IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #5

Sorry if this has been asked before, but were Lyric and Lizzie found on the 13th or went missing then. Just wondering if there was any connection with the 13th?


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steelman said:

First of all, when they schedule a press conference 24 hours in advance, you can rest assured that there isn't going to be some kind of earth shattering information on the horizon.

However...........maybe tomorrow is the day they plan on releasing a few more drips of information in order to generate more tips.

So let's all get a chant started.....video......video.........video......video.......video......video......video !!!

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I'll chant along gladly. But it may just be to announce a reward. I really hate the thought of LE purposefully withholding more useful information another day. Perhaps this is psychological and aimed at their suspect to watch his reaction?

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AmericanGraffiti said:

Wow. I'm hoping the announcement isn't that they don't have any new leads

Cant wait to hear what they are going to say...

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My thoughts exactly....but really....my gut says that's exactly what they are going to say. My gut says that they have DNA and other evidence....but the suspect is long gone and the pic is too low quality for it to do any good.

lmadler said:

Oh heck. He is moving the position of his right hand to inside or under his jacket

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That's what I've seen since first analyzing the images.

Great sleuthing by the folks on here re: where on the bridge this guy waa. My first instinct was to say they were close to the end of the bridge when those images were taken from a trail cam, then I figured it must be phone video. I thought he was close to them, as in within 4 or so steps, but the quality of the images is poor enough to suggest he was at least 50 feet away.

I just grabbed a spare phone of mine, an HTC which is about a year old. Took a 3 second video in my backyard, which has trees and brush along the property line about 60 feet away, with a grassy pathway. Moved/panned the phone slightly for the 3 sec. video. Then came inside to take a screen shot to analyze it

Zooming in on stuff 60+ feet back reveals no depth of field, and other optical effects which photographers look for in image quality. Plus, this guy was moving.

I maintain those images were taken mere moments before he attacked them. He could have waited near the spot where they were murdered, waiting for (I hate to say this) the right victim or victims to get on the bridge. He watches them, notes the speed with which they were traveling across the bridge, and then figured he had to make his move. Walks along the creek on the far side, gets on to the bridge, and mere minutes later is almost across the bridge when the images were taken on the phone.

Almost across the bridge, and mere steps away from the girls, he pulls out one, maybe two weapons. They panic, and start running down the embankment towards the creek, then follow the creek while he's chasing them.

They get to the creek and start to cross it. He's taller, and is able to cross the creek just a little more quickly than them. Catches up either in the creek or on the far embankment, maybe it was in the creek the one girl put up a fight.

This scenario explains further the tight time frame. They could have been dead by 3PM, maybe even as early as 2:30 or so.

rotary_dial said:

There is no possible way someone could identify the caliber of those guns in the above picture, from a clothing outline using a picture like the one of the suspect.

How could they possibly tell you which outline is the 9mm, 10mm, .38, or .45?

edit: all of the above handguns are different caliber.



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(Very interesting. What's the answer and the link source? I might have just had my arse handed to me here. That's alright! :biggrin: (Politely bows)...it's all about the girls! :heart:

Just getting in and caught up, I see a PC is scheduled, yay, this is all so intense...

Eta: I'll guess the biggest is the 45, the shortest is the 38...I'm probably wrong LOL...point well taken though...!!)

I agree. I hope not, but I do think that is what they are likely to say. Hopefully something happens today to change that.

SJCaseFollower said:

My thoughts exactly....but really....my gut says that's exactly what they are going to say. My gut says that they have DNA and other evidence....but the suspect is long gone and the pic is too low quality for it to do any good.

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carbuff said:

I agree about him probably just being a person who walks with his hands in his pockets. I do that all the time and I'm very uncomfortable when for some reason (stupid women's skirts with no pockets) I can't. If it's a habit, that might be something to watch out for in identifying the guy.

I think he might have parked out of the immediate area and walked to/from a car parked a couple of miles away. (I keep coming back to that packing plant and its parking lot.) But I agree it's unlikely he hitched any rides.

I think they know or have evidence that he is no longer wearing the clothing shown in that video, and that no clothing was found at the crime scene, and have extrapolated that he probably placed the other clothing in some kind of carrying receptacle like a duffel or backpack and disposed of it elsewhere.

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What about a bicycle...easy to conceal and very quiet.

Bently said:

I had not considered that until I saw the gif, and saw that the outstep and the trees were lined up and the entire gif was cropped to the same area by the OP!!! I was just seeing side by sides last night, and until the gif showed they were turned and lined up.... With the two original LE posts, I thought that the camera must be moving as the angle of the boards were different. But with the trees lined up... it appears that the video is from one spot.

We do have today a person upthread who was stating a public official (of sorts) saying that there are not any trail cams... so I'm sill :duh:

well... kudos to whomever the OP was that did that gif!

:tyou:

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Actually, I'm the one that slapped it together. FWIW, I'm not really convinced either way.

I tend to think that it's a fixed camera somewhere but I think that's the contrarian in me. Most on this site seem to really want to believe that the victim captured the final images that bring the killer to justice. It's a nice thought and all. It's just extremely unlikely.

I'll say again that the two pictures placed in a .gif setting shows this guy walking in what appears to be a one second interval. There is little parallax between the two captures. He indeed looks like he is stumbling. His walking cadence is off, as one can see by the leg movements...looks unbalanced.
The police should canvass all local bars and liquor stores with these pictures.

vliam said:

Actually, I'm the one that slapped it together. FWIW, I'm not really convinced either way.

I tend to think that it's a fixed camera somewhere but I think that's the contrarian in me. Most on this site seem to really want to believe that the victim captured the final images that bring the killer to justice. It's a nice thought and all. It's just extremely unlikely.

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I think it was another individual on the bridge, not Libby.

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Gardenista said:

I've seen them around tree stands & deer trails.

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Hatfield said:

You may have missed the camoflaged ones. People purposely hide them so they dont get ripped off by others.

The whole idea is that game animals and people do not find them.

[video=youtube;IRGy4dDCCBM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRGy4dDCCBM[/video]

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As I said, I have not seen security cameras on trails for the purpose of security. I've seen plenty of trail and hunting cams. Security cameras are monitored cameras placed in an area to protect the public or property and for the purpose of identifying people who do harm. Trail cameras are for capturing wildlife in the area.

I have never been on a hiking trail that had installed security cameras.

So one of the first things you learn not to put a "trail cam" on is a small branch that sways or moves. The obvious distance would be way off in daytime to trigger anyways.

Also if it's from somebody else's phone say a witness or bystander. We have a description released with sketch or a more informative description.

One phone that is fact of being on that bridge, liberty's phone. Keep is simple.

And I'm just wondering since some so strongly believe it's a trail cam for security lol. We can't even identify a suspect in a double homicide from this cam. Do you really think Batman's put his trail cam up out here to catch people stealing rail road spikes lulz.

Also who's risking said life hanging off a bridge 60 some feet above the ground to hide a trail cam at that specific location on the bridge.

A moving trail cam or swaying is just going to eat up space all day long. Capturing pics with nothing in them.


Also press conference: possibly to link the murders to other crime(s)

wsto said:

Kimber "type 1911" pistols. Next time put them in a windbreaker and I might break a sweat 😜

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Welcome wsto. :guitar:

JJ007 said:

So far this profile of a killer is very spot on and I would think it gets even closer as they get someone in cuffs. Great article. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...rs-children-psychology-profiles-child-killers

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Wow, this is a great article.

This stood out to me.

Christine Gregoire an Attorney General from Washington State reports the killers are usually at the initial contact site for legitimate reasons. They either lived in the area or were engaging in some routine. She also reports most child abduction murders are opportunistic. Only in 14 percent of cases was the victim picked out because of some physical characteristic. The initial contact site is within 1/4 mile of the victim’s last known location in 80 percent of cases.

LaborDayRN said:

This is what I was wondering!

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Me too. So frustrating. I picture them re-hashing the whole "don't just post random pictures of people's facebooks who you think looks similar" type of thing....remain vigilant, re-state that we need to re-think if we saw ANYTHING out of the ordinary that day, and MAYBE give us some little bait like where the pic came from. I don't expect much more. Something to keep us interested but not give us much to go on. IMO.

[FONT=&amp]Just a note: authorities leaving out details to the public is not uncommon and is procedural. Hopefully this doesnt distract into any farfetch ideas of the authorities hiding something immorally.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Consider Evelyn Celeste Miller, the 5 year old girl that was raped and murdered by the mother's fiance.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]"Officials ruled her death a homicide, but wouldn’t initially release any information regarding how the child died or the condition of her body when found. The omission of those details proved crucial in helping officials later make an arrest in the case."
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]The big break in that case came when the convicted killer, Casey Frederiksen, told fellow prisoners in jail while serving time for child *advertiser censored* details about the death that had not been made public.
[/FONT]

This part of the above article also is interesting. We had discussed earlier how quickly the victims are murdered.

Heide and colleagues also report on the most complete previous study of sexually motivated child abduction murders. Analysis of 621 cases representing 44 states across the U.S. showed that in 44 percent of the cases the victim was deceased within one hour after they were abducted. Within three hours, 74 percent of victims were dead. Fast action in missing children cases becomes vital because data suggests there is typically a two-hour delay after a child is reported missing.

No it's not said:

Not sure if it has been posted already, but this is the approximate location of the POI on the bridge according to my research. He is traveling in a SE direction:

View of location from NW perspective looking SE:

According to this video:

marker 6:36ff

[video=youtube;edK8DJVW890]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edK8DJVW890[/video]

-Nin

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Awesome work. Really helps me get the scene straight in my mind. Would you be able to put Libby's appx location in this graphic too?

Aaron Wise said:

I'll say again that the two pictures placed in a .gif setting shows this guy walking in what appears to be a one second interval. There is little parallax between the two captures. He indeed looks like he is stumbling. His walking cadence is off, as one can see by the leg movements...looks unbalanced.
The police should canvass all local bars and liquor stores with these pictures.

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I

I still say we have to remember what he's walking on. That youtube video showing how huge the gaps are is downright scary. No one in their right mind would walk "normal". Esp if you're concealing your hands in your pockets or just placing them there because you're chilly. I do agree fliers should be placed everywhere.

Tawny said:

As I said, I have not seen security cameras on trails for the purpose of security. I've seen plenty of trail and hunting cams. Security cameras are monitored cameras placed in an area to protect the public or property and for the purpose of identifying people who do harm. Trail cameras are for capturing wildlife in the area.

I have never been on a hiking trail that had installed security cameras.

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Same here. I've hiked in 3 states, in national, state, and local parks. Never saw a camera on a trail. One park had a surveillance set up with a generator in the parking lot, 24/7, to deter petty criminals from breaking into cars, but it was temporary.