UID Victim: Manorville John Doe, Hispanic male, 5'6", 112 lbs., Namus 2725, found Nov 2000

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I'm skeptical about Tina but its possible. The precision shown on Jesica's dismemberment is very important. What were the remarks on the slicing of the tattoo? I don't know if it's true but supposedly Hammerheads is close to Brewer's childhood home
 
WesternArtist said:
For the 2000 Atlantic City T-Shirt John Doe http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/681umny.html how about William Charles Lafferty? http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3974dmnj.html He's a little older but the right height and weight and missing from New Jersey so the Atlantic City T-Shirt could make sense.
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go with your gut feeling submit it!
 
WesternArtist said:
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How about Augustine John Dellea. There is something about his jaw that appears as though he could have had a previous injury there (although that isn't specifically listed for him). He went missing from California in 1998 and is taller but the weight and age are in range for the 2000 Manorville John Doe. He has previous addresses listed in East Nassau, NY, Eaton, NY, and Easton, NY as well as CA. Could he have made it back to NY (but been down in the city or on LI) and been reported missing in CA? http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dellea_augustine.html
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submit it western artist! you never know good finds,
 
DQN said:
go with your gut feeling submit it!
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Dang! I just went to submit William Lafferty but he has no identifiers (no DNA, Fingerprints or Dentals) :(

I did submit Carlos Cedeno http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4228dmnj.html for the UID found in the trunk of a car in a junkyard in Brooklyn in '98 https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/6073. The clothing for this case made me think it could be related: (no pants, Mickey Mouse logo on shirt) white sleeveless undershirt, size medium; navy/black "Perry Ellis" t-shirt; blue plaid long sleeved men's button down collar dress shirt with Mickey Mouse embroidered on left front pocket; red men's briefs, size 34

According to Doe Network Carlos' NamUs file is marked as "restricted" which usually means they have been located. They're looking into it more though.
 
Hammerheads is close to Brewers childhood home but if you are from Long Island you would think of it differently. Hammerheads wasn't really a local place and it was located on a major highway which meant it brought people from all over Long Island and even NYC, it's just the way the demographics of the island work. The remarks about the slicing of the tattoo were indifferent, and the person just remarked that the tattoo was sliced to hide the identity. Remember, i came across that blog in 2003 long before there was any sensation to this story or a serial killer theory was even formed.
 
u01mpk said:
Hammerheads is close to Brewers childhood home but if you are from Long Island you would think of it differently. Hammerheads wasn't really a local place and it was located on a major highway which meant it brought people from all over Long Island and even NYC, it's just the way the demographics of the island work. The remarks about the slicing of the tattoo were indifferent, and the person just remarked that the tattoo was sliced to hide the identity. Remember, i came across that blog in 2003 long before there was any sensation to this story or a serial killer theory was even formed.
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Ok I was told it's around the corner from JB's home. I can't believe Tina could be in a bar with the killer and no saw him? Doesn't make sense. The bartender would have seen the guy. What reason do you think they went to Hammerheads?

So the blog was from before JT was identified right. Because she wasn't ID'd until atleast 2004 I believe. Did comment on anything other than the precision and the tattoo? I can't believe SCPD was able to deny deny deny away the existence of "a SK roaming the south shore" to use Ftzpatrick's exact phrase. How can it be more obvious when two women are dumped on the same desolate little road with their heads and hands chopped off. The real key is the men who dumped either very very close in time (most likely at the same time IMO) as the two women. Where did they come from, who are they, why were they dumped with the girls, and how many more of them are there in those woods?
 
Why do i think they went to Hammerheads? As I said, it was not a local type bar. It was a major venue which brought in big acts of the time like Blue Oyster cult, KISS, Twisted Sister, etc. and it was on a major highway, it was definitely a popular place. I think i had read that Tina Foglia had actually hitch hiked that night to get there which indicates her killer didn't bring her there.

It should be glaringly obvious that when you have two women missing their heads and mutilated dumped in a wooded desolate area that something more sinister is going on to the police, however SCPD has a habit of downplaying everything. They don't like ringing the alarm and shattering the image that suffolk county is less than a nice place to live, they certainly aren't going to hit the panic button and announce a serial killer after finding only two bodies.

Yes, the blog about JT was long before she was identified.
 
u01mpk said:
Why do i think they went to Hammerheads? As I said, it was not a local type bar. It was a major venue which brought in big acts of the time like Blue Oyster cult, KISS, Twisted Sister, etc. and it was on a major highway, it was definitely a popular place. I think i had read that Tina Foglia had actually hitch hiked that night to get there which indicates her killer didn't bring her there.

It should be glaringly obvious that when you have two women missing their heads and mutilated dumped in a wooded desolate area that something more sinister is going on to the police, however SCPD has a habit of downplaying everything. They don't like ringing the alarm and shattering the image that suffolk county is less than a nice place to live, they certainly aren't going to hit the panic button and announce a serial killer after finding only two bodies.

Yes, the blog about JT was long before she was identified.
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2 no, but by 2003 they had found 3 in Manorville, as well as a skull in Moriches (torso found in Rockaway Beach). But they'd also found Peaches, Jessica Taylor and Jane Doe were all "wrapped in plastic". And they'd also found FI legs
 
You are absolutely right, but nobody was putting the pieces together back the and the Fire Island legs were long off the radar, which brings me to another point. The area where the legs were found on Fire Island; Davis Park is not an area accessible by car to the average person. The only people who are permitted to use a vehicle there are police and fire personnel, State parks workers and utilities crew (PSEG which was lilco at the time) I've always had a strong hunch that this was some type of state worker (maintenance) etc . There has to be some reason bodies are always dumped on state land, and in Manorville I believe that area is also state access.
 
u01mpk said:
You are absolutely right, but nobody was putting the pieces together back the and the Fire Island legs were long off the radar, which brings me to another point. The area where the legs were found on Fire Island; Davis Park is not an area accessible by car to the average person. The only people who are permitted to use a vehicle there are police and fire personnel, State parks workers and utilities crew (PSEG which was lilco at the time) I've always had a strong hunch that this was some type of state worker (maintenance) etc . There has to be some reason bodies are always dumped on state land, and in Manorville I believe that area is also state access.
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I agree with you about the utility worker theory. As you probably know, Jane Doe 2000 was found by a Lilco right of way in Manorville. There was a poser here years ago who was from Davis Park theorized that the FI Legs drifted from brush out to FI during a storm.
 
That's what always confused me, Davis park is part of fire island and is close to Gilgo in distance but in reality it's a different continent of land, one would have to cross the Robert Moses bridge from Fire island and cross over the great South Bay to reach the continent of land that Davis park is compared to ocean parkway. That theory of them washing up would be true if it was on the bay side of Davis park but it's still a distance .
 
u01mpk said:
You are absolutely right, but nobody was putting the pieces together back the and the Fire Island legs were long off the radar, which brings me to another point. The area where the legs were found on Fire Island; Davis Park is not an area accessible by car to the average person. The only people who are permitted to use a vehicle there are police and fire personnel, State parks workers and utilities crew (PSEG which was lilco at the time) I've always had a strong hunch that this was some type of state worker (maintenance) etc . There has to be some reason bodies are always dumped on state land, and in Manorville I believe that area is also state access.
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Exactly the only ones that could get away with it,no one would question the vehicles.
 
u01mpk said:
You are absolutely right, but nobody was putting the pieces together back the and the Fire Island legs were long off the radar, which brings me to another point. The area where the legs were found on Fire Island; Davis Park is not an area accessible by car to the average person. The only people who are permitted to use a vehicle there are police and fire personnel, State parks workers and utilities crew (PSEG which was lilco at the time) I've always had a strong hunch that this was some type of state worker (maintenance) etc . There has to be some reason bodies are always dumped on state land, and in Manorville I believe that area is also state access.
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I have tossed the idea of it being a NYS Department of Conservation (DEC) worker a few times. I haven't really followed up or investigated it though. But the little I have done, it does seem they have reason to be in all areas. Fire Island is key to this mystery IMO.
 
SageRhiannon said:
I have tossed the idea of it being a NYS Department of Conservation (DEC) worker a few times. I haven't really followed up or investigated it though. But the little I have done, it does seem they have reason to be in all areas. Fire Island is key to this mystery IMO.
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Years ago someone posted that theory and i thought it was silly conspiracy however I think differently. After driving down Ocean parkway myself now a few times and seeing the area first hand it gives you a different perspective. You see NYS trucks everywhere maintaining the side of the road etc and no one would even think to question them parked on the side of the road day or night or look twice if they were unloading something from the back of a truck. Also, right outside Tobay beach there is a private driveway that leads to a NYS maintenance workers area (Clearly visible from Google earth) It contains some old buildings and many paths which lead to the bird sanctuary. I think it's safe to assume this area which seems to contain all kinds of grounds maintenance vehicles and material probaly has burlap somewhere. If i am correct, peaches remains were found not too far from here including other remains near the sanctuary. I wonder if the police even searched the state maintenance property?
 
u01mpk said:
That's what always confused me, Davis park is part of fire island and is close to Gilgo in distance but in reality it's a different continent of land, one would have to cross the Robert Moses bridge from Fire island and cross over the great South Bay to reach the continent of land that Davis park is compared to ocean parkway. That theory of them washing up would be true if it was on the bay side of Davis park but it's still a distance .
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I'm not quite following you here, did you intend to mention Davis Park thrice? Anywho welcome and thanks for sharing your thoughts. According to the only article I've seen that a poster was kind enough to post it says the legs were found on the bay side about a mile west of Davis Park. That article is in her thread. That's about 12 miles from the RMC bridge and about 3.5 strait across from the north shore of the bay. I'm thinking someone with knowledge of how the tides work there combined with the estimated time the remains had been dismembered (not that long) it looks like they could come up with a good guess as to where they were dumped from.

Maybe these last few pages can get moved to hodgepodge or something. Some good discussion but slightly off topic. Not that I'm trying to police the thread or anything. :)

This would be the approximate area the legs washed up according to that article.
https://goo.gl/maps/qe2qkhye9CD2
 
u01mpk said:
Years ago someone posted that theory and i thought it was silly conspiracy however I think differently. After driving down Ocean parkway myself now a few times and seeing the area first hand it gives you a different perspective. You see NYS trucks everywhere maintaining the side of the road etc and no one would even think to question them parked on the side of the road day or night or look twice if they were unloading something from the back of a truck. Also, right outside Tobay beach there is a private driveway that leads to a NYS maintenance workers area (Clearly visible from Google earth) It contains some old buildings and many paths which lead to the bird sanctuary. I think it's safe to assume this area which seems to contain all kinds of grounds maintenance vehicles and material probaly has burlap somewhere. If i am correct, peaches remains were found not too far from here including other remains near the sanctuary. I wonder if the police even searched the state maintenance property?
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There are 2 separate entities of New York State workers - the New York State park workers who maintain state areas & the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation who are in control of fishing & hunting and wildlife and environmental conservation - whether they work together or not (i.e. share facilities, etc.) , I have no idea. I do think both could be good suspects as they could probably have access to many areas without appearing suspicious.
 
Good morning, I'm thrilled to be part of this, I have been trying to follow with the LISK case for sometime now, but still a newby at heart. I have a question and I'm not sure if this has ever been asked. They say that an officer was doing a "routine training exercise" with the dog. If this is "routine" how many times per week or month are the routines performed? And who were the officers that did the routine training?
 
sd3 said:
Good morning, I'm thrilled to be part of this, I have been trying to follow with the LISK case for sometime now, but still a newby at heart. I have a question and I'm not sure if this has ever been asked. They say that an officer was doing a "routine training exercise" with the dog. If this is "routine" how many times per week or month are the routines performed? And who were the officers that did the routine training?
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:Welcome1:That is an interesting question. I have seen that discussed on here but couldn't find it at the moment. I do not recall ever seeing conclusive info about how frequently that 'routine' training happens but there has been some suspicion about that. If you dig through the older threads I'm sure you'll eventually stumble upon it, and in the search see plenty of other interesting things!
 
WesternArtist said:
:Welcome1:That is an interesting question. I have seen that discussed on here but couldn't find it at the moment. I do not recall ever seeing conclusive info about how frequently that 'routine' training happens but there has been some suspicion about that. If you dig through the older threads I'm sure you'll eventually stumble upon it, and in the search see plenty of other interesting things!
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The Police Officer that discovered the initial body was John Malia who was searching specifically for Shannan. His dog,Blue was raised by him from a puppy. From the book "Lost Girls" by Robert Kolker. "While the accepted wisdom is that most police matters are resolved within forty-eight hours,Malia looked at Shannan's disappearance in a different way. He assumed the girl was dead. Logic suggested it would be only a matter of time before someone found her. And Blue needed on the job training. Page 193
 
ehere is something I wonder about the 2012 male who was found wrapped in a bed sheet. The sheet is described as "worn". So does this mean a used bed sheet or just worn from sitting out in the woods for years inside the garbage bag? The victim was strangled I believe, and the bed sheet, along with the underwear and socks, indicates to me the victim was strangled during a sexual interaction taking place on a bed. The killer takes the sheet and wraps it around the body, then duct tapes it up in a garbage bag. If this is the case, wouldn't the SK leave some evidence on the sheet, body fluid, fibers, hairs, etc? Now the sheet was in the woods for years so that stuff is probably all gone. But if it was there, doesn't that indicate the killer isn't obsessively cautious about leaving no evidence? The guy who found it called it "bush league". Is the SK conscious about not leaving trace evidence or do you think LE has some on the victims found quickly after dumping?
 
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