CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

I'll be watching...

Watching now. One of the most historical cases in CA.

Lyle and Erik Menendez's Cousin Who Testified About Their Sexual Abuse Speaks Out for 1st Time
Jan 5, 2017

The cousin of Lyle and Erik Menendez, brothers who were convicted of the 1989 murders of their parents, says she has no doubt the brothers’ parents sexually abused them.

“I know that they would never, ever have done what they did unless they felt that they had no choice -- that it was either them or their parents,” Diane Vander Molen, who is speaking for the first time since she testified at their trial, told ABC News. “I believe that very strongly.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lyle-erik-menendezs-cousin-testified-sexual-abuse-speaks/story?id=44420173

Watching it now.

Me too. Glad I saw this! It seems strange to me that they were tried together.

For what it's worth, I always believed Erik and Lyle regarding sexual abuse endured. KM knew and she overlooked it when she, as their mother, should have protected her sons from their father's vulgar years of abuse.

I do not condone how the brothers solved their painful past by shooting their parents in their own home but both parents let them down hard. I believe the abuse became worse and more intense with Jose knowing Erik wanted to go away to college in order to get away from the incest.

A new Porsche or a gold Rolex would never erase their damaged youths or mend their broken hearts but they didn't kill their parents so they could have things. They killed their parents because they were horribly and continuously sexually abused, psychologically and verbally abused, for most all of their lives. JMHO

DeDee said:

For what it's worth, I always believed Erik and Lyle regarding sexual abuse endured. KM knew and she overlooked it when she, as their mother, should have protected her sons from their father's vulgar years of abuse.

I do not condone how the brothers solved their painful past by shooting their parents in their own home but both parents let them down hard. I believe the abuse became worse and more intense with Jose knowing Erik wanted to go away to college in order to get away from the incest.

A new Porsche or a gold Rolex would never erase their damaged youths or mend their broken hearts but they didn't kill their parents so they could have things. They killed their parents because they were horribly and continuously sexually abused, psychologically and verbally abused, for most all of their lives. JMHO

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Very well put. Jose Menendez was a sadistic monster; according to Brian Alan Andersen, a cousin who lived with the family in the 1970s, Jose not only hit his sons with a belt until they were bruised (and took showers with them) but he also physically mistreated Kitty. Andersen stated that he would hear them arguing at night and the next morning Kitty would have bruises on her. She was impaired also by her emotional and mental state but she could have at the very least, told someone what was going on. She chose to stay with Jose and that ultimately sealed her fate. Her husband always came first. As a parent, your children should be your top priority. She also hurt her sons by telling them - in front of others - that she wished they had never been born. That is the most cruel thing that a mother can say to her children. She failed them in so many ways.

In the book, "Blood Brothers" by Ron Soble and John Johnson, it is mentioned that Jose did hear about the sexual abuse allegations regarding the boy band, Menudo (to whom he had signed to a record deal) and according to his West Coast Consultant, Steve Wax, would "joke about it". What kind of sicko jokes about kids being molested and raped?

The people who worked under Jose at LIVE Entertainment had their alibis ready when the police questioned them following the murders. They despised him and were not sorry to see him go.

Lyle and Erik had their spirits broken on a daily basis by the people who were supposed to love them unconditionally and protect them.

Noirdame79 said:

Very well put. Jose Menendez was a sadistic monster; according to Brian Alan Andersen, a cousin who lived with the family in the 1970s, Jose not only hit his sons with a belt until they were bruised (and took showers with them) but he also physically mistreated Kitty. Andersen stated that he would hear them arguing at night and the next morning Kitty would have bruises on her. She was impaired also by her emotional and mental state but she could have at the very least, told someone what was going on. She chose to stay with Jose and that ultimately sealed her fate. Her husband always came first. As a parent, your children should be your top priority. She also hurt her sons by telling them - in front of others - that she wished they had never been born. That is the most cruel thing that a mother can say to her children. She failed them in so many ways.

In the book, "Blood Brothers" by Ron Soble and John Johnson, it is mentioned that Jose did hear about the sexual abuse allegations regarding the boy band, Menudo (to whom he had signed to a record deal) and according to his West Coast Consultant, Steve Wax, would "joke about it". What kind of sicko jokes about kids being molested and raped?

The people who worked under Jose at LIVE Entertainment had their alibis ready when the police questioned them following the murders. They despised him and were not sorry to see him go.

Lyle and Erik had their spirits broken on a daily basis by the people who were supposed to love them unconditionally and protect them.

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Jose Menendez was a sadistic monster

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One, Erik, or both of those brothers could have played tennis against some big names had they possessed the proper work ethic but they feared their father. They could have been greater tennis players esp., Erik. Jose was always on Erik's back about something keeping EM feeling downtrodden.

I recall when Erik was living in the guest quarters after disappointing his father once again. Difficult to envision living with constant put downs and condescending comments made by one's own parents. Days and months of fear built up inside of Erik. Shame, fear, pain and hate, from the showering habits, too.

Jose's just another Jerry S@ndusky, jmho. Both abused their own sons and ruined a line of others due to their own selfish ways. The Ms mother had no friends. Friends might suspect what she already knew so she became a recluse and a tolerant alcoholic.

Years upon years, the M family lived a jagged journey. Sure they jetted around the country on occasion. Otherwise, Jose was either working or with one of his numerous lovers the rest of the time. Erik played tennis and lived outside in the garden cottage as a HS Senior so he wouldn't have to sleep with his mother but was forced to practice tennis for like five hours each day on the family courts.

Tis difficult to reconcile the brutality of their parent's murder unless finding understanding with mindset of ones who heard and felt the continual nagging, ridicule and interference, bossing, controlling and the worst of all sins of incest and the toothbrush stuff is so over the top that it reaches a fevered pitch. Obviously, that is the recipe for raising natural born killers. Parentalcide.

^^^^ You raise some very important points. "Incest mothers" whether they are actively involved in the abuse or not, tend to be dominated by their husbands and are pushed into a secondary role rather than that of an equal partner. As a result, they often bury their own pain and insecurity by retreating into a world of substance abuse, making the unable or unwilling to protect their offspring. In many cases, the kids often have to parent their own mother because she refuses to face reality. Not only does this fit Kitty Menendez perfectly but Jose fits the pattern of an incestuous father; the domineering patriarch who rules the house and family with an iron fist and terrorizes his children behind closed doors.

Kitty had far too much interest in her sons' romantic lives - she hated almost all of Lyle's girlfriends upon sight, calling them *advertiser censored*, and gold-diggers and even complained that one of them was "taking him sexually to places he was not prepared to go". This may have been irrational jealousy on her part; not only did she resent Lyle (who was Jose's favorite) for taking her husband away from her but she had been sexually inappropriate with Lyle for years, even bathing him when he was old enough to do so himself. With Erik, Kitty was always pushing him to get a girlfriend, and when he did, she had fake IDs made for them so that they could go to bars and drink, and even had the girl sleep over in Erik's bedroom, and gave him some condoms. How many mothers encourage that? Erik told her that there was foreplay but no sex, and Kitty was disappointed. It becomes even more perverse when you realize that not only did Kitty keep Erik close to her and made him a substitute, at the very least emotionally, for her husband (this is called emotional or covert incest), but that she likely knew all along what Jose was doing to Erik.

As I stated, Lyle was his father's favorite (a position that I'm sure was not an enviable one), being his father's namesake (his first name is Joesph). In Latino families, the eldest son is the one who is expected to carry on the family tradition. Lyle stated that his father sexually abused him for two years, from age 6 to 8, and then it just stopped. That of course, did little to decrease the heavy burden he carried as the oldest Menendez son. According to family members, Jose viewed his younger son as being "weak" and this may have been why he primarily targeted Erik for the sexual abuse. From age 6 to 18, Jose made Erik his sex slave. At first, it was massages and touching, which Erik viewed as a form of affection. Because he was so desperate for his father's love and approval, at first he welcomed his father's advances (undoubtedly compounding his sense of shame), but by the time he was about 12 it became painful because his father would rape him (sometimes with objects), force him to perform oral sex and would stick sharp objects like tacks and needles into his thighs and genitals. Erik told his aunt and uncle that the last time that his father raped him was in May 1989, just weeks before his high school graduation ceremony. According to Erik, the rape was a punishment for his anticipated failing grade in chemistry.

All abuse victims carry the additional load of having to put up a facade in public of the happy family. As if the fear, pain and trauma isn't enough. There was no way that the brothers could meet their father's colossal expectations and standards. At the time, people probably didn't know what to look for but the signs were definitely there. Jose kept the boys socially isolated in their early years, which is the kind of situation where abuse often thrives. Lyle was could be aggressive, but more often than not he would just suppress his emotions to the point where one of his teachers at Princeton Day School characterized him as being "like a robot", as Jose viewed emotion as weakness. Lyle wet the bed until he was 14 years old and could not sleep without his stuffed animals. Erik had been a very exuberant toddler but around the age of 5 he became withdrawn and fearful. He was terrified of the dark and of monsters. These kids had serious emotional issues but back then nobody intervened.

This photo of Jose with the boys on his lap is worth a thousand words. (Erik is on the left, Lyle is on the right):



Look where Jose has his hand! Lyle looks to be about 6 years old in this photo, which was around the time he stated that his father began molesting him.

Jose's favorite book was "The Greatest Salesman In The World" by Og Mandino. He used passages of the book as his code for life and business. There is one oddly prophetic and disturbing quote:

"Today I will fondle my children when they are young: tomorrow they will be gone and so will I."

After reading this thread, I'm not so sure I don't agree with what the boys did. I'm about to throw up.

Gardenista said:

After reading this thread, I'm not so sure I don't agree with what the boys did. I'm about to throw up.

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I apologize. I didn't mean to make you feel sick. But really, if this is true (and I think it likely is) it is truly horrifying.

Re-reading one of the books on the case, I came across something that is very telling. Kitty Menendez was seeing a therapist, who noted that she was depressed over her marriage and Jose's philandering, but felt that there was something darker and more sinister below the surface. When he pressed her about it, Kitty would not reveal what else was going on, only that it was "sick and embarrassing". He called Jose in for a meeting; Jose did not treat Kitty like a wife that he loved but as someone he needed to run the household and to look after the boys, but he seemed unwilling to acknowledge that Kitty wanted his love and affection.

Another thing that seems meaningful in retrospect is that Alicia Hercz, who taught Spanish at Princeton Day School and who was a casual friend of Kitty's, recalled that Lyle at about age 14, twice entered her office, sat down, and stared intently at her. She tried to engage him in conversation (she would ask him how he was or if he needed help with his homework, etc) but he would never respond. It almost seemed as if he was in a trance. After about forty-five minutes, he would get up and leave, again without saying a word. When Hercz told Kitty about these incidents, Lyle never came into her office again.

On August 14, 1989, just days before the murders, Jose visited his mother Maria and told her that he was looking forward to retiring soon if he could pull off a $20 million deal and hoped that he could run for office. He made the telling comment that he wanted to be nearby while Erik was attending UCLA.

The more I read about it, the more hints I see that indicate that there was indeed something dark and disturbing going on. I think it was gradually building until it exploded.

It looked almost like Andre Agassi in the photo with Erik. Andre and Erik did some hitting together. When Andre was 14yo he moved to FL to play tennis away from his oppressive "tennis" father.

In Andre's autobiographical book Open, he exposed:

he hated tennis "with a dark and secret passion," thanks to the trauma he suffered under the regimen of his brutal father.

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Mike Agassi (who published his own autobiography) was just one among many notorious parents I knew while growing up in the Southern California junior tennis circuit. Another was Jose Menendez, the father of Lyle and Erik Menendez, who moved the family from Princeton, New Jersey, to the greater Los Angeles area when Erik, the younger sibling, was a teenager.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...assi-and-the-menendez-brothers-have-in-common

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When the brothers were young, Jose demanded that they pick one sport in which to excel, and he recommended that it be an individual pursuit. By the time Lyle was twelve and Erik nine, they had selected tennis. Their parents devoted their time and money toward their sons' games. While Jose oversaw their progress, Kitty managed their daily schedules.

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I lived a life similar to these other tennis families when my DD played years of competitive tennis. It was high stress that she managed to handle with a cool head. She was going to play at Wimbledon or die trying was my X's attitude. He micromanaged her free time, her practice time, her hitting, her running, her diet, her life ... until she went to college in another state!
She has a fantastic life. I'm the one with PTSD :thinking:

DeDee said:

It looked almost like Andre Agassi in the photo with Erik. Andre and Erik did some hitting together. When Andre was 14yo he moved to FL to play tennis away from his oppressive "tennis" father.

In Andre's autobiographical book Open, he exposed:






I lived a life similar to these other tennis families when my DD played years of competitive tennis. It was high stress that she managed to handle with a cool head. She was going to play at Wimbledon or die trying was my X's attitude. He micromanaged her free time, her practice time, her hitting, her running, her diet, her life ... until she went to college in another state!
She has a fantastic life. I'm the one with PTSD :thinking:

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Wow! Sorry you have to deal with that. Until I started reading up on this case, I had no idea how competitive tennis is as a sport, and how many parents (fathers especially it seems) not only pressure them to win, but who obsessively monitor their every move! Jose, being the narcissist that he was, probably would have dominated his sons' lives no matter what, but no doubt their involvement in tennis only increased that controlling and competitive edge.

Speaking for myself, I was not athletic, nor was I competitive (but then again, my mother and stepfather didn't do much for me anyway, they just made me into something of a slave), but my brother played hockey and I hated how hard they pushed him to win all the time. I think it killed his enthusiasm for the sport. They always seemed to know what I was doing all the time, so even at school or with friends or relatives I was too afraid to say that they were physically and emotionally abusing me. Now they act like nothing happened at all, which is really annoying. Isn't it interesting how abusive parents justify their behavior at the time and then later conveniently "forget" that they hurt their kids!

Lyle and Erik with their mother. I apologize for the poor quality



With their father



Lyle



Erik, from a modelling session



Erik posing on the motor scooter that his parents gave him as a graduation present

Noirdame79 said:

Wow! Sorry you have to deal with that. Until I started reading up on this case, I had no idea how competitive tennis is as a sport, and how many parents (fathers especially it seems) not only pressure them to win, but who obsessively monitor their every move! Jose, being the narcissist that he was, probably would have dominated his sons' lives no matter what, but no doubt their involvement in tennis only increased that controlling and competitive edge.

Speaking for myself, I was not athletic, nor was I competitive (but then again, my mother and stepfather didn't do much for me anyway, they just made me into something of a slave), but my brother played hockey and I hated how hard they pushed him to win all the time. I think it killed his enthusiasm for the sport. They always seemed to know what I was doing all the time, so even at school or with friends or relatives I was too afraid to say that they were physically and emotionally abusing me. Now they act like nothing happened at all, which is really annoying. Isn't it interesting how abusive parents justify their behavior at the time and then later conveniently "forget" that they hurt their kids!

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Thank you, Noirdame79. On the upside, I spent hours with my DD and with her participation in tournaments and Jr Davis and such, I was a happy tourist to many cities in our glorious country. The most difficult was hearing my DD being cussed out in Portuguese on the tennis court and not being able to save her from it!

Your mother and step-father must hold regretful feelings of sorrow for hurting you. No one should become a slave to others. My condolences for any loss of happiness. May enjoyable memories abound!

Today is Lyle's birthday. He is 49yo. His father died with a four million dollar estate. If Lyle had left Erik out of the crime, he probably could have gotten away with it. Erik had a concious that bothered him.

Jose drilled holes into walls and such so he could watch Erik in his bedroom and bath! Who can live normally under such scrutiny? Moreover, Jose recorded Erik playing in tennis matches while in high school and would critique the film with Erik when the matches were over.

Did the parents deserve to die in the heinous manner they did? Absolutely not! Kitty was standing and likely running and screaming. The bottom line is that if not for the continuous, horrific, demeaning, disgusting, sexual abuse then the double parenticide would have never happened. JMHO

Thank you for posting the photos. I searched, via only Bing, for a video of Lyle or Erik playing tennis, to no avail.

Erik has thrived in prison without fear of being assaulted each night while he slept. He told lawyer, LA, that his mistake was in not killing himself instead of killing his parents. Does anyone know the name of the Tennis Pro that Erik hired after his parent's death?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spa8yMnItj8

Kitty and Jose Menendez murders happened in 1989. The brothers' first trial was in 1993.

Coach Recounts Demands Made on Brothers : Trial: Tennis instructor testifies that Jose Menendez was the worst parent he had ever encountered.
August 21, 1993|ALAN ABRAHAMSON | TIMES STAFF WRITER

Lyle and Erik Menendez's first tennis coach testified Friday that he never saw love in the Menendez family.

Charles P. Wadlington testified at their murder trial that their mother, Kitty Menendez, was always angry and sarcastic. Their father, Jose Menendez, was unrelentingly demanding and "the harshest person I'd ever met," Wadlington said.

Jose Menendez ran the family "sort of like his business," said Wadlington, who was the brothers' tennis coach for five years and fought back tears as he testified. "He would give the orders and they would follow him."

He added about his pupils: "I thought I was about all they had."

Listening to Wadlington, a juror wiped tears from her eyes. Lyle Menendez, 25, slumped in his chair, and Erik Menendez, 22, took his glasses off and buried his face in his hands.
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-08-21/local/me-25964_1_jose-menendez

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DeDee said:

Does anyone know the name of the Tennis Pro that Erik hired after his parent's death?

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Mark Heffernan

Peppermintswirlz said:

Mark Heffernan

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I remember in one of the documentaries on the case, Heffernan stated that Erik was often very emotional, and that he would often find Erik in tears.

DeDee said:

Kitty and Jose Menendez murders happened in 1989. The brothers' first trial was in 1993.

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I was very moved by Wadlington's testimony. It obviously still upset him. How the prosecution could claim that they were outraged on behalf of "real victims" of abuse and overlook or mock so many eyewitnesses (including the brothers themselves) was extremely biased. In both trials, actually. David Conn was no better.