleets, fitted with Rhino roof rack ladders and in the product serial number range L818835 to L857194. For these vehicles, the Rhino roof rack was supplied with a standard nut on the ladder restraining strap instead of a Nyloc nut. If the nut came loose and the bolt fell out, the ladder could become unrestrained (PRA 1995/2648).
I drove a fleet vehicle at one stage, and my log books needed to be pretty accurate. Car was insured for work purposes. A tiny little bingle at night would have left me in all sorts of strife. I dont know how fussy Telstra were with their fleet cars, but if they were anything like the dept that I worked for I wouldn't have risked driving around at night.
 
While I am not sold on the Telstra connection, Telstra fleets did include VS Commodore Series 1 wagons. There was a recall in December 1995 to fix a faulty part:
http://australiancar.reviews/reviews.php#!content=recalls&make=Holden&model=Commodore&gen=332
In December 1995, a recall was issued for Holden VS Commodore wagons that were originally sold to Telstra fleets, fitted with Rhino roof rack ladders and in the product serial number range L818835 to L857194. For these vehicles, the Rhino roof rack was supplied with a standard nut on the ladder restraining strap instead of a Nyloc nut. If the nut came loose and the bolt fell out, the ladder could become unrestrained (PRA 1995/2648).
I drove a fleet vehicle at one stage, and my log books needed to be pretty accurate. Car was insured for work purposes. A tiny little bingle at night would have left me in all sorts of strife. I dont know how fussy Telstra were with their fleet cars, but if they were anything like the dept that I worked for I wouldn't have risked driving around at night.

Does anyone know how this socalled Telstra connection was hatched ? Could it have been due to the false concept that the binding used on the 1995 Rowe Park / Karrakatta cemetery victim was telephone flex ? Because we now know that was an incorrect assumption.
 
I re-read Bret Christian's Nov 2015 article that detailed the terrible (attempted) 1989 rape of the girl that described being escorted (by her friends) in an inebriated state to the carpark opposite the Cottesloe Hotel and that she had been placed in one of her friends vehicles, but had woken up in another vehicle with a person not known to her fondling her. Subsequently driven to Lakeside drive-in at Swanbourne were an attempted rape occurred -- thankfully she escaped but was stalked by the offender who had thrown her into the rear of his panel van; and the offender already had the tailgate opened. Note: could this girl's drink have been spiked ?

When I read about the tailegate that prompted me to do a bit of research on panel vans to see which models came with a tailgate.

It seems the Holden Sandman and other Holden panel vans came with a tailgate, whereas Ford panel vans came with rear 'french doors' at the rear. These are dual doors that open outwards from the centre; whereas the Holden rear access to panel vans was via a tailgate that lowered down which became a very handy seat and allowed for an extended lay-down area, and an upward swinging window.

I read with interest, that some models of Holden Sandman were supplied withwhat has been described (in the below Wiki article) as a 'velvet mattress'; but I consider this should be described as 'velour'.

Could the 1995 Rowe Park rapist have owned a Holden Sandman panelvan and gotten mentally attached to 'velour' hence a later purchase was the Holden Commodore VS Series 1 Berlina with velour upholstery trim. BTW the use of the word 'trim' in Bret's December 2015 article is interesting, because upholstery 'trim' is not a phrase used to describe the total seat upholstery; it is in fact, the 'side trim' upholstery, with the bum-on-seat area described differently which is exactly how the upholstery was in the Berlina photos I posted the other day.

I have read nothing that states the Rowe Park / Karrakatta victim actually identified the panel van, other than the colour of vehicle, but there is lots of information out there that details she was placed in to the rear of the van, therefore it may have been possible to identify the make of vehicle by what she could recall about the rear access to the vehicle. ie over a tailgate.

I also stumbled across an article that reminded me about something I had totally forgotten about; and that is Holden used to have a manufacturing plant in Mosman Park -- it closed in 1972. I wonder if they assembled panel vans at any stage ? I am not indicating the perp may have worked there, but a family member perhaps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel_van_(Australia)
 
The news paper article specifically says that the car is a VS Commodore Series 1 White (Possibly stationwagon) it mentions that the fabric was 'specific' to the 'white' colour models. This does not mean it was a Berlina, what it actually means is that there is some way to determine that the upholstery was specific to the colour 'white' in the VS Commodore Series 1 White (Possibly Stationwagon) Vehicle. If that same fabric that you are talking about in the Berlina comes in any other colour of the 'Berlina' model then your theory has no basis as you are not interpreting the wording correctly in the various newspaper/s.

If they had said it was a certain type of fabric for a certain type of model I am sure they could have determined the Berlina model from the fibres they had. It seems more probable the fibres are linked to the 'white' VS Commodore Series 1 (Possibly Stationwagon) Vehicles rather than a particular model.

I don't think I have ever known of Holden to issues particular one-off fabric upholstery in a vehicle that is of one particular colour; unless of course it was a special one-off order.

Read the rest of the article you have referred to; you will find extra information written by Bret. I've attached for your convenience.

The bum-on-seat area did not have velour upholstery in the Berlina, therefore this matches what Bret has detailed about the quantity of fibres etc. Perhaps the forensic lift tapes included samples from hair, under finger nails etc. I could imagine that a terrible struggle would have taken place, hence disturbance of velour fibres. Velour often sheds fibre.
 

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Does anyone know how this socalled Telstra connection was hatched ? Could it have been due to the false concept that the binding used on the 1995 Rowe Park / Karrakatta cemetery victim was telephone flex ? Because we now know that was an incorrect assumption.

I hatched it and I was only spit-balling ideas.

It's a loose theory at best.

Was the Karrakatta rope clothes-line or phone cable? I recall there has been some confusion over this.
 
I hatched it and I was only spit-balling ideas.

It's a loose theory at best.

Was the Karrakatta rope clothes-line or phone cable? I recall there has been some confusion over this.

Postnewspaper article 22 Dec 2015, same one referred to by me re the vehicle upholstery (above) today. Article details Rowe Park / Karrakatta victim tied up with clothes line, NOT telephone cable as previously considered. Attached is screen shot of article
 

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I don't think I have ever known of Holden to issues particular one-off fabric upholstery in a vehicle that is of one particular colour; unless of course it was a special one-off order.

Read the rest of the article you have referred to; you will find extra information written by Bret. I've attached for your convenience.

The bum-on-seat area did not have velour upholstery in the Berlina, therefore this matches what Bret has detailed about the quantity of fibres etc. Perhaps the forensic lift tapes included samples from hair, under finger nails etc. I could imagine that a terrible struggle would have taken place, hence disturbance of velour fibres. Velour often sheds fibre.

Papertrail, are you Paul Ferguson? Your tunnel vision and obsession with velour fabric defies logic and has potential to derail the thread.

It may have been a Berlina but there is nothing in that article to suggest velour. You're using the old 2+2=8
 
I re-read Bret Christian's Nov 2015 article that detailed the terrible (attempted) 1989 rape of the girl that described being escorted (by her friends) in an inebriated state to the carpark opposite the Cottesloe Hotel and that she had been placed in one of her friends vehicles, but had woken up in another vehicle with a person not known to her fondling her. Subsequently driven to Lakeside drive-in at Swanbourne were an attempted rape occurred -- thankfully she escaped but was stalked by the offender who had thrown her into the rear of his panel van; and the offender already had the tailgate opened. Note: could this girl's drink have been spiked ?

When I read about the tailegate that prompted me to do a bit of research on panel vans to see which models came with a tailgate.

It seems the Holden Sandman and other Holden panel vans came with a tailgate, whereas Ford panel vans came with rear 'french doors' at the rear. These are dual doors that open outwards from the centre; whereas the Holden rear access to panel vans was via a tailgate that lowered down which became a very handy seat and allowed for an extended lay-down area, and an upward swinging window.

I read with interest, that some models of Holden Sandman were supplied withwhat has been described (in the below Wiki article) as a 'velvet mattress'; but I consider this should be described as 'velour'.

Could the 1995 Rowe Park rapist have owned a Holden Sandman panelvan and gotten mentally attached to 'velour' hence a later purchase was the Holden Commodore VS Series 1 Berlina with velour upholstery trim. BTW the use of the word 'trim' in Bret's December 2015 article is interesting, because upholstery 'trim' is not a phrase used to describe the total seat upholstery; it is in fact, the 'side trim' upholstery, with the bum-on-seat area described differently which is exactly how the upholstery was in the Berlina photos I posted the other day.

I have read nothing that states the Rowe Park / Karrakatta victim actually identified the panel van, other than the colour of vehicle, but there is lots of information out there that details she was placed in to the rear of the van, therefore it may have been possible to identify the make of vehicle by what she could recall about the rear access to the vehicle. ie over a tailgate.

I also stumbled across an article that reminded me about something I had totally forgotten about; and that is Holden used to have a manufacturing plant in Mosman Park -- it closed in 1972. I wonder if they assembled panel vans at any stage ? I am not indicating the perp may have worked there, but a family member perhaps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel_van_(Australia)

CORRECTION:

I've had a brain meltdown; to damned hot and smokey !

The 1989 attempted rape the girl, the perp was driving a station wagon with tailgate not panel van !

If this is the same perp as the 1995 Rowe Park rape and the CG vehicle and the JR vehicle (if both were Holden Commodore VS station wagons), then he prefers vehicles with tailgates. Why ?
 
What is the timeline here?

From the Post, Two new clues to serial killer, Dec 12, 2015:

In addition, fibers found on Jane Rimmer's naked body in 1996 that were "lost" and then rediscovered in 2011 were found to match the upholstery of a Holden VS Commodore, which was near-new at the time she was abducted...

...Fifty fibers lifted with adhesive tape from Jane Rimmer's body lay in a file until 2004 when [the Schramm Review] discovered that the fibers had never been tested against other crimes or vehicles...Detective Schramm described the discovery as exciting...

...Two years later [from 2008/2009], the untested fibers were re-discovered when the Chemistry Centre moved buildings.

If this is a true version of events, then MACRO ignored the fibers from 1996-2004. The Schramm Review came in, and in 2004, made the "exciting discovery". Then, before the fibers can be tested, MACRO misplaces the evidence for seven years. The fibers are finally tested in 2011 and conclusively narrow down the type of vehicle used to dispose of Jane's body. That info is released in 2015.

Can other posters re-read the article and tell me if I'm misunderstanding the timeline? I must be.

http://postnewspapers.com.au/editions/20151205/pdf/paper.pdf

And how does John's comment made in 2007, fit in?

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...an/comments/uk_link_in_wa_serial_murders/P75/

this was posted on gary hughes blog in 2007


john
Thu 22 Mar 07 (12:35am)
...the hit [match] found on ahdesive tape at rimmer site by international review found but missed by macro is not the big dna match mentioned by malcolm boots[uk forensic scentist at the review]...

pretty hard to read. but this guy has knowledge of the fibers being found on JR back then.
 
Papertrail, are you Paul Ferguson? Your tunnel vision and obsession with velour fabric defies logic and has potential to derail the thread.

It may have been a Berlina but there is nothing in that article to suggest velour. You're using the old 2+2=8

hahaha

The specs article stated that the Berlina had specific VELOUR upholstery relative to that model only; Bret's article stated that the fibres found on forensic lift tapes were relative to a particular model of Holden VS series 1 Commodore, and the Berlina is one of that particular model branded with the name Berlina.

You've admitted to being the person who started up the Testra discussion, and from what I've read that started many many years ago so how many threads have you derailed with your theories.

End of story
 
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