Was Burke Involved # 5

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Filled with feces as many BDIs claim? That's about as likely as a magical monkey flying out of my butt and handing me winning lottery numbers.


icedtea4me,
Stranger things have happened in this case, Karr, etc. Whoever thought they would see Burke Ramsey interviewed on Dr Phil, even if it was fixed?

BR's libel case might backfire if CBS want a discovery phase to do some evidence production, if they win my money is on CBS broadcasting all the original episodes with updates?

.
 
icedtea4me,
A bloodstain on the White Gap Top and the Pink Barbie Nightgown should match on both for location with an abrasion on JonBenet?

Show this and it could demonstrate that White Gap Top arrived after the Pink Barbie Nightgown?

.


The stain on the white Gap shirt is addressed in the AR:

“There are no defects noted in the shirt but the upper anterior right sleeve contains a dried brown-tan stain measuring 2.5 x 1.5 inches consistent with mucous from the nose or mouth.”
 
icedtea4me,
A bloodstain on the White Gap Top and the Pink Barbie Nightgown should match on both for location with an abrasion on JonBenet? Show this and it could demonstrate that White Gap Top arrived after the Pink Barbie Nightgown?

If she was wearing the Barbie nightgown when the abrasions occurred, then I believe it would be possible for the bloodstains to be in nearly the same location on each garment. If she was wearing the white top, then the blood could have seeped through the white top onto the Barbie nightgown and white blanket.
 
She had that on when she died?!


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Aydrianna523,
She sure did. Burke Ramsey's long johns. There are people out there who believe Patsy's spiel about her dressing JonBenet in Burke's long johns, despite the millionaire's daughter owning a vast wardrobe of clothing.

Me, the minute I saw the long johns it was game over the case was BDI, along with the size-12's they were a massive Red Flag.

That's when I realized Patsy was covering for Burke Ramsey, not herself or John, and that's where the PDI theorists understandably go wrong: they mix the staging and PR's behaviour up to arrive at PDI. Some even require telepathic communication via JR!

The only other alternative is the parents staged the wine-cellar crime-scene so to deliberately implicate BR, e.g. his penknife, his footprint, his long johns, those size-12's, his dna on the nightgown?
 
Aydrianna523,
She sure did. Burke Ramsey's long johns. There are people out there who believe Patsy's spiel about her dressing JonBenet in Burke's long johns, despite the millionaire's daughter owning a vast wardrobe of clothing.

Me, the minute I saw the long johns it was game over the case was BDI, along with the size-12's they were a massive Red Flag.

That's when I realized Patsy was covering for Burke Ramsey, not herself or John, and that's where the PDI theorists understandably go wrong: they mix the staging and PR's behaviour up to arrive at PDI. Some even require telepathic communication via JR!

The only other alternative is the parents staged the wine-cellar crime-scene so to deliberately implicate BR, e.g. his penknife, his footprint, his long johns, those size-12's, his dna on the nightgown?

I could see a t shirt and underwear for a little girl to sleep in if she's a bed wetter or just very tired, but wearing her brother's long johns? That seems way off to me! Maybe their big house was cold and they needed long johns, but that's not an expensive item. They could afford tons of those.
and
A little girl IS NOT going to be willing to wear her brothers! I'm interested in learning more so I'm workin my way through this shorter thread. I have somewhat followed the case and I have seen the CBS show. I am in the BDI group. IMOO


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Just to set the record straight, when "taxi" was mentioned it is in airport lingo, not taxi/Uber/cab lingo. They were driving themselves to the airport.

"TT: You guys were going to taxi to fly out by 7:00 a.m."

And, one more thing, PR stated that for private flights, she packed in trash bags, and those bags of clothes were by the door. As I recall, the luggage she was packing in Jr's room was for the Big Red boat cruise after they returned from xmas.

I still think everything out of the mouth of a Ramsey was/is a lie, I just want the known facts to be facts here.

Thanks. I also got confused on the taxi thing. Speed reading causes you to mess up sometimes on the details. And you gotta speed read on WS or you ll get mega behind.


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You sure about that?



John seems to be saying something and Thomas is confirming by repeating it. Not sure why Thomas would feel the need to use pilot lingo when he wasn't a pilot? In fact I've never heard anybody say that when asking somebody what time they were going to fly at. And John has already said "takeoff at 7", wouldn't taxiing be earlier than that?

Oh. Playing catch up here on the taxi topic.


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THE PERSON WITH THE GREATEST MOTIVE.
Drum roll...I'm going with BR. There is going to be trouble if you have a star in your midst. I know someone who wisely tries to keeps their two kids both as 'stars'. (Also an older boy/younger daughter scenario). If one is in some kind of class, say dance, the other one is scheduled for a sport or piano. Equal time with each is attempted.
Jealousy is my suspected motive. JMO


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THE PERSON WITH THE GREATEST MOTIVE.
Drum roll...I'm going with BR. There is going to be trouble if you have a star in your midst. I know someone who wisely tries to keeps their two kids both as 'stars'. (Also an older boy/younger daughter scenario). If one is in some kind of class, say dance, the other one is scheduled for a sport or piano. Equal time with each is attempted.
Jealousy is my suspected motive. JMO.

BBM mine. Ditto.
 
You're the only one who has said Patsy could communicate telepathically with John.


icedtea4me,
Nope, many PDI theorists have Patsy writing the RN, staging the wine-cellar then telling JR JonBenet is missing, etc.

PDI theories with this schema then have JR acting in concert with PR, i.e. telling stories like the broken window, samsonite suitcase, etc.

Eventually the suspense becomes too much for JR and he confides to an investigator It's an inside job, must have been the RN that did it, Don't Grow a Brain John.

.
 
I can provide proof that you're the only one who has said "Patsy could communicate telepathically with John". Can you do the same for anyone else?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...2945095&highlight=telepathically#post12945095

post #1168

icedtea4me,
I just did in my last post where I described a subclass of PDI theorists who assume JR is a mind reader, e.g. Patsy's!

Some JDI theories do it in reverse, and have special cases for events like where Patsy goes ahead and dials 911, breaking with JR's expectations, otherwise Patsy reads JR's mind and falls in line so to accommodate his JDI.

.
 
Aydrianna523,
The only other alternative is the parents staged the wine-cellar crime-scene so to deliberately implicate BR, e.g. his penknife, his footprint, his long johns, those size-12's, his dna on the nightgown?

Oo. ^^^ this made me nauseous.

But, if PR and or JR were that evil, and clever with forensics, they would have yanked some of BR's hair from his head and left it on the blanket. So, no.
 
Eventually the suspense becomes too much for JR and he confides to an investigator It's an inside job, must have been the RN that did it, Don't Grow a Brain John.

.

That dang RN!!

16 Q. When you were looking at the ransom

17 note, was there anything in the language of the

18 ransom note that struck you as peculiar?

19 A. The whole thing was peculiar. We

20 were addressed as "Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey," and then

21 they switched to "John" personally.


The practice note begins with:

"Mr. and Mrs...."

The ransom note begins Mr. Ramsey, not Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey

Soooo how would JR know this ;)

JR also said JB would not take pineapple from a stranger.

And then there's this. Pretty well rehearsed IMO

[video=youtube;6s1Dyl8QxXQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s1Dyl8QxXQ[/video]
 
Aydrianna523,
She sure did. Burke Ramsey's long johns. There are people out there who believe Patsy's spiel about her dressing JonBenet in Burke's long johns, despite the millionaire's daughter owning a vast wardrobe of clothing.

Me, the minute I saw the long johns it was game over the case was BDI, along with the size-12's they were a massive Red Flag.

That's when I realized Patsy was covering for Burke Ramsey, not herself or John, and that's where the PDI theorists understandably go wrong: they mix the staging and PR's behaviour up to arrive at PDI. Some even require telepathic communication via JR!

The only other alternative is the parents staged the wine-cellar crime-scene so to deliberately implicate BR, e.g. his penknife, his footprint, his long johns, those size-12's, his dna on the nightgown?
Woo woo up
Where is there proof that these long johns were burkes??
All I have been privy to is JBR was wearing male long johnsthat were too big for her little body.
This does not mean what is overly implied as fact. That theywere burkes. Specifically off burkes back then and there.
Patsy admitted to putting the long johns on her for bed.
This is not an impossibility as uk guy would like to dismissbut cant.
JBR had a bed wetting problem. Putting thick bottoms on hermakes perfect sense to me. Maybe just maybe she bought male long johns for JBRbecause they have extra padding in her wet spot. Whoknows? Nobody. Yes theycould be burkes. But they may not be. Hasn’t been proven by law enforcement.
there is far moreinnocence to that night and normality than most conspiritists around here wantto believe.
 
The mucous stain on her shirt sleeve was non-hemorrhagic (no blood).
Just a few comments so everyone understands what the AR tells us and what it represents. At the time his observations are recorded, he is telling what he sees without the benefit of test results. That’s why he says she has a “yellow metal band” on her finger instead of saying it was a gold ring.

Dr. Meyer didn’t state that the stain on her shirt was non-hemorrhagic. That connection might be made if we accept his association with the dried mucous material noted on her right cheek -- which he did state appeared not to be hemorrhagic. When he first viewed her body with the shirt on, he probably made that assumption because of the location of the stain in relation to her cheek when her head was turned to the right. That’s an easy assumption to make; but the problem is that she also had bruised abrasion on her right shoulder underneath the shirt which he hadn’t found yet since he made those notations before it had been removed. So there is also a possibility that the stain showing on the outside of her shirt was from the abrasion underneath. That’s a possibility, but I still think the stain was indeed from her nose because he describes it as being on the front of her sleeve (no pictures of it, so we don’t know exactly where it was located).

Here is each of Meyer’s pertinent statements:

  • There are no defects noted in the shirt but the upper anterior right sleeve contains a dried brown-tan stain measuring 2.5x1.5 inches, consistent with mucous (sic) from the nose or mouth.
  • The external auditory canals are patent and free of blood.
  • The nostrils are both patent and contain a small amount of tan mucous material.
  • On the right cheek is a pattern of dried saliva and mucous material which does not appear to be hemorrhagic.
  • EVIDENCE: Items turned over to the Boulder Police Department as evidence include: ...swabs from right and left thighs and right cheek...


What I would point out is that he doesn’t mention the color of the “pattern of dried saliva and mucous material” on her cheek -- only that it “does not appear to be hemorrhagic”. We’ve only seen the picture of that dried fluid on her cheek. To me, it looks like it might be tinged with blood, but that could be because the dried mucus is clear and the right side of her face has hypostatic lividity.

Also noteworthy is that he documents that the nostrils are not injured yet “contain a small amount of tan mucous material.” So if the dried fluid on her cheek came from her nostrils, why does he say it “does not appear to be hemorrhagic?” Perhaps he was unable to visually differentiate between the color of the dried fluid and the color of her skin -- whereas the color of the stain was very prominent in contrast on her white shirt. Fortunately he did take a sample of the dried fluid and submit it for testing (as noted in the AR and quoted above). We just don’t know the results of that testing.

Usually, any fluid that is excreted from the victim of TBI through either the nostrils or the ears is because of a breakdown of either the blood-brain barrier or the blood-CSF barrier (or both). Where it leaks tells a doctor the location of the breakdown. The color tells him which barrier(s) is(are) broken. CSF (cerebrospinal fluid) is completely clear. Any red tint to it means there is blood in it. A person who suffers a TBI (whether or not they survive) doesn’t just get a runny nose like from a cold or allergies. It is a condition called CSF Rhinorrhea and it is very serious. From Medscape (link at bottom):

CSF rhinorrhea is a rare but potentially devastating condition that can lead to significant morbidity and mortality for the patient. Disruption of the barriers between the sinonasal cavity and the anterior and middle cranial fossae is the underlying factor leading to the discharge of CSF into the nasal cavity.



This is one of the reasons those with medical expertise have said that even if JonBenet had not been strangled, her chance of survival from the head blow alone was very unlikely.

One more thing worth noting:
It is not in the AR, but someone (one of the investigators?) has said that the tape over her mouth had been placed there over this fluid. If that is true (I can’t see it in the photo -- maybe someone else can), does it not point out the absolute fact that the tape was not actually placed there to keep her quiet? Anyone should understand that she was unconscious after the head blow.


:findinglink:

Links for further reading:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/861126-overview
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choroid_plexus#Function
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood–brain_barrier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebrospinal_fluid
http://care.american-rhinologic.org/csf_leaks
http://writingexplained.org/mucus-vs-mucous-difference
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon124.htm
 
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