GUILTY MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #8 *Arrest*

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Rocky1 said:
No case is prosecuted unless the prosecution believes they have a strong case. If the D.A. feels there is not enough evidence to convict, there will be no trial.
This is however, far from a "clear case." It is the job of the Defense Lawyer to raise doubt.
Although this guy has already been found guilty in the court of public opinion, he has the right to a fair trial, guilty, or not.
I can raise doubt with all the above statements, and if the Defense Lawyer is doing his job, he will too. If he is charged with Felony Murder, (First degree) the lawyer may get the conviction reduced to Manslaughter. The defendant has pleaded not guilty to the current charges. He hasn't been charged with murder as of yet. This example is based only on what we know so far, and how an Attorney may handle this. Not facts, just an example.
1) He is waiting down the road to meet with Vanessa, because she agreed to meet him. His hood is up because while he is waiting, he decided to check his oil, and while doing so, his phone rang. If phone records indicate no call was made, that's because he was trying to call someone, but didn't enter the entire number, not knowing this yet when the witness drove by, but was waiting for the phone to ring with it up against his ear.
2)Vanessa showed up and consented to sex in the woods. In the moment of Erotic Asphyxiation, things got out of hand, and the structure of her neck was damaged, causing death.
3)The defendant then paniced, and set her on fire, because he was afraid. In doing so, he slipped and fell, breaking her nose.

I am no way suggesting this happened. This is how generally speaking a Defense Lawyer may handle this.
That explains the evidence of him being there, his phone records showing his phone there,why his hood was up, and his DNA under her fingernails.
The doubt has been raised. Now it's up to the Prosecution to prove this to be false. If the Prosecution can't, he is convicted for Involuntary Manslaughter, ( no past criminal history..10-16 months) and Desecrating a Human Corpes (no more than 7 years)
If convicted for the above, this guy could walk in 5 years.
There are only two people that know, what really happened. One is dead, and we are not sure yet how much the other is talking, if he is at all. With the exception of motive, the Prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Another factor will be the report from the M.E. stating cause of death. Was it strangulation, or was she still alive when she was burned?
Another factor will be any of her blood drops that may have been found leading into the woods along the cart path. That may suggest she was punched in the face before being dragged in the woods.
We haven't seen any evidence as of yet. Only MSM reports, and some of those reports have been false.
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So your defense would be consenual rape that turned into the victim having a broken nose, murdered and set on fire?

And this would supposedly help get a not guilty verdict or hung jury?


Hmmm
 
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/04/18/vanessa-marcotte-princeton-murder-suspect-angelo-ortiz/

This one says he made creepy remarks about young girls and watched women who walked by but I wonder what remarks he made about young women and if it was at his home like it sounds like then was he making them to his brother?

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2017/04/worcester_man_pleads_not_guilty_to_princeton_jogger_charges

And here the attorney says his client doesn't speak any English. But how could he get any job at fed ex if he didn't? It's clear by the things neighbors and the lady at the post office say that he must have spoke some
 
Rocky1 said:
There are laws the Jury has to follow, and there are laws the Judge has to follow as well.
How wealthy a town may be will not be a deciding factor in the outcome of this trial.
Click to expand...

If you don't think that politics plays a role in both the justice system and in the minds of the jury, you're living in a different America than I am.
 
DexterMorgan said:
So your defense would be consenual rape that turned into the victim having a broken nose, murdered and set on fire?

And this would supposedly help get a not guilty verdict or hung jury?


Hmmm
Click to expand...

Yea, that's what I got out of that, too. Rocky, In order to create doubt, any alternative scenario to murder would have to seem plausible to resonate with a jury. I just don't see it happening. Have to disagree.

Sure- an attorney can say whatever they want to TRY to raise doubt. But whether those attempts are successful is a different thing entirely.

Given the facts of this case which have been made public at this time, I have zero doubt that this guy is a murderer. None.
 
DexterMorgan said:
So your defense would be consenual rape that turned into the victim having a broken nose, murdered and set on fire?

And this would supposedly help get a not guilty verdict or hung jury?


Hmmm
Click to expand...
Where in my post did I say a not guilty verdict, or a hung jury?
What I said was A defense Lawyer may try to raise doubt to get the verdict reduced to Manslaughter.
What is Consensual rape"? I haven't heard that term before?
 
ForensicMass said:
Yea, that's what I got out of that, too. Rocky, In order to create doubt, any alternative scenario to murder would have to seem plausible to resonate with a jury. I just don't see it happening. Have to disagree.

Sure- an attorney can say whatever they want to TRY to raise doubt. But whether those attempts are successful is a different thing entirely.

Given the facts of this case which have been made public at this time, I have zero doubt that this guy is a murderer. None.
Click to expand...
Where is the alternative to murder in my post, or any doubt this guy is a murderer?
What I said was he may TRY to get this charged reduced from First Degree murder to Second Degree murder.
You are right, whether the Attorney is successful in raising doubt remains to be seen.
 
ForensicMass said:
If you don't think that politics plays a role in both the justice system and in the minds of the jury, you're living in a different America than I am.
Click to expand...
This trial will not take place in Princeton, and I do believe a jury member from Princeton would not be picked by a Defense Lawyer.
Can you give me an example how politics would play a role here because Princeton in your eyes is a wealthy town?
 
He's going to be convicted of first degree murder. Of that I have no doubt whatsoever.
 
Rocky1 said:
Where is the alternative to murder in my post, or any doubt this guy is a murderer?
What I said was he may TRY to get this charged reduced from First Degree murder to Second Degree murder.
You are right, whether the Attorney is successful in raising doubt remains to be seen.
Click to expand...
Correction.
In my example I did use the phrase "Involuntary Manslaughter, and not Second Degree Murder.
Although both are Homicides, Manslaughter is technically not considered murder.
 
I would think it would be pretty easy to confirm whether or not he speaks English. In case I missed it has anyone come forward to say that he does speak enough English to understand it?
 
Rocky1 said:
This trial will not take place in Princeton, and I do believe a jury member from Princeton would not be picked by a Defense Lawyer.
Can you give me an example how politics would play a role here because Princeton in your eyes is a wealthy town?
Click to expand...

I live 2 hours away from Princeton and most people in my town have at least heard about this case. Due to her employment at google and work in New York this was actually national news.

When you live in a city, There is sort of an acceptance that crime happens. Even this kind of terrible crime. But that is not true of people who live in areas generally devoid of crime. People living in those areas CAN RELATE to Princeton, even if thy don't live there. And there is an added element of anger and outrage that such a crime could occur In THIS KIND of community. It's completely different than if this had occurred in Chicago. It shouldn't be any different. But it is. Just look at disparity of sentencing of white collar thieves who steal millions versus some poor, not-well-connected sap that stole $40 from a convenience store. Sadly it is NOT all about the crime and perception can play a major role. In this case I believe perception will, however, play in favor of the prosecution and this guy will get maximum sentence.
 
National Media kept calling her a "Google Executive." I would shake my head at their inaccuracy. She was was in a sales and support role for the HC (Healthcare) group, working with the Accounts. The title is "Account Executive" which is a fancy title for sales and support of defined accounts.
 
ForensicMass said:
Yea, that's what I got out of that, too. Rocky, In order to create doubt, any alternative scenario to murder would have to seem plausible to resonate with a jury. I just don't see it happening. Have to disagree.

Sure- an attorney can say whatever they want to TRY to raise doubt. But whether those attempts are successful is a different thing entirely.

Given the facts of this case which have been made public at this time, I have zero doubt that this guy is a murderer. None.
Click to expand...

So do you think he's done it before?


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Cem75 said:
So do you think he's done it before?


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Click to expand...

I certainly think that's a distinct possibility and possibly his motivation for leaving Puerto Rico. I don't have any evidence for that just seems the circumstances could support that idea. I agree with the general consensus and the statistics that typically someone w typically someone who commits this kind of crime has likely acted on these disturbing desires before age 31. On the other hand, as devils advocate, One might argue that his recent move to the United States potentially even by himself, might have allowed him the perfect opportunity to commit a crime he's always fantasized about. In a place where he felt anonymous
 
I think he has a history given how brazen it was.

Separately has there been any updates about the pond search? I am very curious to learn what they were looking for.


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Yup, I think he's done this before and also agree it might be reason he left PR.

Regarding my earlier comments - I meant to say that I think it's his brother he talked to on bluetooth those times the postal worker was referring to, when she saw him. Those times he was saying nasty things about her. Brother may be also be doing same job, so they talk. Brother reason he got job fast. I am not sure they were talking at all around the time of the crime though. Also, agree that brother would cover for him if he saw him come back with injuries, whether or not he was involved. Regarding the northborough/westborough incident, I do suspect brother involved and used brother's car, maybe AO didnt have own car yet, too new to USA at time.

I hope they move the trial to my county. They couldn't pull that DNA degraded and therefore resulted in a match somehow BS on me. I work in biochemistry, and I would laugh so hard.
 
ForensicMass said:
I certainly think that's a distinct possibility and possibly his motivation for leaving Puerto Rico. I don't have any evidence for that just seems the circumstances could support that idea. I agree with the general consensus and the statistics that typically someone w typically someone who commits this kind of crime has likely acted on these disturbing desires before age 31. On the other hand, as devils advocate, One might argue that his recent move to the United States potentially even by himself, might have allowed him the perfect opportunity to commit a crime he's always fantasized about. In a place where he felt anonymous
Click to expand...
All good points! I think he has committed rape or sexual assault before. He was probably the guy who had some uncomfortable, questionable sexual encounters with women previously and then branched out to stranger assault. I read once that rapists average 7 victims before their first arrest. Ugh.
 
mocity said:
I would think it would be pretty easy to confirm whether or not he speaks English. In case I missed it has anyone come forward to say that he does speak enough English to understand it?
Click to expand...
Unless something has changed, the only thing thing I saw was,The D.A said he spoke "some" English.
 
ForensicMass said:
I live 2 hours away from Princeton and most people in my town have at least heard about this case. Due to her employment at google and work in New York this was actually national news.

When you live in a city, There is sort of an acceptance that crime happens. Even this kind of terrible crime. But that is not true of people who live in areas generally devoid of crime. People living in those areas CAN RELATE to Princeton, even if thy don't live there. And there is an added element of anger and outrage that such a crime could occur In THIS KIND of community. It's completely different than if this had occurred in Chicago. It shouldn't be any different. But it is. Just look at disparity of sentencing of white collar thieves who steal millions versus some poor, not-well-connected sap that stole $40 from a convenience store. Sadly it is NOT all about the crime and perception can play a major role. In this case I believe perception will, however, play in favor of the prosecution and this guy will get maximum sentence.
Click to expand...
True, It was national news.
Just like.
1) OJ Simpson.
2) Robert Blake.
3) Casey Anthony.
4) Arron Hernandez.(second trial)
5) Amanda Knox
Why do you think they were all acquitted? Do you think maybe the Defense Lawyer raised reasonable doubt?
Why do you think that Roger Desilet (Dentist from Princeton that was charged with murdering his wife) was acquitted? That murder happened in the same town. Why didn't "politics" play a role in that case? Do you think his Defense Lawyer raised reasonable doubt?
I don't expect the Defense Attorney to pick jurors from some small town, but rather the city.
I am not saying that this guy won't be found guilty of Felony Murder, nor am I saying he doesn't deserve that by any means. What I am saying is if you think this Defense Attorney is going to stand up in court on the first day and say "yes your honer he did it all just as the prosecution says," then in your words.. "we are living in two Americas."
 
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