2016.02.03 Batch 4 Audio/Video Files - Sievers Discovery Documents

I have witnessed first hand how powerful denial and delusion can be as a defense mechanism.

My wise and wonderful therapist always told me it's not my place to shake someone else's tree but there was never a murder involved. The brain protects itself the best way it knows how and I understand that.

I hope you are right and AW chooses to do the right thing. I'm not sure Teresa would forgive her, her transgressions, at this point in time- nor do I think she should. That is some real evolved behavior and as evolved as I like to think I am I don't think I could.

You are a better person than I Creepingskills, of that I am certain!
 
I don't know the difficulty in bringing somebody in for a trial ..especially against their will ...from another state as this case will have. I do recall from other trials it is difficult to subpoena and have people from another state to travel. Does anyone here have any insight to such from other cases?

I was reading up on the Jodi arias case/Juan's book under another thread http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300579 and they said that discovery to the defense and publicly only has to be 30 days prior to the trial.

AZL question perhaps ? Is this true that the really damning evidence could be held back by prosecution /come out.. just 30 days prior to the trial?

No, that's not right. I just popped over to the Arias thread to respond to that post--thanks.

Usually, you can't force someone to travel to another state to testify, but the other state's courts will cooperate and order them to appear at a certain place closer to home to be sworn and give phone/video testimony.
 
OK guys I have been transcribing AL's first interview this morning, just double checking, I don't see it anywhere. It hasn't been transcribed already has it?

(This takes forever! Hats off to those who have gone before me and will go after. Plus, I just got a call that my health insurance has been taking my premium checks and applying them to my vision insurance. I have vision insurance until 2022 but they cancelled my health insurance. This is all the same company. I'm forcefully keying in my words here so I don't punch someone)

I will also commit to doing AL's 2nd interview as long as someone can double check for me and make sure I'm not missing it somewhere.
 
Did AW say to her mother or law enforcement that she originally believed one thing but was mistaken? No. She chose to lie and let her mother believe she "heard wrong" and the confidential informant "heard wrong." That is choosing to lie. She didn't say "this is what I originally thought but after talking to Wayne I remembered that I was wrong." She choose to lie. Even if she believes that CWW is innocent, she chose to lie. That is a crime. Loss of children doesn't exempt you from responsibility for criminality. It might mitigate a sentence - but it doesn't allow you not to be held accountable. I choose to give the breaks and the chances to all of the innocent children (AW's included). IMO.

I agree, AmazonRain. Thank you for posting this. Even if AW is/was in a state of denial - denying CWW's direct involvement in the case- it is the same as lying. She may not want it to be true, but she forgets the legal consequences in connection with omitting the truth or lying. Living in denial is living a lie.

Just to clarify, Florida has the lowest bar for the death penalty. No unanimous juror vote needed here:

http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2016/florida-executions/jury-votes/

CWW will not get away with it. JRR will not get away with it. MS will not get away with it.

Some folks including AW need to wake up and smell the coffee - now.

-Nin
 
Below is my attempt at transcription of the LE interview of BL ( the dietician in Teresa's office.) in the fourth document dump. Please excuse any errors

Today's date is Thursday July 2 2015 the time is 11:58 hours. Currently present is Detective McHenry with the Lee County Sheriffs office conducting a sworn statement with B*rb*ra L*win. She's a white female with a birth date (redacted personal information)

LE Interview currently is taking place at the work office which is 10201 Arcos Avenue Suite 201 in Estero Florida. It's going to be referencing Lee County case 15268513. B*rb*ra do you recognize me to be a law enforcement officer with the State of Florida about to take sworn testimony from you?

BL Alright

LE Do you recognize me to be a law enforcement officer

BL Yes

LE Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God

BL I do

LE OK B*rb*ra I'm here to get some information from you and basically how you knew Teresa Sievers. How long have you known Teresa?

BL About 2 years

LE And how did you first meet her?

BL I first met her as her patient and came in. And um

LE And since then have you gotten to know her better obviously as a person?

BL Yes, I guess it was about a year ago she asked me if I would be interested working in her office as a dietician and I ended up doing that

LE So you also work out of the office here, is that correct?

BL I do. It's not a lot or often, but I will come in and see patients from time to time

LE Were you a close personal friend of Teresa's?

BL I wouldn't say I was a close personal friend, but I really really cared a great deal for her and we would get together. There were two conferences that we got together for. There were dinners and talks, in the last six months I would say.

LE When was the last time you saw her, Teresa?

BL It would be at the Simogen (sp?) conference which was last week, I wanna guess that it was, I think it was last Monday I'm guessing.

LE Do you remember the date off the top of your head?

BL Lenka was there also, so I'm going to say it was the 22nd of June but I'm not positive about that

LE Have you ever been over to Teresa's residence before?

BL No

LE Have you ever met any of her family members?

BL Yes, I've met her children at a talk she was giving and her husband was there as well. And then I've met her husband on different occasions setting me and my computer up in the office, then when I came in to see a client.

LE Did you also work with the same clientele that she worked with primarily?

BL They were all her, well not all. Occasionally I would bring my own patients in but I, they were primarily her patients.

LE Was there, did you, were you also involved with her volunteer activities?

BL I was, Wings of Shelter, the human trafficking that the girls.... I taught a nutrition class for them

LE How would you generally communicate with Tresa? Would she call you, text you, if she wanted to talk with you or meet up with you how would she generally contact you?

BL Text, she texted me probably most often. Would call, or email on other occasions but usually texting if she was in the middle, between patients, whether it's personal, you know, whether it's about clients or whether it was about my care.

LE Did you know any of her extended family?

BL No, I do not

LE At any point in time did she have any, either through her volunteer or through any clientele that she was seeing , did she have any problems with any clients or any people that she mentioned to you?

BL I mean I know what she does is difficult, she works with a lot of really difficult patients

LE Anyone that stands out?

BL No

LE Any kind of problems, any kind of threats made to you or to her that she may have expressed?

BL No

LE And with the relationship with her husband, how would you characterize that?

BL I didn't know them well enough and I didn't see them together often enough to really be able to tell

LE Do you know how long they had been in a relationship for?

BL No. No, but I know they have children 8 and 10 so

LE Did either one of them ever express to they were having any kind of problems in their relationship?

BL No, I was not that....I wasn't.. I didn't know them well enough for that

LE Did she express at any point in time that either one of them possibly were seeing anyone else or did they have anyone that would frequent her often that wasn't her husband that you know about?

BL Not to my knowledge

LE Or him?

BL See, I didn't work here often enough. And no, I loved this woman, I have to tell you. I mean I just thought she was amazing. But I didn't, wasn't, I was wanting to see more patients and be more connected to the office, but um yeah , just in, you know, it was more sporadic. And um but then I, you know, I also would go to seminars with her and, just, you know, she sent me I, I have the the emails, cards, that she's thinking of me and...

LE You guys maintain a very business related um relationship correspondence between the two of you, or friendship through work

BL Yeah, I mean I, when I went in and saw her as a patient she would have her own usual, you know, very spitfire, very energetic way of dealing with, you know, me as a patient. But in terms of when I talked with her, she talked to me, you know, a patient I was going to see, just like I would with any physician, you know, and tell me what was going on and how she wants to proceed. It was all pretty normal stuff.

LE Did she ever confide in you with any information she didn't want you to tell anyone? She didn't want you to tell her husband, she didn't want to tell her staff? Anything like that? Anyone she worked with?

BL No

LE B*rb*ra, at any point in time did she say she was having any problems financially, have any problems with any particular person

BL No

LE Since you've known her, has she ever expressed having anyone via communication, coming into the office, anyone bothering her, that she was having problems with, or she would say oh I can't deal with this person, or...

BL No. I know that she's closer to Lenka than she had been with me so I'm sure that you'll get more of that from her. But unfortunately we just weren't that close, there just wasn't enough time.

LE B*rb*ra, is there anything, is there any person that you can think of that you know that she would confide in if she was having problems with anyone?

BL Lenka

LE Lenka, okay. And is there any person that you know of or can think of that would wish to harm her or her family ?

BL No, my only concern was my feelings that I mentioned to you when her dealings with ...

LE That was the Wings of Shelter?

BL Yes

LE Is there anyone in particular there that you can think of?

BL No, I don't think it is anyone affiliated with them, I don't think it's anyone part of that, I think, but she was pulling people, pulling girls out of sex trafficking.

LE Right

BL So I don't know, it was something that, for some reason came to me when I was working with a healer and I don't know, I can't explain it

LE Um, was there, were you saying it's something you feel comfortable talking about?

BL I really don't have anything else to express except than I saw, I visualized some type of scene, and I don't know if it was a living room and I'm not sure, you know sometimes when you start thinking too hard about things. I don't, I don't have enough. And I don't see anything that I can, um, bring up that would help you

LE People, or events or anything that were specific to what happened?

BL I sort of thought I saw a stick or a pole. I, I saw her legs kinda sprawled out, um, it looked like she was laying... um

LE What was she wearing?

BL I didn't see anything. I couldn't see that, and I really am doing my best not to see it.

LE Um, I understand

BL But it was just a very, um, it was very realistic.

LE Any people there?

BL I didn't see any people

LE Did you hear anything? Did it sound like anything, did it sound like an argument? Anything like that?

BL It was just, um, like a snapshot of her lying there

LE This was a vision or a dream or what was this?

BL It was um, just like a vision when I was lying on this table, and I know this and it sounds crazy. And we always question things like this but it was just.. I was dealing with this healer, she.... and I'm of sound mind and body I just need to have surgery, but,um,

LE I understand

BL Um, and I just all of a sudden thought there, um, might be some connection with the sex trafficing with the, what she was doing with the girls.

LE Did she appear injured at all in the vision?

BL She was lying, she was lying, she was dead

LE She was dead. Um, anything that you could see, any kind of injury that you saw or felt or that she expressed to you?

BL All I could tell, all I could see was really like one bare leg. I couldn't really see, I couldn't really tell. And then

LE Did you know where she was particularly injured?

BL No, no. I didn't see blood, I couldn't see anything like that. Um, and then when I started thinking about it more.. again, I really don't know if that was more me. You know, you question things. But I thought I saw some pole or stick, and I thought I saw a fireplace, and then I thought I saw, I couldn't tell if it was a couch or a bed, and I thought it was blue. But again these are more, and when I started, I don't know. I, you know it, I, I, I can't..... You know, and my background is science and biochemistry so for me then to say these things sounds crazy but um, that's all. That's all that I felt and saw,and it was just so horrifying, that I, I, I you know. And then what ended up happening was the more I stayed with this healer, and even the next, I went back the next day, which was yesterday, I kept seeing... I kept seeing things. And just it was a very, just very...

LE Any people in particular

BL No, just very violent. It was kind of.. Just a very violent scene and I couldn't really, I just kept telling to not think about it, and I

LE Could I ask, what made it violent? I mean, what in particular made it violent 'cause you said it was so violent

BL I don't know, I don't know, it was just

LE Was it just a vibe you got from it or?

BL Yeah, yeah, and I know that Teresa was just so very spirited that she would have fought as much as she could, but I don't

LE Okay

BL But it's just

LE Did you get a sense that there was a struggle or something?

BL Yeah, I think so

LE Anything, any idea of what it would have been about?

BL No, but I feel it's personal, I don't feel it's random. But again, its... Again, I have no clue. I don't know enough about anyone associated with her, just a feeling that I had about the sex trafficking

LE Have you ever had any feelings like that prior?

BL Well, once I told my father not to go in the car and he ended up having an accident. I've had things like that happen. And the woman that I saw told me I was very intuitive, It's not something that I really, don't want to have any .. this is not something I would wish on myself

LE Sure, I understand

BL If I could help, well I just feel I should say something

LE We appreciate every kind of information, as I said before, that we can obtain,. That is definitely beneficial to us to know out there. And on that same note, is there anything that you feel is very important that I might have missed commenting on. Any specific person that we should maybe look into or talk with that we may not have talked with yet. I mean if there is anyone you can think of it would be a great help to us to know what direction to go from there.

BL Did you talk to the people with Wings of Shelter, from Sally and

LE I'm only part of that investigation I'm mostly handling staff um I don't know how far out they've reached. But yet we know she is affiliated with several different organizations. Is there a good contact person for that that you know of for Wings of Shelter?

BL Sally and Lowell I can't remember their last name, I think it's (redacted)

LE Were they a couple?

BL Yeah, but I just wanna clarify it's not anyone within the shelter

LE Oh, I understand

BL I've heard stories of her getting the girls from the ER and you know, she was just a spitfire and put herself in the way of things

LE How recently did she have anything happen like that?

BL I don't know

LE Okay. Anything else you feel that is important that I might have missed

BL No, I'm sure that you are doing all the normal things like looking at people that are close to her

LE Yes m'am

BL I don't know

The remainder is closing out the interview at 12:13 hours
 
Did AW say to her mother or law enforcement that she originally believed one thing but was mistaken? No. She chose to lie and let her mother believe she "heard wrong" and the confidential informant "heard wrong." That is choosing to lie. She didn't say "this is what I originally thought but after talking to Wayne I remembered that I was wrong." She choose to lie. Even if she believes that CWW is innocent, she chose to lie. That is a crime. Loss of children doesn't exempt you from responsibility for criminality. It might mitigate a sentence - but it doesn't allow you not to be held accountable. I choose to give the breaks and the chances to all of the innocent children (AW's included). IMO.

I don't recall whether AW explained what the change of story. I think AW chose to believe a lie, and then tried to get KM on board with version 2. I do think that AW lied about believing that KM 'heard wrong'. But that isn't a crime, that's my subjective opinion that AW was BS'ing her mother and me choosing to believe KM's statement for obvious, logical reasons.

To clarify, I don't believe that AW is exempt from punishment because of prior tragedy, rather I think she was in a place where it would much easier for CWW to convince AW that sky was green if that meant deferring more loss, emotional pain. TShomaker stated that she believes JR was simply there and didn't participate in TS's murder. And TSho actually assisted JR in destroying evidence (or trying). Some people here might argue that TSho is lying about what she "believes" given that she saw bloody evidence.

While it might be infuriating that both women are actively choosing to stick their heads in the sand, it is not a crime. Or, at least until this rises to the level of blatantly lying to LE with actual knowledge of the crime, not just suspicion of it. In fact, some states allow spouses/immediate family members to use their close, familial relation to the defendant as a defense to accessory charges. The rationale behind this is when your husband/wife, child, parent or sibling is the defendant, it might be much more difficult to see the truth. I'm not saying this is right, but I can understand why it is harder for family members to come around to seeing what their loved one is actually capable of. But like I said, I don't know when AW committed an actual crime. For me, if AW lied to LE or tried to help CWW escape to Canada, I might feel differently.
 
I don't recall whether AW explained what the change of story. I think AW chose to believe a lie, and then tried to get KM on board with version 2. I do think that AW lied about believing that KM 'heard wrong'. But that isn't a crime, that's my subjective opinion that AW was BS'ing her mother and me choosing to believe KM's statement for obvious, logical reasons.

To clarify, I don't believe that AW is exempt from punishment because of prior tragedy, rather I think she was in a place where it would much easier for CWW to convince AW that sky was green if that meant deferring more loss, emotional pain. TShomaker stated that she believes JR was simply there and didn't participate in TS's murder. And TSho actually assisted JR in destroying evidence (or trying). Some people here might argue that TSho is lying about what she "believes" given that she saw bloody evidence.

While it might be infuriating that both women are actively choosing to stick their heads in the sand, it is not a crime. Or, at least until this rises to the level of blatantly lying to LE with actual knowledge of the crime, not just suspicion of it. In fact, some states allow spouses/immediate family members to use their close, familial relation to the defendant as a defense to accessory charges. The rationale behind this is when your husband/wife, child, parent or sibling is the defendant, it might be much more difficult to see the truth. I'm not saying this is right, but I can understand why it is harder for family members to come around to seeing what their loved one is actually capable of. But like I said, I don't know when AW committed an actual crime. For me, if AW lied to LE or tried to help CWW escape to Canada, I might feel differently.

Well said!
 
I think it was also reported that AW was with CWW when he was picked up after traveling at a high rate of speed - does anyone remember that?
 
I don't recall whether AW explained what the change of story. I think AW chose to believe a lie, and then tried to get KM on board with version 2. I do think that AW lied about believing that KM 'heard wrong'. But that isn't a crime, that's my subjective opinion that AW was BS'ing her mother and me choosing to believe KM's statement for obvious, logical reasons.

To clarify, I don't believe that AW is exempt from punishment because of prior tragedy, rather I think she was in a place where it would much easier for CWW to convince AW that sky was green if that meant deferring more loss, emotional pain. TShomaker stated that she believes JR was simply there and didn't participate in TS's murder. And TSho actually assisted JR in destroying evidence (or trying). Some people here might argue that TSho is lying about what she "believes" given that she saw bloody evidence.

While it might be infuriating that both women are actively choosing to stick their heads in the sand, it is not a crime. Or, at least until this rises to the level of blatantly lying to LE with actual knowledge of the crime, not just suspicion of it. In fact, some states allow spouses/immediate family members to use their close, familial relation to the defendant as a defense to accessory charges. The rationale behind this is when your husband/wife, child, parent or sibling is the defendant, it might be much more difficult to see the truth. I'm not saying this is right, but I can understand why it is harder for family members to come around to seeing what their loved one is actually capable of. But like I said, I don't know when AW committed an actual crime. For me, if AW lied to LE or tried to help CWW escape to Canada, I might feel differently.

bbm and edited for my own purpose: Ooh, I forgot about this, do we know where they were headed when apprehended? It probably doesn't matter, but for the tv movie, ya know. Weren't they nearing a northern border at a high rate of speed of some state (nowhere near Canada, lol) but AW was driving iirc?

ETA: I swear I did not copy off your paper AR, lol!
 
BBM. My guess is no, AW did not know what was about to go down beforehand. IMO, if AW suspected prior to CWW's departure, she wouldn't have said anything to her mother about CWW's trip to FL. Further supporting this theory of mine, AW desperately tried to change the original story (and get KM to believe there was a misunderstanding) after CWW's return.

While the change of story might lead others to believe AW knew what happened after CWW came home, I think she merely suspected and convinced herself that it just looked bad for CWW. Like, really convinced herself. This woman has been through so much tragedy, I can't fault her for going into an emotional defense mode, straight up delusional denial. Also, I would bet CWW played off her emotions, making AW feel guilty for innocently telling her mother about her murderous husband's work trip and 'making him look guilty'.

And putting my armchair psych hat on, I really do think that IF CWW confessed, AW would have been a very noticeable emotional wreck. As far as punishment based on the information we have right now, I wouldn't know what, if any, punishment would be appropriate. AW is cooperative, her family is extremely cooperative...a punishment would do more harm than good IMO.

I know the fact AW tried to convince KM there was a misunderstanding and CWW went to FL for JL rubs people the wrong way, but consider whether AW truly believed she was mistaken. CWW and MS probably compare notes on gas lighting techniques. And lastly, it must have been very difficult for Kathy and Ed to be forthcoming with LE about AW's odd behavior and yet they did the right thing. I wonder if it was easier to make this decision because they knew that AW was being brainwashed, so to speak. In other words, Kathy and Ed didn't think AW would be arrested for being brainwashed and believing her evil husband. IMO CWW is the terrible person here, destroying lives left and right and AW was another victim. I am very optimistic that AW will 'see the light' with the help of therapy. Let's not forget that AW was in a very unique position to be manipulated, I couldn't create a more vulnerable person.

100% JMO and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way- TS was devoted to helping and empowering other women, specifically women who needed a break, a chance. Women who society writes off as 'troubled'. I think TS might agree that therapy is far more appropriate than punishment for a woman in AW's shoes. With all the loss AW has suffered, she probably has a way of compartmentalizing and coping but sooner or later, the truth is going to reveal itself. Therapy will induce 'truth realization' faster than punishment, but that's just my opinion.:moo:
:goodpost:creepingskills - Thank you for your expert articulation.
I’ve been wanting to post the same thoughts, but… well… hmmmm…
I think you said it so much better.
I also ponder the reality of ‘who’ says ‘what’ makes a big difference on this forum
.
 
. . . TShomaker stated that she believes JR was simply there and didn't participate in TS's murder. And TSho actually assisted JR in destroying evidence (or trying). Some people here might argue that TSho is lying about what she "believes" given that she saw bloody evidence.

While it might be infuriating that both women are actively choosing to stick their heads in the sand, it is not a crime. Or, at least until this rises to the level of blatantly lying to LE with actual knowledge of the crime, not just suspicion of it. . . .


Given that TSh didn't say anything until detectives arrived at the trailer, then initially said JR told her "I killed her with a hammer," and then later insisted, "No, he said 'We killed her with a hammer,'" and only then perhaps said he was only there, didn't participate, I think the investigators probably think she lied. I do. Remember that lovely Facebook photo of JR napping after his long drive home with a red arrow drawn to emphasize an apparent erection? Time for SMS to take out all the trash in this case.
 
I think it was also reported that AW was with CWW when he was picked up after traveling at a high rate of speed - does anyone remember that?

Yes, I do.

bbm and edited for my own purpose: Ooh, I forgot about this, do we know where they were headed when apprehended? It probably doesn't matter, but for the tv movie, ya know. Weren't they nearing a northern border at a high rate of speed of some state (nowhere near Canada, lol) but AW was driving iirc?

Great points. Would love to know where they were headed, evidence of flight perhaps?
 
Given that TSh didn't say anything until detectives arrived at the trailer, then initially said JR told her "I killed her with a hammer," and then later insisted, "No, he said 'We killed her with a hammer,'" and only then perhaps said he was only there, didn't participate, I think the investigators probably think she lied. I do. Remember that lovely Facebook photo of JR napping after his long drive home with a red arrow drawn to emphasize an apparent erection? Time for SMS to take out all the trash in this case.

BBM. Agreed. I think LE is being careful not to alienate cooperative witnesses who might become more useful as time passes. Or who knows, maybe LE is waiting for more evidence to prove obstruction/false statements. The only thing I am sure about is that if LE charged either women, they'd get lawyers and not more information to secure a conviction against CWW/JR/MS.
 
Given that TSh didn't say anything until detectives arrived at the trailer, then initially said JR told her "I killed her with a hammer," and then later insisted, "No, he said 'We killed her with a hammer,'" and only then perhaps said he was only there, didn't participate, I think the investigators probably think she lied. I do. Remember that lovely Facebook photo of JR napping after his long drive home with a red arrow drawn to emphasize an apparent erection? Time for SMS to take out all the trash in this case.

Um, wha? How do I miss these things? NOT that I want to see that, but :puke:
 
There were a few things that sort of raised my eyebrows so to speak. First was that he said at the beginning of the call he said that he was not inside but yet he was able to give very explicit details concerning if blood had dried and where she was hit and that there was a hammer on the floor. Then he finally said he had gone inside and shook her. If he was a Doctor as he claimed why did he not just check for a pulse? If he had never met the husband why did he call him to check on his wife and not some close friend. How did the man reporting know there was a spare key?
 
I am just writing questions I have isn't that the purpose of this site?
 
I am just writing questions I have isn't that the purpose of this site?

Some have answers for us. :D Even after all these months, we're still all asking questions!

Don't be offended if no one answers right away. :welcome:

My answer is that I haven't listened to his tape yet, I've been skipping around - not going in order.
 
I just listened to the AW interview and was surprised at how young she sounded. I got the impression that she is not exactly the most sophisticated person in the world.

Do you all think she recognizes what kind of trouble she could be in lying to LE or not being forthcoming? She gave a lot of denials or didn't knows in her answers.

I found it interesting that the detective thought CWW was respectful and smart and that MS was silly and immature almost. Was that an interrogation technique or was he being truthful?
 
There were a few things that sort of raised my eyebrows so to speak. First was that he said at the beginning of the call he said that he was not inside but yet he was able to give very explicit details concerning if blood had dried and where she was hit and that there was a hammer on the floor. Then he finally said he had gone inside and shook her. If he was a Doctor as he claimed why did he not just check for a pulse? If he had never met the husband why did he call him to check on his wife and not some close friend. How did the man reporting know there was a spare key?

IIRC, MP walked in and found her on the floor. He noted there was dried blood and a hammer next to her and that her head was bashed in. He said she was dead cold.

You can tell he is very shaken up on the phone. I think he didn't need to take a pulse as she was cold. He tried arousing her and he noted she was cold. Dead.

I am listening again as I type.

ETA: He went in through the garage as no one answered the door. Once he noted she had been killed, he got out of the house as he was afraid someone might still be in the house.
 

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