OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #29

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RAISINISBACK said:
BBM

It's a she... and thank you. I was trying to illustrate how little has been said about this horrendous crime. It seems that even the people in Pike county which are the closest to the scene doesn't know anything about what happened. The White House and Trump need DeWine and Reader running their administration given the amount of leaks in this case.
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Nice to meet you SHE lol... I understood your post. Saying that the retractions would eventually lead to no murders and the R's lying on a beach somewhere... that is how the Media seem to lead to now... Our local college here have changed textbooks on History so they are politically correct, but the facts are changed so drastically that the students are learning "facts" that are not correct and therefore HISTORY IS CHANGED. I see this happening in this case. It won't be solved because the facts have been changed. So sad for this Country...and I am afraid my Post will be changed.
 
RAISINISBACK said:
BBM

The silence about this case is uncanny to say the least. It's like people are terrified to talk, including LE and EMS personal. If people in that county are truly too terrified to talk about this crime a year later they must be leading a miserable life right now. I am beginning to believe Betty P's Boss Hogg theory of someone so powerful being involved in the crime that everyone is afraid to open their mouth.

Especially with Sheriff Reader threatening them with gang retaliation if they say anything.


I have never bought into LE being involved in this crime, but Readers announcement about this weekend is starting to make me look at him.

I do believe the W's and J & AM are involved, but who else???
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JMO, non-criminal private citizens who don't have much power probably don't know who to trust if they talk to LE. Perhaps word has leaked out in the past when people snitch and retribution comes.

As for EMT's or anyone whose job is funded with any kind of public money, they were probably warned early on that any leak will result in the loss of a job and future career. Once DeWine decided to take a high profile on this case, I'm sure the AG's offfice "laid down the law" about leaking case info. and passed it down the chain of command. That's how their whole statehouse political machine rolls. It's very much a top down, authoritarian, hard-a$$ed organization. Go against them, talk to the news media or make them look bad and they will make you and your family pay, forever. Yeah, kind of like a political mafia, when you think about it.
 
Betty P said:
Sorry, I can't open the link. Maybe it's my computer. It doesn't bother me if she said something different in another interview. Had I experienced something like that, I might not recall all the details right away either.

What's the alternative if she's lying? Obviously JM was there, LE saw him, he flagged them down. His son was with him. The alternative is that he and his son were sitting there all early morning hanging out for a couple of hours after killing DR and her family? :confused:

I will say, if it was me and my early twenties son standing at the door, seeing my sister dead, knowing everyone at two houses up the road are dead and there's an infant crying here with no response from the mother and I hear the sirens from LE coming down the road, I would have backed out, too. I wouldn't have wanted my kid to see that and live with it the rest of his life. No way. If I didn't think LE were coming, I would have made him stay outside of the house while I went in. I would not want my kid to see that, regardless of whether he was an EMT. It was his own family. No way. Maybe that's just me, but I'm a mom of young men.

I also wouldn't have wanted my kid to go in there in case the killers were still in the house. No way. When you're by yourself in a situation like that and adrenaline kicks in, you might do some crazy, brave, dangerous things. But when your kid is with you, all that gets directed towards protecting them.
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Honestly, I did not know that he had one of his sons was with him. If he was called by BJM to about CR1, why take the kid in the first place?! There are EMTs who have had to respond to family tragedies. It's a very sad, and unfortunate part of the job. My point is not about BJM lying, I've just never read where she stated that she'd called her brother, or anyone else, other than 911, to begin with. I think it's just been an assumption. For some reason LE was curious enough to impound JM's truck and wake BJM up in the middle of the night to re-question her. Do I think that either BJM or JM pulled any triggers? No. Do I think they may have unknowingly or knowingly provided information that they realized, much too late, that they shouldn't have provided? Very possible.

Edit: I think you may have misunderstood. Let me re-phrase. I'd meant that I'd heard that one of the Ms was an EMT and may have called the relatives, hence JM showing up and some others getting through the perimeter, and others not, b/c of that family member hearing, or being called out, to the site of the murders. I don't know if they are allowed to make those calls to alert family though. It was just a thought.

This newslink has not been opening very well for me lately but it may open for others:
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/
 
rsd1200 said:
BBM
Agree. That couple has gone ghost, and agreed, one cannot theoretically prove one's own existence (that can get into your head if you try it long and hard enough).

I also thought, for some reason, that one of the Ms was on the EMT squads. I don't know where I heard/read it and it was likely hearsay, but if it is in fact true, that person would have had advanced notice, and may have made some calls. Idk if that is kosher for them to do so, or not though. Just a thought.

How did MG see HHG, and her own mother did not? MG's mother lives closer than MG. Does she mean that MG i.d.'d the body at the morgue, or did she make it inside the perimeter? In thinking back, the perimeter was quite a distance away from the actual murder scenes. I read that HHG's grandparents raised her, for the most part, but I'd still think that a parent or grandparent would have i.d.'d the body.

I'm not saying these murders didn't happen, I'm just amazed at how it seems that everyone connected in anyway has not talked, at all. It's almost like a Stephen King novel.

On another vein :http://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...22/reader-tapped-pike-sheriffs-post/27817145/



The article reads like Reader has a lot of experience, and in different areas. I have to say that I underestimated his credentials, nonetheless I'm not sure what to make of the handling of this case.

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Junk likes to put everything into the Grand Jury to keep it secret. Then it gets buried. They send a few of the small fry to prison and the rest are safe. Seems to be a system they've been using for a long time. Everything is quiet now because of the GJ and when it's over, they'll either say "we don't know" or will pin it on a small time drug peddler or two. No one will ever see the GJ testimony or know what was revealed. As LM says, "they've been covering up this stuff for years".

The only hope is the news media. Even then, people could be getting muscled to not talk to them, too. Even LM has gone quiet; and if he isn't talking, there won't be anyone talking.

Just seems like a broken system that's been going on down there, probably for generations. Not just Pike Co, either.
 
IceIce9 said:
Great post. I just wanted to add that I'm I've been an EMT for 20 years. We always talk to someone. Husband, boyfriend, father, friend. Each of us has to have at least one person to confide in or we would go crazy. The worse the situation, the greater the need to talk it out.
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I would think that was the case....
 
IceIce9 said:
Great post. I just wanted to add that I'm I've been an EMT for 20 years. We always talk to someone. Husband, boyfriend, father, friend. Each of us has to have at least one person to confide in or we would go crazy. The worse the situation, the greater the need to talk it out.
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My sil wanted to become one, and found that she just couldn't. Not that she wasn't smart enough for the testing and strong enough for the physical part, it was the emotional part that got to her. I'm thankful for ya'll. When I crashed my m/c it was pretty far away from a major hospital and all of the ones who stopped were either off duty EMTs or nurses. They stuck with me til the local crews came.
 
Renee110 said:
Actually Stephen King novels....were full of gossip. This is Not like his novels at all... more like... I don't know what. Small towns are usually full of gossip and the locals know all. This time they aren't TELLING all... which is very telling in my book (mind). In my county which hides many secrets... they are hiding the secrets of the POWERFUL. Who the Powerful are I will let you draw your own conclusions.
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This is true. However, SK novels are weird, and this is weird. It kinda reminds me of his "Under The Dome" though. Nothing was making it outside of that town. It's like a dome has descended over Piketon, and only certain persons are permitted to speak of the Rhoden murders, and other folk's voices are filtered out by the The Dome. Only the chosen one's voices make it through the filter of The Dome.
 
Renee110 said:
I don't know...but I don't' think I would assume my sibling was dead I would be RUSHING in to save who I could... and probably would never think my sibling was dead because I would be in denial and hoping and believing they were fine. I would think after seeing dead bodies I would believe they were Okay.... I know this for a fact. I keep believing even after seeing... I guess it's denial. Whatever it is I have it.
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Yes. Especially if my 2 1/2 year old little niece may be wandering around amongst the dead bodies. Dang skippy I'd go in after her and her new little sis.
 
rsd1200 said:
Honestly, I did not know that he had one of his sons was with him. If he was called by BJM to about CR1, why take the kid in the first place?! There are EMTs who have had to respond to family tragedies. It's a very sad, and unfortunate part of the job. My point is not about BJM lying, I've just never read where she stated that she'd called her brother, or anyone else, other than 911, to begin with. I think it's just been an assumption. For some reason LE was curious enough to impound JM's truck and wake BJM up in the middle of the night to re-question her. Do I think that either BJM or JM pulled any triggers? No. Do I think they may have unknowingly or knowingly provided information that they realized, much too late, that they shouldn't have provided? Very possible.

Edit: I think you may have misunderstood. Let me re-phrase. I'd meant that I'd heard that one of the Ms was an EMT and may have called the relatives, hence JM showing up and some others getting through the perimeter, and others not, b/c of that family member hearing, or being called out, to the site of the murders. I don't know if they are allowed to make those calls to alert family though. It was just a thought.

This newslink has not been opening very well for me lately but it may open for others:
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/
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Yes, it was JM's son who was allegedly with him who has had EMT training. Not sure if he was full time EMT.

But BJM called 911 at 7:49 am. Given her description they would have called EMT's as well as deputies/patrolmen.

By 7:53 am - The first patrol car was dispatched to CRSr & FR homes. They arrived at 8:07 am and victims there were all pronounced dead at 8:07 am per death certificates.

Not sure when the second patrol car left, but they were flagged down by JM at 8:12 am at DR's home. Victims at DR's home were pronounced dead at 8:17 am - just 5 minutes.

BCI was called by deputies at 8:21 am and they've been in charge ever since.

So it was only about 20 minutes between the time that BJM made the 911 call and victims were pronounced dead by LE. That's pretty fast. Doesn't sound like anyone obstructed anything. What we know from the autopsy reports, it wasn't difficult to declare the victims dead.

I avoid trying to find lots of ways to blame the poor and powerless family members for this murder. JMO, that's just playing Junk & DeWine's game, letting the "good Christians" and big drug bosses go free.
 
rsd1200 said:
My sil wanted to become one, and found that she just couldn't. Not that she wasn't smart enough for the testing and strong enough for the physical part, it was the emotional part that got to her. I'm thankful for ya'll. When I crashed my m/c it was pretty far away from a major hospital and all of the ones who stopped were either off duty EMTs or nurses. They stuck with me til the local crews came.
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I understand this. My SIL (Son In Law) was a Paremedic now a Nurse Practitioner Msaid when he went thru EMT Training... out of a Class of 15 only 3 graduated... the ones that saw body parts lying in the road quit right then and there...
 
Betty P said:
Junk likes to put everything into the Grand Jury to keep it secret. Then it gets buried. They send a few of the small fry to prison and the rest are safe. Seems to be a system they've been using for a long time. Everything is quiet now because of the GJ and when it's over, they'll either say "we don't know" or will pin it on a small time drug peddler or two. No one will ever see the GJ testimony or know what was revealed. As LM says, "they've been covering up this stuff for years".

The only hope is the news media. Even then, people could be getting muscled to not talk to them, too. Even LM has gone quiet; and if he isn't talking, there won't be anyone talking.

Just seems like a broken system that's been going on down there, probably for generations. Not just Pike Co, either.
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No, it's not. It's in every little community in this country. It's right here where I live. When I was in my runnin' days I knew quite a bit of who did what and where, but it was the penny ante folks who got busted, week after week after week, but if pops had some cash, and they had a kid who went into a shady line of work, they left them alone.
 
Betty P said:
Yes, it was JM's son who was allegedly with him who has had EMT training. Not sure if he was full time EMT.

But BJM called 911 at 7:49 am. Given her description they would have called EMT's as well as deputies/patrolmen.

By 7:53 am - The first patrol car was dispatched to CRSr & FR homes. They arrived at 8:07 am and victims there were all pronounced dead at 8:07 am per death certificates.

Not sure when the second patrol car left, but they were flagged down by JM at 8:12 am at DR's home. Victims at DR's home were pronounced dead at 8:17 am - just 5 minutes.

BCI was called by deputies at 8:21 am and they've been in charge ever since.

So it was only about 20 minutes between the time that BJM made the 911 call and victims were pronounced dead by LE. That's pretty fast. Doesn't sound like anyone obstructed anything. What we know from the autopsy reports, it wasn't difficult to declare the victims dead.

I avoid trying to find lots of ways to blame the poor and powerless family members for this murder. JMO, that's just playing Junk & DeWine's game, letting the "good Christians" and big drug bosses go free.
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BBM
I have looked at this thing six ways from Sunday, every day since April 22nd, when it broke down this way. I've said this many times on here, I've lived, and worked, in Appalachia, my entire life. The majority of it was working in non-profit for those who may not be as fortunate as others. I get my hackles up when folks start going after the poor and the powerless. That was not my intent at all. Unfortunately, murder, like drug abuse, knows no boundaries. People kill kin, friends, strangers, spouses... As far as the victims go, I have known people very similar to them, throughout my life. I don't see them as bad people at all and don't really think they were doing any more than growing a little weed, to supplement their income (if they were into anything bigger, I'll be surprised). I do think that it is possible that they could have gotten caught up into something with a close connection who they'd been friends with and ultimately tried to back away. That's just one of my side theories.
 
rsd1200 said:
BBM
I have looked at this thing six ways from Sunday, every day since April 22nd, when it broke down this way. I've said this many times on here, I've lived, and worked, in Appalachia, my entire life. The majority of it was working in non-profit for those who may not be as fortunate as others. I get my hackles up when folks start going after the poor and the powerless. That was not my intent at all. Unfortunately, murder, like drug abuse, knows no boundaries. People kill kin, friends, strangers, spouses... As far as the victims go, I have known people very similar to them, throughout my life. I don't see them as bad people at all and don't really think they were doing any more than growing a little weed, to supplement their income (if they were into anything bigger, I'll be surprised). I do think that it is possible that they could have gotten caught up into something with a close connection who they'd been friends with and ultimately tried to back away. That's just one of my side theories.
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I understand where you're coming from and agree.
 
Renee110 said:
I understand this. My SIL (Son In Law) was a Paremedic now a Nurse Practitioner Msaid when he went thru EMT Training... out of a Class of 15 only 3 graduated... the ones that saw body parts lying in the road quit right then and there...
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That must be a pretty common practice... one of my good friends went thru EMS training before going to school to become a physician's assistant. She wanted experience with emergency situations before she applied. I doubt if there's a better suited profession to give one that kind of experience (aside from working in an ER or trauma center). I definitely couldn't do it. EMTs are real life superheroes, if you ask me.


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I'm trying to just copy and paste a link but it keeps posting the video. A city councilman in an Ohio city may propose that people who overdose for the third time not get treated.

[video=cnn;health/2014/08/26/orig-am-animation-brain-on-heroin-sanjay-gupta.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/health/ohio-overdose-proposal-trnd/index.html[/video]
 
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]PUBLISHED: 06/28/17 11:57 AM EDT.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]UPDATED: 06/28/17 06:25 PM EDT.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]WAVERLY, Ohio[/FONT] — A family who Ohio authorities have called the "special focus" of an investigation into the slayings of eight members of a different family say they are being harassed by the state attorney general's office despite their cooperation.
The family's attorney, John Kearson Clark, told the Cincinnati Enquirer on Tuesday that the four Wagner family members provided laptops, phones and DNA samples to investigators, and agreed to be interviewed about the Rhoden family slayings in Pike County in April 2016.
The Wagner family lived in Peebles, Ohio, at the time of the killings but recently moved to Alaska.
"The authorities (using the media) want the public to believe that the Wagners are responsible and have absconded," Clark told the newspaper. "If that were true, why would the Wagners have come forward on their own and agreed to give whatever limited information they had?"
Clark said the family is being "harassed while the real killer or killers are out there."
Last week, Attorney General Mike DeWine and Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader issued a statement asking for information about the Wagners and included driver's license photos of George "Billy" Wagner III, his wife, Angela, and their two adult sons, George and Edward "Jake". DeWine wouldn't say this week why investigators are focusing on the Wagners, the newspaper reported. The release said investigators wanted to hear from people who had conversations with the Wagners, including information about vehicles, firearms and ammunition.
The Wagners have denied any involvement in the shooting deaths of Christopher Rhoden Sr., 40; his wife, Dana Manley Rhoden, 37; his children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden, 20; Hanna Rhoden, 19; Christopher Rhoden Jr., 16; his brother, Kenneth Rhoden, 44; cousin Gary Rhoden, 38; and Frankie Rhoden's fiancee, Hannah Gilley, 20.
Angela Wagner has said her husband and Christopher Rhoden Sr. were more like brothers than friends. Jake Wagner was once Hanna Rhoden's boyfriend and shared custody of their 3-year-old daughter at the time of the massacre.
Investigators earlier this month searched the Wagners' farm in Peebles, a farm owned by Billy Wagner's father, and the family's packed belongings for the move to Alaska. The family was in Alaska during the searches.
Authorities suspect there were multiple attackers who were familiar with the Rhodens' homes and the surrounding area. The motive behind the April 22, 2016, killings remains a mystery



[/FONT]
 
RAISINISBACK said:
BBM

Okay I am going to go ahead and beat this dead horse for a minute.

To add to the strangeness of this crime, there has been no quote from an anonymous source. Remember the anonymous source in every crime? The fellow who doesn't want to be named because they are not authorized to talk about the crime? There is one or two in every single crime. But not this one.

There were hundreds of LE and EMS personal involved in this crime. Not a single one has talked, anonymous or otherwise. Out of all these hundreds of LE and EMS some of them are married. Not one quote by a spouse telling what their other half went through e.g. therapy or counseling.

Not a peep out of the morgue where the bodies were taken, not a peep out of the funeral homes describing what it was like to deal with that many bodies at once.

Not a peep out of anyone who was on the scene and saw the actual blood in the trailers other than BJM.

Trailers locked up tight from the minute the R's were found, with absolutely no public view.

I guess what I am getting at is no one besides LE other than BJM and DS has actually made a statement about seeing the bodies. The two people with her seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth as far as making a statement goes.

Maybe instead of speculating about who the killers are we should first try to prove there was even a murder.

This reminds me of my college days when we were given an assignment to prove our own existence. It is theoretically impossible to prove your own existence.
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EMS and first responders cannot discuss what they witnessed with patients without breaking federal laws on confidentiality. Federal confidentiality rules begin with the patient's conception and extend beyond their death. There are very expensive penalties for violating HIPAA.

HIPAA Violation Penalty Structure

Each category of violation carries a separate HIPAA penalty. It is up to the discretion of the OCR to determine a financial penalty within the appropriate range. The OCR considers a number of factors when determining penalties, such as the length of time a violation was allowed to persist, the number of people affected and the nature of the data exposed. An organization´s willingness to assist with an OCR investigation is also taken into account.
The general factors that can affect the level of financial penalty also include prior history, the organization’s financial condition and the level of harm caused by the violation. These factors could decrease or increase the financial penalty issued.


The Pathologist is subject to HIIPAA rules as well as the morgue technicians. Gossiping about the victims and then being fined $50,000 is just not worth it.
 
pearl said:
I'm trying to just copy and paste a link but it keeps posting the video. A city councilman in an Ohio city may propose that people who overdose for the third time not get treated.

[video=cnn;health/2014/08/26/orig-am-animation-brain-on-heroin-sanjay-gupta.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/health/ohio-overdose-proposal-trnd/index.html[/video]
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That was being reported all day today on WLW news. They referred to it as, "Three strikes and you're out."
 
pearl said:
I'm trying to just copy and paste a link but it keeps posting the video. A city councilman in an Ohio city may propose that people who overdose for the third time not get treated.

[video=cnn;health/2014/08/26/orig-am-animation-brain-on-heroin-sanjay-gupta.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/health/ohio-overdose-proposal-trnd/index.html[/video]
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That is in Hamilton, Ohio. He says revive them with Narcan twice with a chance to get rehabilitated. If called a third time, they don't get Narcan. If I remember right they are on line to spend $100,000 on Narcan this year.
In a similar story, Dayton, Ohio has revived a guy with Narcan 20 times....
T
 
Dudly said:
That is in Hamilton, Ohio. He says revive them with Narcan twice with a chance to get rehabilitated. If called a third time, they don't get Narcan. If I remember right they are on line to spend $100,000 on Narcan this year.
In a similar story, Dayton, Ohio has revived a guy with Narcan 20 times....
T
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Politicians practicing medicine without a license again. He'll probably be unable to find any health care professionals to go along with that, unless the patient has signed a DNR order.
 
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