MaM a Year Later - Reconstruct the Crime

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Limaes said:
The barrel you're concerned with his #4. Nothing of evidentiary value was found in it so what is it exactly they're supposed to have planted in it?
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Well, HI Limaes~~Welcome back, we've missed you. Hope everything is ok with you!!!

It's just really strange they were taken and then returned. Perhaps, slight of hand from #4 to another barrel? JMHO of course.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
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Well, HI Limaes~~Welcome back, we've missed you. Hope everything is ok with you!!!

It's just really strange they were taken and then returned. Perhaps, slight of hand from #4 to another barrel? JMHO of course.
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What do you mean "they"? If you read the other reports regarding barrel #4 it is not so strange. I sincerely can not see anything nefarious. Nothing of evidentiary value was found in #4 at any stage.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
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Well, HI Limaes~~Welcome back, we've missed you. Hope everything is ok with you!!!

It's just really strange they were taken and then returned. Perhaps, slight of hand from #4 to another barrel? JMHO of course.
Click to expand...

Given how poorly the investigation appears to have been documented I don't feel very confident even the cops know which barrels came from where.
 
proudfootz said:
Given how poorly the investigation appears to have been documented I don't feel very confident even the cops know which barrels came from where.
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Sure does make ya wonder, IMO

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
proudfootz said:
Given how poorly the investigation appears to have been documented I don't feel very confident even the cops know which barrels came from where.
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Yes the whole investigation was dreadful and the manner in which Ms. Halbach's bones were collected is just unreal for a police investigation. I don't think such disrespectful treatment of the bones should of even been admissable evidence because of the way in which everything to do with the remains lacked proper documentation and photographing in situ of them. The bones could of come from anywhere for all we know and not necessarily Avery's. And what about the way the box of bones were delivered to the lab.
 
proudfootz said:
Given how poorly the investigation appears to have been documented I don't feel very confident even the cops know which barrels came from where.
Click to expand...

I have tried following them in the CASO reports, I got about half way through... I have some time today, maybe I will go back to it and see if I can make any sense of it, or at the very least, show just how confusing it is.

The thing with barrel #4 that gets me is... they emptied it, put it back on the trailer, returned it to the Avery property, retrieved it again, and then went through it again. How did anything get back into that barrel to go through? Doesn't make sense to me. There is also another barrel that is mentioned and I haven't been able to figure out where it came from yet.
 
missy1974 said:
I have tried following them in the CASO reports, I got about half way through... I have some time today, maybe I will go back to it and see if I can make any sense of it, or at the very least, show just how confusing it is.

The thing with barrel #4 that gets me is... they emptied it, put it back on the trailer, returned it to the Avery property, retrieved it again, and then went through it again. How did anything get back into that barrel to go through? Doesn't make sense to me. There is also another barrel that is mentioned and I haven't been able to figure out where it came from yet.
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Looking forward to reading your perspective on this😊
( Should you be able to make heads or tails out of any of it😉 )

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missy1974 said:
I have tried following them in the CASO reports, I got about half way through... I have some time today, maybe I will go back to it and see if I can make any sense of it, or at the very least, show just how confusing it is.

The thing with barrel #4 that gets me is... they emptied it, put it back on the trailer, returned it to the Avery property, retrieved it again, and then went through it again. How did anything get back into that barrel to go through? Doesn't make sense to me. There is also another barrel that is mentioned and I haven't been able to figure out where it came from yet.
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The other barrel came from JR's deer camp.
 
I thought this was an interesting read
(quote)
Was There Really a Bonfire on Halloween?
If we consider the possibility that there was no bonfire on Halloween, we can also consider the likelihood that there was never a body or phone and camera parts burned on that property. The remains were in a condition consistent with a cremation. No crowns of the teeth remained; only root fragments (link). The condition of the bones combined with the fact that the collection wasn’t documented with a single photo and the indications that there was no bonfire on 10/31 means that we must consider that not only was the key, the blood and the bullet planted — so were the bones, and there is a considerable amount of circumstantial evidence to support this claim.
https://stopwrongfulconvictions.wordpress.com/2016/02/09/was-there-really-a-bonfire-on-halloween/
 
Karinna said:
I thought this was an interesting read
(quote)
Was There Really a Bonfire on Halloween?
If we consider the possibility that there was no bonfire on Halloween, we can also consider the likelihood that there was never a body or phone and camera parts burned on that property. The remains were in a condition consistent with a cremation. No crowns of the teeth remained; only root fragments (link). The condition of the bones combined with the fact that the collection wasn’t documented with a single photo and the indications that there was no bonfire on 10/31 means that we must consider that not only was the key, the blood and the bullet planted — so were the bones, and there is a considerable amount of circumstantial evidence to support this claim.
https://stopwrongfulconvictions.wordpress.com/2016/02/09/was-there-really-a-bonfire-on-halloween/
Click to expand...


About that fire....how many tires were used total?....can a few tires burn at 1800 degrees (number from the forensic dentist) without something pumping air into it? Blacksmiths need an air source, a "blower" or bellows to get coal up to 1400-1500 degrees for iron and steel work. Without that air source, the coal will normally not get anywhere near hot enough unless the fire was massive.

Also, just as a side note, the hotter the fire, the more air it needs and the faster the fuel source (like tires) get used up. Tires normally ignite at around 750 according to cursory research.

I found a guy who says he has burned tires and the hottest part of the burn lasted only for 30-45 minutes with one tire. And the whole body needs to be wreathed in cremation temperature flames...that sounds like a fairly large number of tires to me.

Edited to add the info below:
A traditional Hindu funeral pyre takes six hours and burns 500–600 kilogrammes (1,102–1,323 pounds) of wood to burn a body completely

From wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyre
 
BigCityAccountant said:
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The other barrel came from JR's deer camp.
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I thought this too... but the deer camp barrel said "deer camp" on it. But this is how it was reported:

At approximately 1630 hours, Sgt. BILL TYSON, Deputy NICHOLAS J. SABLICH and I recovered two burn barrels from the AVERY property. One of those was marked burn barrel #4.

page 173 of Caso.

The barrel's are a mess, I start looking at them, make a few notes, then walk away LOL
 
At best this was incompetence.

But it could very well be malfeasance disguised as incompetence.

Blocking the forensic specialists from examining the scene and properly documenting it speaks to the latter.
 
Saul Vesalot said:
About that fire....how many tires were used total?....can a few tires burn at 1800 degrees (number from the forensic dentist) without something pumping air into it? Blacksmiths need an air source, a "blower" or bellows to get coal up to 1400-1500 degrees for iron and steel work. Without that air source, the coal will normally not get anywhere near hot enough unless the fire was massive.

Also, just as a side note, the hotter the fire, the more air it needs and the faster the fuel source (like tires) get used up. Tires normally ignite at around 750 according to cursory research.

I found a guy who says he has burned tires and the hottest part of the burn lasted only for 30-45 minutes with one tire. And the whole body needs to be wreathed in cremation temperature flames...that sounds like a fairly large number of tires to me.

Edited to add the info below:
A traditional Hindu funeral pyre takes six hours and burns 500–600 kilogrammes (1,102–1,323 pounds) of wood to burn a body completely

From wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyre
Click to expand...

If there was no bonfire then TH's body wasn't burned in a bonfire though. And why would the Avery's have invited people to a bonfire on Halloween to burn a body. Didn't happen IMO.
Even when people are burned in house fires or other scenarios the teeth will survive and is usually how those victims are identified through dental records.
TH's teeth were pretty much destroyed as far as that goes. Unless someone busted up bones and teeth to destroy all identity of the victim for whatever reason?
 
missy1974 said:
I thought this too... but the deer camp barrel said "deer camp" on it. But this is how it was reported:

At approximately 1630 hours, Sgt. BILL TYSON, Deputy NICHOLAS J. SABLICH and I recovered two burn barrels from the AVERY property. One of those was marked burn barrel #4.

page 173 of Caso.

The barrel's are a mess, I start looking at them, make a few notes, then walk away LOL
Click to expand...

That was when #4 was taken back the second time. Again, nothing of evidentiary value was found at any stage. Can't see any malicious actions there. Jmo
 
proudfootz said:
At best this was incompetence.

But it could very well be malfeasance disguised as incompetence.

Blocking the forensic specialists from examining the scene and properly documenting it speaks to the latter.
Click to expand...

:takeabow::goodpost::applause:

If I could give 1000 Thanks to this post, I would! Perfectly stated to how I feel about that investigation, but I will take it one step further. I might have been able to say, at the LEAST, it was incompetence if not for the fact of the sheer number of coincidences, typos, and sometimes scarily obvious (the bones and barrels) acts of negligence and ignorance that the state and LE would have everyone to believe. JMo_Of course.

Edited to add: Even if LE actions in the TH investigation can be explained away as "incompetence" that still leaves me extremely worried for the people who have to live in those areas and the level of protection they can rely on. The scariest part (and why EVERYONE who happens to live in small town America should have concerns) is that this could have (and does) happen all across the country. That is what has kept me here for over a year now, as it scared me how obvious it can be when one really digs beneath the surface of what the media is telling us in some of these cases. Still all IMO.
 
Jaiddie said:
If I could give 1000 Thanks to this post, I would! Perfectly stated to how I feel about that investigation, but I will take it one step further. I might have been able to say, at the LEAST, it was incompetence if not for the fact of the sheer number of coincidences, typos, and sometimes scarily obvious (the bones and barrels) acts of negligence and ignorance that the state and LE would have everyone to believe. JMo_Of course.

Edited to add: Even if LE actions in the TH investigation can be explained away as "incompetence" that still leaves me extremely worried for the people who have to live in those areas and the level of protection they can rely on. The scariest part (and why EVERYONE who happens to live in small town America should have concerns) is that this could have (and does) happen all across the country. That is what has kept me here for over a year now, as it scared me how obvious it can be when one really digs beneath the surface of what the media is telling us in some of these cases. Still all IMO.
Click to expand...
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Hi Jaddie!! :seeya:

:goodpost::yeahthat:
 
Don't know if this has ever been discussed here and didn't see a thread for it under the headers but sounds very suspicious. If not ok. to post here mod can please delete.
(quote)
Let me clear up the confusion.

According to DCI Agent SKORLINSKI and CASO Investigator DEDERING, master key (#M1) was missing. It seems the only confusion here is the definition of “theory” and “debunked”.

Prior to Jan 12, 2007, the Department of Public Works (DPW) stated, for the record, that MTSO was in possession of a master key to courthouse. However, several weeks later Petersen claimed he hadn’t seen master key #M1 (MASTER KEY TO THE COUNTY COURTHOUSE) in years. Twelve days later, asst. director of DPW (Kocourek’s nephew, NEUSER) proactively called DEDERING and claimed master key #M1 had been destroyed in 2001. Unfortunately for Kocourek’s nephew and Petersen, a county employee had already claimed ownership of master key #M1 earlier that month. She changed her story after NEUSER’s phone call to DEDERING.
continue reading here
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockMa...once_and_for_all_jan_12_2007/#bottom-comments
 
Karinna said:
Don't know if this has ever been discussed here and didn't see a thread for it under the headers but sounds very suspicious. If not ok. to post here mod can please delete.
(quote)
Let me clear up the confusion.

According to DCI Agent SKORLINSKI and CASO Investigator DEDERING, master key (#M1) was missing. It seems the only confusion here is the definition of “theory” and “debunked”.

Prior to Jan 12, 2007, the Department of Public Works (DPW) stated, for the record, that MTSO was in possession of a master key to courthouse. However, several weeks later Petersen claimed he hadn’t seen master key #M1 (MASTER KEY TO THE COUNTY COURTHOUSE) in years. Twelve days later, asst. director of DPW (Kocourek’s nephew, NEUSER) proactively called DEDERING and claimed master key #M1 had been destroyed in 2001. Unfortunately for Kocourek’s nephew and Petersen, a county employee had already claimed ownership of master key #M1 earlier that month. She changed her story after NEUSER’s phone call to DEDERING.
continue reading here
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockMa...once_and_for_all_jan_12_2007/#bottom-comments
Click to expand...

I have read about that! I'm not sure we have discussed it much on here though. It's interesting to see who they claim had possession of the M1 key and they claim it was destroyed. How would they know that?

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=1088

The contracted employee, RE, was married to CE (http://imgur.com/FOv2sB1).

CE.... is the woman that was attacked by AM on November 5th with an axe. Here is her interview with Baldwin: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=325

oh and.... RE passed in 2006 too I think.
 
missy1974 said:
I have read about that! I'm not sure we have discussed it much on here though. It's interesting to see who they claim had possession of the M1 key and they claim it was destroyed. How would they know that?

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=1088

The contracted employee, RE, was married to CE (http://imgur.com/FOv2sB1).

CE.... is the woman that was attacked by AM on November 5th with an axe. Here is her interview with Baldwin: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=325

oh and.... RE passed in 2006 too I think.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply missy & links. BBM, Yes and who destroys a key anyway? And good question about who knew that anyway.
And AM was in jail with SA too i think from what i read. Strange goings on in MC for sure.
 
There was a discussion some pages back about a bloodhound sensing something near the end of Kuss rd. This is from Buting's questioning of Fassbender clearing that up.

7607a0165bcad0a3fc12b4cd0be85da3.jpg
 
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