S1 Ep 6 Auditing - A&E Leah Remini - Scientology and the Aftermath

Madeleine74 said:

Tom Cruise gets accolades because he gives Million$ to the cult, and like any generous and famous benefactor, he gets showered with attention and acclaim. He's their prize calf and they intend to keep him well controlled and in the fold. He doesn't see the treatment that happens to others, most of these celebs don't see it because they are coddled.

Click to expand...

You may be right that Tom doesn't know, but somebody on one of the episodes said he has to know that the people who clean his house, detail his cars, etc., are all working for less than minimum wage. Obviously, I don't know the man. But it wouldn't surprise me if he justifies the discrepancy by reasoning that the servitude is helping the others "grow".

buggiegirl said:

Like lots of cults, they prey on vulnerable people. Young people who are naive, people who are having a hard time with a career or their personal lives, single parents that are struggling. If your life is going the exact way you want it to, you are just not going to go looking for answers Scientology says they provide.

Click to expand...

True, but couldn't we say that of every religion? I've never heard a Born Again Christian testify that he or she was anything but lost when s/he suddenly "found" Christ.

And haven't we heard almost every interviewee say the initial courses and readings WERE helpful to them? (Who knows why? Maybe they just needed somebody to talk to.)

It's the later, full-time immersion and living under the thumb of COB Miscavige that is so abusive.

What I find astonishing is the fact that members are well aware that families are broken up when members leave.

The members who stay are forbidden any contact with their loved ones who have left.

Yet they stay. I cannot understand this.

Is the force to stay within this cult greater than abandoning family members? I can't fathom this.

If so, and it sure seems to be the case, then 1) it definitely is a cult 2) there is brainwashing

I can sort of see members abandoning family members if they were all living in a commune away from society. But these people are living every day lives. How can they not see what they are doing?

I join in praising Leah Remini for all she is doing. Hopefully more members will leave. At least there is public discourse
concerning Scientology and that is something they must hate.

Bring it on Leah!

Cult members are brainwashed over a long time. They live in fear of disobeying. The pressure to disconnect is one of their foundational tenants and anyone leaving is considered among the worst of the worst.

Madeleine74 said:

Cult members are brainwashed over a long time. They live in fear of disobeying. The pressure to disconnect is one of their foundational tenants and anyone leaving is considered among the worst of the worst.

Click to expand...

I think we should be careful with the "b" word. Psychologists apply it sparingly to people like POWs. The Sea Org elite in "the Hole" in Hemet may well become brainwashed by that experience, but I doubt the word means much if applied to the rank-and-file. Most organizations exert strong social pressures on their members to conform. And most people who radically change their world views--not only the religious, but people who stay in a job or a marriage for too long--look back and say, "What was I thinking? I must have been brainwashed!"

But that's a popular use of the word and doesn't really describe any specific technique.

zencompass said:

What I find astonishing is the fact that members are well aware that families are broken up when members leave.

The members who stay are forbidden any contact with their loved ones who have left.

Yet they stay. I cannot understand this.

Is the force to stay within this cult greater than abandoning family members? I can't fathom this.

If so, and it sure seems to be the case, then 1) it definitely is a cult 2) there is brainwashing

I can sort of see members abandoning family members if they were all living in a commune away from society. But these people are living every day lives. How can they not see what they are doing?

I join in praising Leah Remini for all she is doing. Hopefully more members will leave. At least there is public discourse
concerning Scientology and that is something they must hate.

Bring it on Leah!

Click to expand...

I agree with you on the whole. But imagine an authoritarian organization that controls every aspect of its lower-ranking members' behavior, schedule and hygiene; that metes out severe penalties for speaking out against official policy; that has its own police force to ensure members' compliance with rules and regulations; that sends people to retrieve anyone who tries to escape; that sends its members abroad for months, even years, at a time, forcing long absences from the member's spouse and children; and for all these restrictions pays less than minimum wage.

Would you say that organization's members had been brainwashed?

Or would you call them patriotic members of the U.S. military?

I see what you did there Nova. But there are also some very key differences. Some of the more notable ones are the military does not accept minors, does not require recruits sign billion year contracts, does not demand repayment for funds spent training them, and does not require that they disassociate themselves with their non patriotic family members.

All of which is really off topic because the topic of this forum is the organization of Scientology and not the military.

But thank you for getting the grey matter firing.

Nova said:

True, but couldn't we say that of every religion? I've never heard a Born Again Christian testify that he or she was anything but lost when s/he suddenly "found" Christ.

And haven't we heard almost every interviewee say the initial courses and readings WERE helpful to them? (Who knows why? Maybe they just needed somebody to talk to.)

It's the later, full-time immersion and living under the thumb of COB Miscavige that is so abusive.

Click to expand...

I am an atheist and I am not a fan of any organized religion, but there is a massive difference between Scientology and growing up Catholic like I did. I decided I didn't believe any of that god stuff, and slowly left, told my parents as gently as I could that I was not a believer and never would be, and absolutely no one cared at all. My parents were sad for a bit but got over it and basically left the church as well (they could not handle the pedophile scandals or the church sticking its nose into politics), and the Catholic church sure as heck never hunted me down or cared that I left, didn't believe, was vocal about being a nonbeliever etc. And on top of all that, for a few years after I decided I didn't believe, I still went to Christmas Eve mass with my parents because they appreciated me being there and I like the music and decorations, so whatever. I wasn't approached to come back, I wasn't shunned at the door. Noooone of that would happen with Scientology, so there is a HUGE difference.

But I do completely agree that a lot of people who are lost find religion because they are looking for answers. One reason I find I don't need religion or god is because I don't care about the answers. Death doesn't bother me, I don't wonder "what comes next" and I am cool with the science explanations for why we are here, where we came from, etc.

They do say that low level Scientologists can quietly leave and not deal with being stalked or forced to disconnect, and that those things are generally reserved for Sea Org members. But even the low level Scientologists are forced to do Scient. work every single day, for hours a day. As a Catholic growing up, I went to church Sunday mornings for 1 hour, and CCD before church for 1 hour. That was the entirety of my required participation. And IMO, that was my parents requiring it, not the church. I could have gone to mass every week and not done the whole CCD thing and no one would have known.

My point wasn't to indict either the Catholic Church or the U.S. military. But if we're honest, we should admit that we judge these authoritarian organizations at least in part based on how we feel about their ultimate purpose.

If we thought Scientology were defending us from ISIS, we'd probably overlook a few tantrums from DM.

(ticya, there are plenty of examples of military recruiters looking the other way so that 16 and 17-year-olds can enlist without parental consent. bubblegirl, good for your parents! But one friend of mine found her Catholic parents stopped speaking to her because she married outside the faith. And we all know of ways in which the church has protected the institution over the welfare of its congregation. But even a pacifist such as myself accepts that the military and the Church do some good and are basically well intentioned. We just can't see any "good" that comes from the Co$, perhaps because there isn't any.)

Scientology is a cult plain and simple. You have a megalomaniac who is a bully and control freak. This Pope of profit and control needs drop kicked off his self imposed pedestal and he can take Tom Cruise with him. There are petitions out there to have the tax exempt status removed.

Of course these are my opinions but I know I'm not alone.

Hatfield said:

---Their books and classes that they force their members to take give them nothing of value in the real world if a member wants to leave.

Its not like they can list anything on a resume that they graduated with a college degree or anything. Their teachings are their own and are not recognized by companies so its useless all that training to members that want to leave the group.

They must feel so helpless and feel forced to stay since they have no real skills or training that can help them get a job on the outside world.

Its another form of control the group uses on its members.

Click to expand...

I just wanted to mention that almost everything you are talking about is about Sea Org members and not just average CoS members. An average CoS member would probably have a job in the outside world and would have been trained for it normally, by going to college or learning on the job, and therefore would have skills and a resume to take with them after leaving. It's also true of many Sea Org members, especially if they joined later in life after they had some college/work experience. Also some of them get real world training that "translates" in the outside world. Like the ones who worked for Golden Era Productions, they have tech experience making movies, videos, advertising, music cds etc.

I think the worst part is losing all the people you know and love, your family and friends, and I think that holds people to CoS more than anything. I also think CoS knows that and why they have "Disconnection" as a policy is that it forces people to stay, or at least much longer than they ever wanted to. I can't imagine going off and leaving behind my husband and sons, parents, possibly even aunts, uncles, cousins, your closest friends are probably scientologists so I'd be leaving all them behind too. You're going out into the world completely alone, I couldn't do it. Leah got really lucky that everyone loved her more than they believed in Scientology!

Nova said:

You may be right that Tom doesn't know, but somebody on one of the episodes said he has to know that the people who clean his house, detail his cars, etc., are all working for less than minimum wage. Obviously, I don't know the man. But it wouldn't surprise me if he justifies the discrepancy by reasoning that the servitude is helping the others "grow".

Click to expand...

He knows. I think his celebrity and especially his celebrity in scientology has gone to his head. He treats people like crap and like they are his slaves. When he says jump they damn well better not only jump but ask how high? I've heard some disturbing and crazy stories about the things he has had peon scientologists do. Like he told Miscavige he wanted to run through a field of flowers with Nicole. Miscavige got a work crew of Sea Org people to dig up a field and plant flowers overnight so that this field would bloom in time for Cruise/Kidman's visit to Int. Base near Hemet CA. Then they changed their minds and so all this overnight work was done for nothing. Then there is the time his niece was caught kissing a boy she liked, she was sent away from home for months for auditing and digging ditches and other hard labor from sun up to sun down. She was like only 14. And then there is the time that the Miscaviges auditioned scientology actresses as the next Mrs. Cruise...yeah you gotta read that one for yourselves.

It's the later, full-time immersion and living under the thumb of COB Miscavige that is so abusive.

Cults don't provide any satisfaction. It's like dangling a carrot on a stick in front of a Rabbit.

You keep advancing, but for what? "Something" will happen, but when?!